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Quoted: On a side note, do the Photonis Supergen systems handle recoil better than the gen3 we are used to? View Quote 700G's typical. 500 Minimum... Compared to 75 G's for most US Gen3 - So yes, ALL Photonis tubes, even the lower ones, are rated for weapons use AFAIK... And 700 G's would also cover higher calibers that 500 G's doesn't really cover, like 7.62. I hadn't really thought about that, but if you were going to stick a PVS-14 on a .308 or .300 or the likes, then a Photonis tube would actually be a good choice - even the high-res aviation models.... Mind you, I don't endorse that position, because even if the tubes can take it, the housings were never designed for that recoil... Mind you, some of the aftermarket PVS-14 would handle it pretty well from the look of it. Regards David |
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700G's typical. 500 Minimum... Compared to 75 G's for most US Gen3 - So yes, ALL Photonis tubes, even the lower ones, are rated for weapons use AFAIK... And 700 G's would also cover higher calibers that 500 G's doesn't really cover, like 7.62. I hadn't really thought about that, but if you were going to stick a PVS-14 on a .308 or .300 or the likes, then a Photonis tube would actually be a good choice - even the high-res aviation models.... Mind you, I don't endorse that position, because even if the tubes can take it, the housings were never designed for that recoil... Mind you, some of the aftermarket PVS-14 would handle it pretty well from the look of it. Regards David View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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On a side note, do the Photonis Supergen systems handle recoil better than the gen3 we are used to? 700G's typical. 500 Minimum... Compared to 75 G's for most US Gen3 - So yes, ALL Photonis tubes, even the lower ones, are rated for weapons use AFAIK... And 700 G's would also cover higher calibers that 500 G's doesn't really cover, like 7.62. I hadn't really thought about that, but if you were going to stick a PVS-14 on a .308 or .300 or the likes, then a Photonis tube would actually be a good choice - even the high-res aviation models.... Mind you, I don't endorse that position, because even if the tubes can take it, the housings were never designed for that recoil... Mind you, some of the aftermarket PVS-14 would handle it pretty well from the look of it. Regards David Oh know, not that again! Vic |
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+1 Had this same issue. Can you tell us what tubes will be in these? Will ya'll also be offering scopes or clip-ons? I was about to buy a M845 gen2+ from ya'll in January only to find that ya'll had discontinued them.. I was in a similar situation to the OP. Wanted a semi affordable way to get into NV. Couldn't bring myself to pay the ~3k for a new warrantied unit. So i picked up a Photonis Supergen from Itchy on the EE and grabbed a pvs 14 kit from NV2go. I was blown away by the photonis tube and am very happy with the purchase for the amount of money invested. But now of course i want more.. its a slippery slope! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looking for something like a PVS14, but i can only afford gen 2 right now. I was turned on to the Armasight NYX14 by someone, and they say its very good for gen2+ and its only 2k. I picked up an ATPIAL-C with plans on getting NV, so i want something that will easily pick up that IR laser. Am I better off saving another grand for Gen 3? or maybe try to find a used gen 3 for around 2k? thanks! +1 Had this same issue. Can you tell us what tubes will be in these? Will ya'll also be offering scopes or clip-ons? I was about to buy a M845 gen2+ from ya'll in January only to find that ya'll had discontinued them.. I was in a similar situation to the OP. Wanted a semi affordable way to get into NV. Couldn't bring myself to pay the ~3k for a new warrantied unit. So i picked up a Photonis Supergen from Itchy on the EE and grabbed a pvs 14 kit from NV2go. I was blown away by the photonis tube and am very happy with the purchase for the amount of money invested. But now of course i want more.. its a slippery slope! My guess is ( I don't know for sure) that if you are already signed up for TNVC newsletters and such the database would be transferred over to Night Goggles as well. Being they are owned by the same people and Night Goggles is just a new venture more geared toward hunting and lower cost QUALITY options. I am not exactly sure which Photonis tubes will be sold. They could start with Supergen and may offer other Photonis tubes in the future. I am just guessing here though. The M845 was a older scope that were refurbished with new tubes. They had a limited supply and I am sure they sold out. Supergen tubes are what we call commercial tubes. They can be XD4 or XR5 tubes that didn't meet milspec for whatever reason. Same tubes Itchy was selling. Specs can vary on these from tube to tube. But that is true of Gen 3 tubes as well. |
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Quoted: My guess is ( I don't know for sure) that if you are already signed up for TNVC newsletters and such the database would be transferred over to Night Goggles as well. View Quote I even tried my work email, which I've never signed up for anything, ever. Gave me the same email message. |
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On a side note, do the Photonis Supergen systems handle recoil better than the gen3 we are used to? 700G's typical. 500 Minimum... Compared to 75 G's for most US Gen3 - So yes, ALL Photonis tubes, even the lower ones, are rated for weapons use AFAIK... And 700 G's would also cover higher calibers that 500 G's doesn't really cover, like 7.62. I hadn't really thought about that, but if you were going to stick a PVS-14 on a .308 or .300 or the likes, then a Photonis tube would actually be a good choice - even the high-res aviation models.... Mind you, I don't endorse that position, because even if the tubes can take it, the housings were never designed for that recoil... Mind you, some of the aftermarket PVS-14 would handle it pretty well from the look of it. Regards David Oh know, not that again! Vic You two can argue all you want but I WILL NOT take my PVS-14 apart AGAIN to argue this !! |
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So, someone clear this up for me.
The difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 is the technology involved, not the performace? When it comes to Gen 2, it's easily possible to have specs that equal or exceed Gen 3? If so, how does one differentiate between "Gen 2" and "Gen 2 supertubes"? Do these "Gen 2 Supertubes" (which equal or exceed Gen 3) remain price competitive? I really want to get some duals sometime, but can't see myself spending the coin on expensive Gen 3s. However, after using Gen 3 PVS-14s exclusively I can't see myself taking a drop in image quality. It would be sick to be able to get Gen 2 that cost less than Gen 3 but are quality competitive. *Crosses fingers* |
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So, someone clear this up for me. The difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 is the technology involved, not the performace? When it comes to Gen 2, it's easily possible to have specs that equal or exceed Gen 3? If so, how does one differentiate between "Gen 2" and "Gen 2 supertubes"? Do these "Gen 2 Supertubes" (which equal or exceed Gen 3) remain price competitive? I really want to get some duals sometime, but can't see myself spending the coin on expensive Gen 3s. However, after using Gen 3 PVS-14s exclusively I can't see myself taking a drop in image quality. It would be sick to be able to get Gen 2 that cost less than Gen 3 but are quality competitive. *Crosses fingers* View Quote It is performance and technology. I think the highest performing US made Gen 2 was a extended red Litton tube (outside of some off the wall one time US Gen 2+1 supertube). We made all kinds of one off tubes in the 90's. Photonis decided Gen 2 technolgy or I should say Multi Alkali photocathodes were the way to go and kept advancing that technology. The US just decided to go with GaAs photocathodes and stopped Multi Alkali research. Gen 2 tubes are filmless and Gen 3 required a film which really reduced its performance in the beginning and to some degree still does though we also advanced Gen 3 and thinned the film as well as other things to increase performance. I won't go into the science nerd stuff and will keep it simple. The US did and still does make a filmless Gen 3 tube but they are hard to make and not cheap. The lack of film inherent to Gen 2 design solves some fragility problems such as the film flaking and other Gen 3 weakness areas. Just like Gen 3 Photonis makes all different levels of performance in their multi alkali design. Their newest tube is the INTENS tube which may very well outperform our best Gen 3 tubes with the exception of maybe high spec L3 filmless tubes. They are expensive and nobody I know has one so we wait and see. But just like ITT and L3 Photonis makes all levels of performing tubes except they all use multi-akali photocathodes. The top end tubes are XD4, XR5, and the Intens. When a tube does not pass a certain test it is deemed commercial just like Gen 3 tubes. Like David said they have a different business model and sell tubes based on specs and quality. Photonis tubes were never popular in the US because they cost to damn much and we could get Gen 3 cheaper. Because the US restricted Gen 3 sales to other country's they were free to charge what they wanted and is the main reason our friends across the ponds paid so much for night vision tubes. I guess they now want in the US market but had to drastically reduce prices to compete with Gen 3. So Supergen tubes can widely vary in specs because you don't know if it was a failed XD4, XR5 and so on. It could be a fine performer but had a blemish so it failed milspec. Every tube off the line is designed to be milspec. They don't purposely put spots in tubes to make them fail. They now have programmable power supply's to neuter tubes that perform to good so they can export them to restricted country's. They also have other ways to reduce performance to export in FOM limited areas. So I guess Photonis decided to take their tubes that failed milspec and sell them cheap in the US market. Supergen can be compared to our commercial line. Like a box of chocolates. Specs determine what you get. I don't know how long these tubes will last or even if Photonis will keep trying to infiltrate the US market. My guess is they want to compete for your dollar and they will not be going away. Once my housing gets here I will update this thread with a review, pics and my honest thoughts. I don't expect it will beat my ITT milspec supertube which I will never sell. I have had it for years and it is a stellar performer. I suspect S/N of my tube at 30 or better but it has no sheet as it is a milspec tube. We are going to learn together in this thread as it is my first Photonis tube that is new and I own. Had others but they were not my tube to play with. Multi-Alkali photocathodes are not inferior to a GaAs (Gallium arsenide) photocathodes. Photonis just thinks multi-alkali is the way to go and we chose another path. Who was right ? Only time will tell in the end but both tubes can go head to head with each other assuming they have equal specs. |
