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Posted: 7/2/2015 8:30:02 PM EDT
I've never owned or used night vision, but I'm really interested in buying one. My budget right now is around $2500, and I think that allows me to get a PVS-14.

My question is... how quickly does night vision technology advance? Will the PVS-14 be outdated in the next couple of years?
What upgrade potential does the PVS-14 have? I can only afford one right now, but I think binocular night vision would be more detailed and easier to use and navigate with than night vision for a single eye. Is it easy to add a second PVS-14 down the road?

Really appreciate any help you guys can give me. It's a lot of money for me to spend on something that's not a rifle haha.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 8:48:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 8:49:35 PM EDT
[#2]
All depends on the future prices as to if it's a good investment for resale. Now for the job it does, it's excellent.
If you needed to see at night pvs 14 is the tool for the job. To find critters thermal is the tool. It's about what it's worth to you.
Longer you own it lower cost per year avg.
I have had mine 4 yrs, cost per year $625.
Each year cost avgs lower, keep in mind I use mine
it's not a safe queen.
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 8:50:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Absolutely!!!! Get a PVS 14 don't settle for less the advantage is priceless.

I personally don't like dual tubes as it ruins your nighteye and there heavy but they give better depth perception

guys purchase a dozen guns they can't carry for a shtf scenario yet never drop the $$$$ on quality NVD's when the powers out and everything is pitch black you can own the night.A pvs 14 is a passive unit allowing you to not beam IR light everywhere screaming look at me I'm right here and there's a plethora of aftermarket accessories. It's the most widely used NVD in military use and it will be supported I imagine for the next 10-20 years there's parts everywhere to work on them from ebay to many good NV suppliers. I would take a basic AR and IR laser and a PVS 14 over any high end gun with gadgets that are out there.

I'm sure someone with way more knowledge will be along shortly and give you some better advice but I strongly recommend a PVS 14

Also yes they make a bridge so you can dual mount PVS 14's for better depth perception or so you can detach one and share it with a buddy

I would strongly recommend buying a factory built unit by a good mfg such as TNVC also of course you can get great deals on like new units in the Equipment Exchange in the Nightvision section go take a look

Link Posted: 7/2/2015 8:57:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks fellas! You guys have me itching to pull the trigger this week on one. Leaning towards TNVC right now. I found out they have some Blemish models for about $200 less than their regular ones... they worth it? Or are they like dead pixels on a TV where you keep staring at it lol.

I'm also a bit worried about hidden costs of ownership. How much would I expect to pay for a helmet/mount for it? I think I remember reading about the ATPIAL-C being the go to IR laser, and I think those are $1200?
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 9:03:52 PM EDT
[#5]
You can get a ITAL or OTAL civilian legal IR I've seen them for $420 to 500$ built like a tank

My personal fav lasers are the DBAL and CQBL-1 civilian models they can be had around 480$-700 depends on the color laser and when/where you buy it

You can always trade or buy one down the line

As for helmets there a bunch of options

I have a mich/ach I bought for 99$ added a standard mich strap and plate for 30$ and a rhino arm 20$

My personal fav is the PT bravo high cuts I think there 79$ then a ops core vas /skeleton/or Wilcox shroud about $60

Whatever you do get a lanyard or dummy cord it with paracord or something don't accidentally drop your expensive NVD

If you check the EE nightvision section or eBay you can get a decent working helmet set up cheap stay away from Airsoft mounts and helmets though trust me on that
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 9:40:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 2:14:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Investment-wise, I doubt the PVS-14 is going to "go out of style" in the foreseeable future, even if it might not be "top of the line."  

The PVS-14 is versatile and effective, and there are a lot of them out there - duals are coming down in price slowly but surely - but there's still a solid contingent who prefer monoculars.  

As for whether or not it's going to be worth it for you -

Yes, you could make, and I don't necessarily disagree with the arguments about capabilities when it comes to "SHTF," but really - what's going to make or break whether or not you personally feel like they're going to be worth it for you is really going to come down to a question of how often you're going to get to use them to do something other than simply walk around in your back-yard with them.  

At the end of the end of the day - do you tend to go to bed early?  Or do you like doing stuff late into the night?  More simply - ask yourself how your day-job and your nocturnal activities are going to co-exist?  Do you have the time and energy to be playing around at night on a semi-regular basis?  

Do you have access to land where you can shoot or hunt at night?  Remember - it's not just land that you need - but some areas have different ordinances about times you can shoot, neighbors might be less positively disposed towards night shooting versus daytime shooting, etc.  

Can you realistically and honestly imagine yourself doing anything else with NVGs?  Whether it be night ATV-riding, hiking, astronomy, etc. - not stuff that you think "might be cool" but will never actually do - but stuff that you know for a fact you would do, but if only you could see better at night?  

If your answer to one or more of those questions was "yes," chances are you will find a set of PVS-14s to be a more than worthwhile investment - and moreover - NV might become a dangerous and expensive addiction that can very quickly surpass even the worst of BRD, NFA addiction, or even European glass addiction - realize that post-PVS-14s, you're getting into the ~$5,000 minimum to play range.  

However - if, in an honest assessment - the above does not apply to you, or you're not sure - the purchase of NVDs might end up being expensive and anti-climactic, mitigated only by the fact that you can probably recover a decent chunk of your investment as long as you don't overpay on the front-end.  