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I am just guessing here though. The M845 was a older scope that were refurbished with new tubes. They had a limited supply and I am sure they sold out. Supergen tubes are what we call commercial tubes. They can be XD4 or XR5 tubes that didn't meet milspec for whatever reason. Same tubes Itchy was selling. Specs can vary on these from tube to tube. But that is true of Gen 3 tubes as well. View Quote I figured as much, just bad timing on my part. My xx1940 has a couple tiny blems but other than that is great. |
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Figured you were pointed at us...So lets see... With a hand select option and since we're quoting lets mention you're off $285.00 for this http://tnvc.com/shop/pvs-14-gen3-pinnacle-night-enforcer%C2%AE-nh-kit/ and you were off $925.00 for this, http://tnvc.com/shop/tnvpvs-14-l3-gen3-omni-viii/...And sorry this is $1001.00 off http://tnvc.com/shop/category/night-vision-monoculars/ and these all have a 5 year warranty. Rather quote and not be off by and around a few dollars.from $4000. I get the DIY for some, great no issue, but when ya show a limited picture of what we offer, well you get the idea.... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'll preface this by saying it's not meant to be confrontational, since words sometimes can come off that way. Actually what I said is that a tube failing is not common. Surely used tubes do fail but I think the buyer should consider not just the possibility of failure but also the likelihood of failure, so a proper risk assessment can be made. If someone buys a used pvs14 off the EE for $1500, and the tube fails, the housing is still worth $550-$600, and someone like me would pay them $200 for the dead tube (with a good module in it) so they are really out $700. Certainly not several thousand. Again, the buyer has to determine if the $1200 warrantee is worth it, or if they could stomach the loss of $700-$800. Notice I'm not saying don't buy a new warranted device, what I am saying is the buyer should have as much info as possible so they can make a decision that best fits their needs. It is not common for tubes to die, but they can fail, as it happened to me. AEO will fix your tube for 545 bucks and give you 1 year of warranty on the repotted tube. So, lets see, why pay 4000 for a new unit with warranty, when I can pay, say 1500, and if the tube dies then I can pay another 545 bucks to have it fixed (and warranted), or shop around for another tube and sell the old one... either way you look at it... you can always come way ahead of the warranty if you're willing to DIY... Again, the warranty is if you don't want to deal with anything and are willing to wait; paying for a warranty is effectively paying for someone else to take care any potential problems for you... G. Not sure where a $4000.new is from? Surely not from us. Sorry, I was off by around 200 dollars... https://tnvc.com/shop/pvs-14-night-enforcer-gen3-pinnacle-night-vision-monocular/ G. Figured you were pointed at us...So lets see... With a hand select option and since we're quoting lets mention you're off $285.00 for this http://tnvc.com/shop/pvs-14-gen3-pinnacle-night-enforcer%C2%AE-nh-kit/ and you were off $925.00 for this, http://tnvc.com/shop/tnvpvs-14-l3-gen3-omni-viii/...And sorry this is $1001.00 off http://tnvc.com/shop/category/night-vision-monoculars/ and these all have a 5 year warranty. Rather quote and not be off by and around a few dollars.from $4000. I get the DIY for some, great no issue, but when ya show a limited picture of what we offer, well you get the idea.... I understand, but still too rich for my blood. G. |
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It is performance and technology. I think the highest performing US made Gen 2 was a extended red Litton tube (outside of some off the wall one time US Gen 2+1 supertube). We made all kinds of one off tubes in the 90's. Photonis decided Gen 2 technolgy or I should say Multi Alkali photocathodes were the way to go and kept advancing that technology. The US just decided to go with GaAs photocathodes and stopped Multi Alkali research. Gen 2 tubes are filmless and Gen 3 required a film which really reduced its performance in the beginning and to some degree still does though we also advanced Gen 3 and thinned the film as well as other things to increase performance. I won't go into the science nerd stuff and will keep it simple. The US did and still does make a filmless Gen 3 tube but they are hard to make and not cheap. The lack of film inherent to Gen 2 design solves some fragility problems such as the film flaking and other Gen 3 weakness areas. Just like Gen 3 Photonis makes all different levels of performance in their multi alkali design. Their newest tube is the INTENS tube which may very well outperform our best Gen 3 tubes with the exception of maybe high spec L3 filmless tubes. They are expensive and nobody I know has one so we wait and see. But just like ITT and L3 Photonis makes all levels of performing tubes except they all use multi-akali photocathodes. The top end tubes are XD4, XR5, and the Intens. When a tube does not pass a certain test it is deemed commercial just like Gen 3 tubes. Like David said they have a different business model and sell tubes based on specs and quality. Photonis tubes were never popular in the US because they cost to damn much and we could get Gen 3 cheaper. Because the US restricted Gen 3 