As for "upgrade potential" - PVS-14s in and of themselves don't have a whole lot - you can add a magnifier, filters, focus caps, etc. but really at the end of the day, a PVS-14 will be a PVS-14 will be a PVS-14.  

That being said - you have a couple of options if you want to upgrade to different systems later on down the road.  The simplest solution, of course would be to simply buy another PVS-14, and use one of the many bridge mounts available, and bridge them into a set of very functional, albeit quite heavy binoculars.  

At the same time - the image intensifier tube (the "heart" of the night vision device - and really what you're paying the high price for) in the PVS-14 can be used in a variety of other NVDs, with several readily available conversion options available.  Moreover - most of them will also use the objective and eyepiece lenses from your PVS-14s as well, meaning that you can re-use most of the major functional (and expensive) parts of your PVS-14 when you later decide to/can afford to upgrade.  

The AB Night Vision MOD-3s, the NV Depot BNVDs, and the Adams Industries Sentinels can all be "built" using PVS-14 components.  

Personally, I prefer duals by a pretty wide margin, but as I've alluded to, there's a number of folks here who prefer monoculars for some or all of their NV uses.  There've been quite a few discussions on the topic that you can read through on the pros and cons of duals versus monoculars.  

Blemishes tend not be a huge deal to me - but to some, they can be quite distracting - at the end of the day, though - you should be focusing on what you are seeing - not on the specs in your FOV, if that makes any sense.  Are you the type of person who gets fixated on specs of dust in optics, or other kinds of image imperfections?  Or one that tends to "take the whole scene in?"  

There are several good options in the IR laser market - personally, I prefer ones with onboard illuminators and slaved visible lasers, so the ATPIAL-C and DBAL-A3 are my "frontrunners" - but I also run a LaserMax UNI-IR, which is a very simplistic, "no-frills" IR laser only unit, and very affordable to boot - which laser you want/need will largely be a function of what kind of shooting you're doing, and matching features to requirements.  

~Augee
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 5:03:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Augee brings up several good points

Where do you live are you a night owl ect ?

I wanted a PVS 14 for shtf scenario where I live in Louisiana hurricanes roll in knock out the power I live on 10 acres right out of city limits by about 100ft

I've been in situations where looting and trespassing to steal gas , food ect are a very real thing

Once I went without power 2 weeks several of my neighbors houses were broken in to and when the power drops out its black

I also have 2 sons and I have coyotes , armadillos ,racoons, possums ect that sneak under my carport and destroy my property

My night kills went through the roof when I acquired my PVS 14

I also work rotation and  I'm off for weeks at a time so I'm always up late at night on the prowl

If you live in the city or suburbs you might not find yourself using it very much and it will be bittersweet

I have also caught people on the prowl on my property I have a 200 yard driveway one way in one way out

My front lots empty and people seem to think its a good chill spot so I like to look down there often it's nice having a super power that pierces the darkness

The thing about 2 eyes for me is if your dual unit breaks , goes out , for whatever reason neither eye will be adapted to the darkness you can not see anything hardly if you've had it on for prolonged use its almost painful trying to make out anything with your eyes

I also found if my laser craps out goes dead it's much easier transitioning to use my aimpoint with a monocular than with binos

I can transition to my aimpoint instantly after practicing

I have some binos but I honestly don't need depth perception as much as my extra night eye and the ability to transition

If I were climbing , or driving or doing something ALOT which requires depth perception I would opt for binos

I'm in Southern Louisiana though and I won't be climbing anything

So evaluate what you want it for and why and can you justify the cost

For me in a shtf hurricane scenario my PVS 14 is invaluable to my property and families protection

Link Posted: 7/3/2015 11:27:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I've never owned or used night vision, but I'm really interested in buying one. They are awesome, fun for people like me who are not Mil/LE nor do i hunt, still fun to have.

My budget right now is around $2500, and I think that allows me to get a PVS-14. That will get you a gently used one. I looked casually for about a year and ended up buying one for $1500 on craigslist, the housing was beat up but the tube itself was fine and for as often as i use it im ok with that.

My question is... how quickly does night vision technology advance? it does advance but not as quickly as say smart phones. Im no teir one operator but the big thing they use in the mil now (that you cant buy) is hybrid that combines NV with Thermal. I have also heard in the future digital NV will replace that.

Will the PVS-14 be outdated in the next couple of years? not int he next 5 years, maybe in 10+ but thats a long ways off

What upgrade potential does the PVS-14 have? I can only afford one right now, but I think binocular night vision would be more detailed and easier to use and navigate with than night vision for a single eye. Is it easy to add a second PVS-14 down the road? Yes you can bridge two PVS-14 together to make binoculars, but a PVS-15 i would be lighter and not need to be controlled separately. Honestly though, as a civilian a PVS-14 will more than fill your needs. Ive never tried a binocular NV setup but i can maneuver and shoot just fine with a monocular.

Really appreciate any help you guys can give me. It's a lot of money for me to spend on something that's not a rifle haha. Yes it is a lot of money, but people spend $1,000 on scopes and all kind of accessories and have dozens of guns in a safe totally tens of thousands of dollars but get upset over the price of NV. Imagine its 3am, you hear the window being broke you wake and run to your closet, would you rather open the door and find a dozen AR15s or 1 AR15 and body armor, NV, medical kid, NV goggles, etc...you can only shoot one gun at a time.  
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/5/2015 6:32:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks fellas for all the advice!
I'm 90% sold on the idea now, and I just need to move some funds around. That said... what's a better deal?

This one at $2945?

Or this BLEM model for $2749?

I'm doing a lot of research, but I still can't fully understand the difference between the Gen 3 OMNI and the Gen3 Pinnacle.
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 10:19:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 10:26:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Might want to look at this one in EE. It is a TNVC L3 Omni VIII unit still under warrantee. (not mine, just pointing out a nice opportunity:) http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_172/1445093_TNV_PVS_14_GEN_3_L3_OMNI_VIII_4_5_year_warranty__PRICE_REDUCED__2500.html

JPK
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 11:17:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Take a hard look at Rich's shop at nightvision2go.com.

I buy stuff from the arf sponsors too, they're great. Even so nightvision2go.com has unbeatable deals on 14s with brand new tubes and they even honor a 1 year warranty now. I personally have never heard a report of a brand new tube going bad.
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 11:44:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Take a hard look at Rich's shop at nightvision2go.com.

I buy stuff from the arf sponsors too, they're great. Even so nightvision2go.com has unbeatable deals on 14s with brand new tubes and they even honor a 1 year warranty now. I personally have never heard a report of a brand new tube going bad.
View Quote


It's rare. I've never seen it personally, even on a used tube but it does happen, just not as often as some retailers would have you believe. I've repotted some brand new tubes that had the psu fail. With the warranty Richard includes the price can't be beat.

Link Posted: 7/5/2015 5:11:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Wow! Thanks for the huge tip on nightvision2go.com
With the 1 year warranty, I think I'm going to wait until next month to order myself one. Have enough for one now... but I think I'll have to buy an ATPIAL-C and a Team Wendy exfil ballistic helmet while the 20% sale is going on.
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 6:12:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 6:57:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Investment...heck no. Electronics are never an investment. That said, if you want one buy one.
Link Posted: 7/5/2015 9:47:45 PM EDT
[#18]
I wouldn't buy one with the expectation that it will go up in value.  Wait for a smoking deal on a decent used one or for a sale on a new one.  If you can get into a new one for ~$2400-$2500 then you're doing well. It's still not likely to increase in value, though.  I'm pretty anal about spending very little on things that depreciate, but for me gen 3 NV has been a must have item for close to ten years now.  It's just like a silencer, once you've had one you don't want to ever not have one ever again.  Overall, it's not really an investment so much as a "necessity" that is useful and doesn't depreciate much while you own it.
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 6:23:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks fellas for all the advice!
I'm 90% sold on the idea now, and I just need to move some funds around. That said... what's a better deal?

This one at $2945?

Or this BLEM model for $2749?

I'm doing a lot of research, but I still can't fully understand the difference between the Gen 3 OMNI and the Gen3 Pinnacle.
View Quote



Either one will serve you well.

the blemished tubes are probably going to be better tubes than you would get off the shelf from other dealers online or about the same, so you cant go wrong with them.

That being said if you are a perfectionist like myself, where every little thing will bug you whats another $200 to get an absolute spotless tube when you are already spending 3k.

my dad always told me, it just costs a little more to go first class.


ETA: "OMNI" is just the classification for the tube, or a grade of the performance. Pinnacle is the actual maker of the tube.
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 7:33:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Either one will serve you well.

the blemished tubes are probably going to be better tubes than you would get off the shelf from other dealers online or about the same, so you cant go wrong with them.

That being said if you are a perfectionist like myself, where every little thing will bug you whats another $200 to get an absolute spotless tube when you are already spending 3k.

my dad always told me, it just costs a little more to go first class.


ETA: "OMNI" is just the classification for the tube, or a grade of the performance. Pinnacle is the actual maker of the tube.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks fellas for all the advice!
I'm 90% sold on the idea now, and I just need to move some funds around. That said... what's a better deal?

This one at $2945?

Or this BLEM model for $2749?

I'm doing a lot of research, but I still can't fully understand the difference between the Gen 3 OMNI and the Gen3 Pinnacle.



Either one will serve you well.

the blemished tubes are probably going to be better tubes than you would get off the shelf from other dealers online or about the same, so you cant go wrong with them.

That being said if you are a perfectionist like myself, where every little thing will bug you whats another $200 to get an absolute spotless tube when you are already spending 3k.

my dad always told me, it just costs a little more to go first class.


ETA: "OMNI" is just the classification for the tube, or a grade of the performance. Pinnacle is the actual maker of the tube.



Pinnacle is a trademarked top of the line tube made by ITT Excelis


Link Posted: 7/6/2015 7:42:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Investment...heck no. Electronics are never an investment. That said, if you want one buy one.
View Quote


Electronics are an investment in my families future and wellbeing not to mention my property

I.E: a computer is an investment in my kids knowledge computers are a critical skill in this day n age whether we like it or not
Also I would not have my PVS 14 or half my others tools/toys without it

Nightvision is a investment in protecting my property , family ect

It is not an investment such as your 401k it IS a investment none the less guess it depends on how you view it

Yes all electronics depreciate in value as do cars ect but they  are a investment in ones future

If I can't get to work I'm screwed without a car

If I can't see the 3 low life's  creeping up because I'm without power for a week or 2 while they rob me blind I'm probably screwed

On 10 acres pitch black it's hard to monitor your property and I HAVE got the jump on individuals with my nightvision within the first week of owning it
Nice being able to call the cops without giving away you have spotted them

They were trying to to jack parts off a broke down Volvo S80 in the front of my property


Link Posted: 7/6/2015 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 8:41:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In the classic sense, no: night vision is not an investment.  In an esoteric sense, sure: it is.  But neither is a reason to buy it.  If you have a use that you can quantify or qualify to yourself, then it is a good purchase.

The PVS-14 is the standard issue NVG for the US DoD and will continue to be for the next 8 years or so.  Obviously this depends on the military's budget.  If the past 5 years have been any indication, image tubes are not going to come down in price.  In fact, they are going up every year and we are having to fight to keep our prices down.  Yeah, I know there are plenty of you saying that $3K for an NVG is not "keeping prices down," but it's all relative.  The truth of the matter is this: you will most likely not get what you paid for it if you ever decided to sell your PVS-14.  The real metric is whether or not it meets your wants and needs while you have it.  

Binocular NVG's will not be any more detailed than monocualrs.  They are use, essentially, the same tubes with the same overall performance.  It's easy enough to add a second PVS-14 to the first and creat bino system down the road.  And, there are a plethora of accessories for the PVS-14 being that it's the standard issue goggle.
View Quote



Well spoken !!! Listen to clasky I've been reading / watching his stuff on YouTube for years he knows his shit !!!

When I first got into NVD his videos helped me understand what the heck I was looking at thanks for making them !
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 8:44:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Three factors played a big role in my expenditures on NV gear.
One is the longevity of the equipment. Today's thermal and IR night vision lasts a good long time. I do NOT have to ration my use of it or baby the devices.
Second is the fact that it is dark half the time.
Third was my decision to spend the money while money had the buying power and I could afford the stuff. The value of money can change relative to world currencies, but it's mostly irrelevant, because the NV gear I get is US made. So, for me, it is Dollars from start to finish and inflation and other monetary factors could drive the price out of my reach.

When I bought my PVS-14 I got it through Clasky at TNVC. He took good care to help me get the model best suited to my needs.
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 11:26:56 PM EDT
[#25]

TAG

This thread is relevant to my interests!
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 6:52:34 AM EDT
[#26]
If this is something you are going to use frequently, I would say buy new, with a full warranty. If you will use this sparingly, then there is almost no reason to buy new, when your warranty will likely waste away while in the closet.

You can buy 2 used Gen 3 devices for the price of 1 new device, and valleyrat is right, these units seldom go down - even used ones. While it does happen on rare occasion, most of the failures I have seen were damage from being dropped and it is generally the tube's internal power supply that fails, which is about $500 to fix from AEOptics. I've also seen damage from recoil, and laser burns, too, but you can typically see that damage when you look through the tube in various lighting conditions.

As for how long will this technology last? I would say any generation 3 tube from omni 3 and newer are highly usable. Omni 3 spec tubes were new about 25 years ago. About 10 years ago, the specs took a turn for the worse due to manufacturing costs, so some of the best tubes came out from 2003 a 2006. That isn't to say there aren't amazing new tubes, but you generally pay for hand picked high spec tubes that are new.

If cost is a concern, you can always shop around for a used Gen 3 device that isn't a pvs-14, but takes pvs-14 accessories and mounts - like a AB Micro, or a Pitbull or something along those lines. You can typically find those for $1200-$1500 used on the EE.

If you have questions, ask - this community is awesome, and we have great vendor support in here, so if you want to buy new, they can help kit you out and answer all of your questions.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 8:06:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 9:03:24 AM EDT
[#28]
Back in 2006, I got the urge to buy NV and started doing as much research as I could.  The problem was that there was not a whole lot available on the intraweb like there is today, and local expertise was virtually non-existent.

I found an AN/PVS-14D for sale on the EE from an essentially unknown guy out in California named Vic.  I asked him as many questions as I could think of, and he answered them all, as well as a few more that I hadn't thought of.  I felt comfortable enough and made the purchase even though $3500 was a whole lot of money to spend mostly on faith.  The biggest reassurance I got was when he offered a return guarantee if I wasn't happy, something like 7 days if I remember correctly.

Fast forward 9 years, and that "guy" has developed a very reputable NV business, and was the primary lobbyist to arfcom staff to get this dedicated sub-forum established.  I also use that OMNI IV PVS-14 routinely, and feel as though it performs as well or better than my OMNI VII Night Enforcer even though the data sheet specs on the latter are a bit better.

This is not a plug for a particular vendor per se, but rather the PVS-14 itself.  I have not babied mine at all and it still works just as well as day 1, although I would not recommend driving nails with it or looking directly at the sun for extended periods.  In my experience, these devices are much less delicate than some folks might might think; let's face it, Uncle Sam puts them in the hands of grunts in battle... no disrespect intended to any of our warfighters.

Prices on I^2 declined a couple hundred bucks a few years back due to the .mil downsizing and greater prevalence of a "cottage industry" of folks assembling devices from parts versus predominantly factory units, but they have essentially been quite stable for as long as I have been fooling with this stuff.  Thermal devices on the other hand seem to almost become "obsolete" the day after they are purchased consistent with the nature of comparatively rapid advances in digital electronics technology.

A PVS-14 is arguably the most versatile device currently available, and therefore makes a great foundation to nearly anyone's kit for activity in the dark.  By my interpretation, depreciable assets are not "investments" in the strictest sense of the term, but as has been stated certain depreciable assets are either necessary for one's routine existence and/or quality of life.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 9:45:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Thanks fellas! You've convinced me! By investment, I meant that would the PVS14 be obsolete within the next 4-5 years due to advancements in technology. If they get updated as often as iPhones, I'd just wait another year or two before jumping in.


What does one need to get a PVS-14 connected to a Team Wendy ballistic helmet? A little confusing figuring that part out.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 10:12:02 AM EDT
[#30]
You should contact TNVC they can help you figure out what you need and can recommend the best mounting options just let them know your price range

Also if you have not looked at there site go take a peek most of the info is already there
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 10:53:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Your team Wendy has a built in shroud, so you can skip that portion. You will just need to worry about the mount and arm/adapter. The mount snaps into your team Wendy shroud and the arms snaps into the mount. There are two types of these you will run into, bayonet and dovetail which are the interface parts that snap into one another.

There are a lot of options it's true, but here's my opinion on it.

If you want to go inexpensive but still effective, get a rhino 2. I have no experience with the original rhino but I hear it is wobbly and not a very tight fit so avoid that. rhino 2 can be found on ebay for cheap . This eBay one comes with a cheap shroud you can just toss aside since you have one already on your TW.

You will need a bayonet style arm to go with it. The standard "j arm" you should be able to buy for next to nothing on eBay. If you buy a new fully warrantied pvs14 from TNVC or UNV it will come with one of these j arm adapters.

If you want the best of the best, your going to want a dovetail mount. this INVG mount is considered one the sturdiest on the market from what I've seen. Along with that you need an adapter.This dual adapter does what a j arm style does but is considered sturdier.

Those are the options I would use if you are going to just use a single monocular. You also should think if you want to maybe go with dual tubes at some point. A lot of people do end up bridging two pvs 14 together to make a binocular style system. the Aka2 is a great choice for this set up, it will also work really well for a monocular or single pvs14 like you plan on getting. So this may be the best way to go because you will be happy with it if you go binocular or if you stick with just the single tube. It comes with separate interchangeable interfaceso whichever arm you get, bayonet or dovetail, you can use it. I use this mount for my dual tubes and love it.

I probably just made this more confusing than it already was . Good luck on choosing man and have fun with your first vision.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 11:10:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 12:01:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Best suggestion: Find someone on the NV forum who is local to you and try on their helmet setup. The popular "budget" helmet seems to be the Team Wendy Exfil LTP. You can run less expensive helmets, but you'll need to customize them more to meet your needs. This goes for mounts, too. Buying and trying gets real expensive, real fast.

If you think you will use this type of device sparingly, you could also look at a new production Gen 2+ option, which is also a very solid choice. You will sacrifice some extreme low light performance, but you might end up with higher SNR and LP/MM (resolution) which are good things. New production Gen 2+ is far beyond the old Gen 2/2+ gear from the mid-late 80's.

I've traded away all my "milspec" PVS-14 gear and run an AB Night Vision MOD-3 setup, and it meets my needs perfectly fine. I am a tinkerer, so I never wanted or needed a warranty. Since I'm just shopping for parts and not a complete relationship, I'm driven by price-point, more-so than vendor loyalty.

As a result, I'm into a dual tube Binocular setup for about the same cost as what a single PVS-14 monocular runs from TNVC. Granted, my device might die tomorrow, and I lack a spec sheet. I also built, purged, and collimated my own unit. TNVC and the other vendors also pay a lot of $ for brand new tubes from the OEM. The equipment they use for testing tubes, and setting up devices is extremely expensive - there's a lot of overhead involved. Some of my tubes are from a defunct military contractor, so my savings are only because that original contractor paid the upfront cost and absorbed all the loss. When Apex was selling dirt cheap PVS-14's that came back from SOC-USA they were only able to sell them cheap because someone else absorbed the loss (SOC-USA).

I really wish there was a new production Gen 2+ monocular that takes PVS-14 accessories in the $1500 price-point with a 1yr warranty. That device could have a commercial housing, with mil-spec glass. If it was easily bridgeable / upgradable, that would also be a huge bonus. I think that pricepoint would disrupt the used sales of Gen 3 devices, and tubes quite a bit. I hope the vendors are listening, but I'm not sure if that price even leaves a profit margin after tube / housing / warranty costs.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 12:09:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 12:27:41 PM EDT
[#35]
I bought a PVS-14 system with all the goodies, and I bought a thermal sight at the same time.



I took a financial hit and had to decide which of the two I would keep.  I still have the PVS-14.



It killed me to have to give up the thermal (because it's really cool...) but the NV is just more versatile, IMHO.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 12:48:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I bought a PVS-14 system with all the goodies, and I bought a thermal sight at the same time.

I took a financial hit and had to decide which of the two I would keep.  I still have the PVS-14.

It killed me to have to give up the thermal (because it's really cool...) but the NV is just more versatile, IMHO.
View Quote


And usually much cheaper than thermal
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 12:51:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I bought a PVS-14 system with all the goodies, and I bought a thermal sight at the same time.

I took a financial hit and had to decide which of the two I would keep.  I still have the PVS-14.

It killed me to have to give up the thermal (because it's really cool...) but the NV is just more versatile, IMHO.
View Quote


It pains me to say this but I would have done the same, the NV does a lot more things for fewer $$$ tied up (4x less).  I wouldn't want to be w/o the thermal, but not having a gen 3 would be bordering on unthinkable at this point.
Link Posted: 7/11/2015 4:29:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Got mine 6+ years ago maybe.  Not really sure.  Might be a few more than that.



Was not sure about who to buy from so bought a new setup from tnvc who was advertising on here.



Expected the thing to be passed up and left for old hat by now, but not so.



It is quality enough it works for me and would just wind up as a weapons mounted setup if something else came along that made it old hat.



Still have the old ir flashlight that tnvc had at that time, not sure if that has changed up or not but I don't use mine much so I don't worry about it.



I am still building around mine with odds and ends, going to step up to a decent/high quality helmet by fall.
Link Posted: 7/11/2015 7:49:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Best you'll get for the cheapest price: Gen2  http://www.nightgoggles.com/shop/night-vision-monoculars/ngipvs-14-gen-2-comspec/
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Best suggestion: Find someone on the NV forum who is local to you and try on their helmet setup. The popular "budget" helmet seems to be the Team Wendy Exfil LTP. You can run less expensive helmets, but you'll need to customize them more to meet your needs. This goes for mounts, too. Buying and trying gets real expensive, real fast.

If you think you will use this type of device sparingly, you could also look at a new production Gen 2+ option, which is also a very solid choice. You will sacrifice some extreme low light performance, but you might end up with higher SNR and LP/MM (resolution) which are good things. New production Gen 2+ is far beyond the old Gen 2/2+ gear from the mid-late 80's.

I've traded away all my "milspec" PVS-14 gear and run an AB Night Vision MOD-3 setup, and it meets my needs perfectly fine. I am a tinkerer, so I never wanted or needed a warranty. Since I'm just shopping for parts and not a complete relationship, I'm driven by price-point, more-so than vendor loyalty.

As a result, I'm into a dual tube Binocular setup for about the same cost as what a single PVS-14 monocular runs from TNVC. Granted, my device might die tomorrow, and I lack a spec sheet. I also built, purged, and collimated my own unit. TNVC and the other vendors also pay a lot of $ for brand new tubes from the OEM. The equipment they use for testing tubes, and setting up devices is extremely expensive - there's a lot of overhead involved. Some of my tubes are from a defunct military contractor, so my savings are only because that original contractor paid the upfront cost and absorbed all the loss. When Apex was selling dirt cheap PVS-14's that came back from SOC-USA they were only able to sell them cheap because someone else absorbed the loss (SOC-USA).

I really wish there was a new production Gen 2+ monocular that takes PVS-14 accessories in the $1500 price-point with a 1yr warranty. That device could have a commercial housing, with mil-spec glass. If it was easily bridgeable / upgradable, that would also be a huge bonus. I think that pricepoint would disrupt the used sales of Gen 3 devices, and tubes quite a bit. I hope the vendors are listening, but I'm not sure if that price even leaves a profit margin after tube / housing / warranty costs.



Best you'll get for the cheapest price: Gen2  http://www.nightgoggles.com/shop/night-vision-monoculars/ngipvs-14-gen-2-comspec/



The pictures on your website aren't very flattering for the com spec they look worse then the 700 apex ps14s
Link Posted: 7/12/2015 11:16:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 7/12/2015 10:13:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The pictures on your website aren't very flattering for the com spec they look worse then the 700 apex ps14s
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Best suggestion: Find someone on the NV forum who is local to you and try on their helmet setup. The popular "budget" helmet seems to be the Team Wendy Exfil LTP. You can run less expensive helmets, but you'll need to customize them more to meet your needs. This goes for mounts, too. Buying and trying gets real expensive, real fast.

If you think you will use this type of device sparingly, you could also look at a new production Gen 2+ option, which is also a very solid choice. You will sacrifice some extreme low light performance, but you might end up with higher SNR and LP/MM (resolution) which are good things. New production Gen 2+ is far beyond the old Gen 2/2+ gear from the mid-late 80's.

I've traded away all my "milspec" PVS-14 gear and run an AB Night Vision MOD-3 setup, and it meets my needs perfectly fine. I am a tinkerer, so I never wanted or needed a warranty. Since I'm just shopping for parts and not a complete relationship, I'm driven by price-point, more-so than vendor loyalty.

As a result, I'm into a dual tube Binocular setup for about the same cost as what a single PVS-14 monocular runs from TNVC. Granted, my device might die tomorrow, and I lack a spec sheet. I also built, purged, and collimated my own unit. TNVC and the other vendors also pay a lot of $ for brand new tubes from the OEM. The equipment they use for testing tubes, and setting up devices is extremely expensive - there's a lot of overhead involved. Some of my tubes are from a defunct military contractor, so my savings are only because that original contractor paid the upfront cost and absorbed all the loss. When Apex was selling dirt cheap PVS-14's that came back from SOC-USA they were only able to sell them cheap because someone else absorbed the loss (SOC-USA).

I really wish there was a new production Gen 2+ monocular that takes PVS-14 accessories in the $1500 price-point with a 1yr warranty. That device could have a commercial housing, with mil-spec glass. If it was easily bridgeable / upgradable, that would also be a huge bonus. I think that pricepoint would disrupt the used sales of Gen 3 devices, and tubes quite a bit. I hope the vendors are listening, but I'm not sure if that price even leaves a profit margin after tube / housing / warranty costs.



Best you'll get for the cheapest price: Gen2  http://www.nightgoggles.com/shop/night-vision-monoculars/ngipvs-14-gen-2-comspec/



The pictures on your website aren't very flattering for the com spec they look worse then the 700 apex ps14s


I'm calling bullshit link to $700 apex unit

http://www.apexgunparts.com/night-vision-atn-ps-14-cgt-monocular-used.html

1) pictures don't look nearly as good as night goggles
2) why even mention it considering there sold out
3)these are used beat up units not factory new units with a warranty like nightvison goggles units
Link Posted: 7/13/2015 9:00:59 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm calling bullshit link to $700 apex unit

http://www.apexgunparts.com/night-vision-atn-ps-14-cgt-monocular-used.html

1) pictures don't look nearly as good as night goggles
2) why even mention it considering there sold out
3)these are used beat up units not factory new units with a warranty like nightvison goggles units
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Best suggestion: Find someone on the NV forum who is local to you and try on their helmet setup. The popular "budget" helmet seems to be the Team Wendy Exfil LTP. You can run less expensive helmets, but you'll need to customize them more to meet your needs. This goes for mounts, too. Buying and trying gets real expensive, real fast.

If you think you will use this type of device sparingly, you could also look at a new production Gen 2+ option, which is also a very solid choice. You will sacrifice some extreme low light performance, but you might end up with higher SNR and LP/MM (resolution) which are good things. New production Gen 2+ is far beyond the old Gen 2/2+ gear from the mid-late 80's.

I've traded away all my "milspec" PVS-14 gear and run an AB Night Vision MOD-3 setup, and it meets my needs perfectly fine. I am a tinkerer, so I never wanted or needed a warranty. Since I'm just shopping for parts and not a complete relationship, I'm driven by price-point, more-so than vendor loyalty.

As a result, I'm into a dual tube Binocular setup for about the same cost as what a single PVS-14 monocular runs from TNVC. Granted, my device might die tomorrow, and I lack a spec sheet. I also built, purged, and collimated my own unit. TNVC and the other vendors also pay a lot of $ for brand new tubes from the OEM. The equipment they use for testing tubes, and setting up devices is extremely expensive - there's a lot of overhead involved. Some of my tubes are from a defunct military contractor, so my savings are only because that original contractor paid the upfront cost and absorbed all the loss. When Apex was selling dirt cheap PVS-14's that came back from SOC-USA they were only able to sell them cheap because someone else absorbed the loss (SOC-USA).

I really wish there was a new production Gen 2+ monocular that takes PVS-14 accessories in the $1500 price-point with a 1yr warranty. That device could have a commercial housing, with mil-spec glass. If it was easily bridgeable / upgradable, that would also be a huge bonus. I think that pricepoint would disrupt the used sales of Gen 3 devices, and tubes quite a bit. I hope the vendors are listening, but I'm not sure if that price even leaves a profit margin after tube / housing / warranty costs.



Best you'll get for the cheapest price: Gen2  http://www.nightgoggles.com/shop/night-vision-monoculars/ngipvs-14-gen-2-comspec/



The pictures on your website aren't very flattering for the com spec they look worse then the 700 apex ps14s


I'm calling bullshit link to $700 apex unit

http://www.apexgunparts.com/night-vision-atn-ps-14-cgt-monocular-used.html

1) pictures don't look nearly as good as night goggles
2) why even mention it considering there sold out
3)these are used beat up units not factory new units with a warranty like nightvison goggles units


Theres one ps14 for sale on eBay right now they pop up all the time on the ee

I just don't understand the pricing on the com units I checked my picture I took through my apex unit and imo that tube is a higher spec tube then the com spec

I could see 1200 or something close but when you can get omni vii manual gain units for 2300 with a warrenty why would you ever buy a low spec gen 2 for 1900

I'm not trying to shit on tnvc I bought a bunch of my nvg gear from them I'll be spending even more with them in the coming months
Link Posted: 7/13/2015 9:27:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 7/22/2015 3:00:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Man, I keep going back and forth over what I want to have.

Was sold on getting a PVS-14... but now eyeing the Mod3 really hard right now. But the IR Patrol M250 is also really interesting.
Think I'll have to draw on y'alls experience. Would you guys prefer to have a Mod 3 or a PVS-14 AND a M250 in some sort of bridged setup where you can rotate them on/off as needed? Or do you guys think a weapon mounted thermal like the M300 is superior?
Link Posted: 7/22/2015 3:31:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 7/22/2015 4:11:42 PM EDT
[#46]
For whatever it's worth, I debated the same issues, but I was gearing up for two, my 15yr old son and me. That lead me to choose PVS 14's over the Mod 3.

If I was going to be using the kit primarily myself - and I hope I'm not, I hope my son will be night hunting with me frequently - then I would have gone Mod 3. I really appreciate the Mod 3 features, weight, and the fact that you can start out with just one AB monocular and add a second and the bridge later.

[A fresh thought: I wonder if the AB bridge will accept the dovetail from the Patrol, which would make the Mod 3 the most versatile set up possible. Hmm, but the dovetail is powered, and I'm unsure if the dovetail is a standard size. Need to look into that.]

Anyway, since I was setting up for two, I also bought a 35mm IR Hunter MKII for one of our rifles, and a Patrol 300 so that the Patrol can serve as both as a weapon sight for the other rifle and as a scanner. The Wilcox weapon mount is quick and easy to use, even in the dark, so scanning and then weapon mounting for the shot shouldn't be too taxing.

I bought a Mod Armory bridge, which will accept the Patrol's dovetail, so I can try hands free scanning with the Patrol while still having the PVS 14 mounted, but swung out of the way, or vice versa. Or I can try dual PVS 14's, and use the Patrol hand held for scanning when I am alone.

I went with dovetail mounts for the helmets (one Crye Nightcap and one Team Wendy) and a Norotos dual dovetail adapter for one of the PVS 14's to keep switching and swapping simple as my son and I learn about this gear.

You can swap a head mounted Patrol and a PVS 14 or AB monocular back and forth one at a time easy enough, you just need to set the Patrol up for head mounting and get a Norotos dual dovetail adapter or a Wilcox dovetail arm for the PVS 14/AB monocular.

Nothing hides from thermal and shooting hogs with thermal is fantastic. For the cost difference between a Patrol 250 and 300 I would get the 300 for the added versatility.

Hope this helps,

JPK



Link Posted: 7/24/2015 1:05:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Best you'll get for the cheapest price: Gen2  http://www.nightgoggles.com/shop/night-vision-monoculars/ngipvs-14-gen-2-comspec/
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Best suggestion: Find someone on the NV forum who is local to you and try on their helmet setup. The popular "budget" helmet seems to be the Team Wendy Exfil LTP. You can run less expensive helmets, but you'll need to customize them more to meet your needs. This goes for mounts, too. Buying and trying gets real expensive, real fast.

If you think you will use this type of device sparingly, you could also look at a new production Gen 2+ option, which is also a very solid choice. You will sacrifice some extreme low light performance, but you might end up with higher SNR and LP/MM (resolution) which are good things. New production Gen 2+ is far beyond the old Gen 2/2+ gear from the mid-late 80's.

I've traded away all my "milspec" PVS-14 gear and run an AB Night Vision MOD-3 setup, and it meets my needs perfectly fine. I am a tinkerer, so I never wanted or needed a warranty. Since I'm just shopping for parts and not a complete relationship, I'm driven by price-point, more-so than vendor loyalty.

As a result, I'm into a dual tube Binocular setup for about the same cost as what a single PVS-14 monocular runs from TNVC. Granted, my device might die tomorrow, and I lack a spec sheet. I also built, purged, and collimated my own unit. TNVC and the other vendors also pay a lot of $ for brand new tubes from the OEM. The equipment they use for testing tubes, and setting up devices is extremely expensive - there's a lot of overhead involved. Some of my tubes are from a defunct military contractor, so my savings are only because that original contractor paid the upfront cost and absorbed all the loss. When Apex was selling dirt cheap PVS-14's that came back from SOC-USA they were only able to sell them cheap because someone else absorbed the loss (SOC-USA).

I really wish there was a new production Gen 2+ monocular that takes PVS-14 accessories in the $1500 price-point with a 1yr warranty. That device could have a commercial housing, with mil-spec glass. If it was easily bridgeable / upgradable, that would also be a huge bonus. I think that pricepoint would disrupt the used sales of Gen 3 devices, and tubes quite a bit. I hope the vendors are listening, but I'm not sure if that price even leaves a profit margin after tube / housing / warranty costs.



Best you'll get for the cheapest price: Gen2  http://www.nightgoggles.com/shop/night-vision-monoculars/ngipvs-14-gen-2-comspec/

I'm looking to get into NV also and researching ^^THIS NV^^ bought me to this thread.
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 1:33:23 PM EDT
[#48]
I might get flamed for this but I got a ATN 6015 HPT unit shown as gen 2+ but when I opened it up there was a mx-10160C gen 3 tube very high spec no blems in it

Amazing image these units I see go for 1700$-1800$ new
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 9:29:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Investment ? no and not ever. I can't tell you the thousands I have spent in night vision ( I am better than most at what I do). I score on many deals and lose on some others. I guess because I am good at what I do I make more than most. It still is just a hobby to fund my next purchase.

I don't see it as a money making adventure. It simply funds my next purchase. Guys like Vic and others turned it into a business but my interest has always been fun. Buying used and building your own can be done for free with great skills. It has never been an investment though... :)
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 2:23:24 AM EDT
[#50]
Not to high jack the thread but which mount are most of you guys running on the pvs14? Or could someone point me in the direction where this has been discussed.
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