sales to other country's they were free to charge what they wanted and is the main reason our friends across the ponds paid so much for night vision tubes. I guess they now want in the US market but had to drastically reduce prices to compete with Gen 3. So Supergen tubes can widely vary in specs because you don't know if it was a failed XD4, XR5 and so on. It could be a fine performer but had a blemish so it failed milspec. Every tube off the line is designed to be milspec. They don't purposely put spots in tubes to make them fail. They now have programmable power supply's to neuter tubes that perform to good so they can export them to restricted country's. They also have other ways to reduce performance to export in FOM limited areas. So I guess Photonis decided to take their tubes that failed milspec and sell them cheap in the US market. Supergen can be compared to our commercial line. Like a box of chocolates. Specs determine what you get. I don't know how long these tubes will last or even if Photonis will keep trying to infiltrate the US market. My guess is they want to compete for your dollar and they will not be going away. Once my housing gets here I will update this thread with a review, pics and my honest thoughts. I don't expect it will beat my ITT milspec supertube which I will never sell. I have had it for years and it is a stellar performer. I suspect S/N of my tube at 30 or better but it has no sheet as it is a milspec tube. We are going to learn together in this thread as it is my first Photonis tube that is new and I own. Had others but they were not my tube to play with. Multi-Alkali photocathodes are not inferior to a GaAs (Gallium arsenide) photocathodes. Photonis just thinks multi-alkali is the way to go and we chose another path. Who was right ? Only time will tell in the end but both tubes can go head to head with each other assuming they have equal specs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, someone clear this up for me. The difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 is the technology involved, not the performace? When it comes to Gen 2, it's easily possible to have specs that equal or exceed Gen 3? If so, how does one differentiate between "Gen 2" and "Gen 2 supertubes"? Do these "Gen 2 Supertubes" (which equal or exceed Gen 3) remain price competitive? I really want to get some duals sometime, but can't see myself spending the coin on expensive Gen 3s. However, after using Gen 3 PVS-14s exclusively I can't see myself taking a drop in image quality. It would be sick to be able to get Gen 2 that cost less than Gen 3 but are quality competitive. *Crosses fingers* It is performance and technology. I think the highest performing US made Gen 2 was a extended red Litton tube (outside of some off the wall one time US Gen 2+1 supertube). We made all kinds of one off tubes in the 90's. Photonis decided Gen 2 technolgy or I should say Multi Alkali photocathodes were the way to go and kept advancing that technology. The US just decided to go with GaAs photocathodes and stopped Multi Alkali research. Gen 2 tubes are filmless and Gen 3 required a film which really reduced its performance in the beginning and to some degree still does though we also advanced Gen 3 and thinned the film as well as other things to increase performance. I won't go into the science nerd stuff and will keep it simple. The US did and still does make a filmless Gen 3 tube but they are hard to make and not cheap. The lack of film inherent to Gen 2 design solves some fragility problems such as the film flaking and other Gen 3 weakness areas. Just like Gen 3 Photonis makes all different levels of performance in their multi alkali design. Their newest tube is the INTENS tube which may very well outperform our best Gen 3 tubes with the exception of maybe high spec L3 filmless tubes. They are expensive and nobody I know has one so we wait and see. But just like ITT and L3 Photonis makes all levels of performing tubes except they all use multi-akali photocathodes. The top end tubes are XD4, XR5, and the Intens. When a tube does not pass a certain test it is deemed commercial just like Gen 3 tubes. Like David said they have a different business model and sell tubes based on specs and quality. Photonis tubes were never popular in the US because they cost to damn much and we could get Gen 3 cheaper. Because the US restricted Gen 3 sales to other country's they were free to charge what they wanted and is the main reason our friends across the ponds paid so much for night vision tubes. I guess they now want in the US market but had to drastically reduce prices to compete with Gen 3. So Supergen tubes can widely vary in specs because you don't know if it was a failed XD4, XR5 and so on. It could be a fine performer but had a blemish so it failed milspec. Every tube off the line is designed to be milspec. They don't purposely put spots in tubes to make them fail. They now have programmable power supply's to neuter tubes that perform to good so they can export them to restricted country's. They also have other ways to reduce performance to export in FOM limited areas. So I guess Photonis decided to take their tubes that failed milspec and sell them cheap in the US market. Supergen can be compared to our commercial line. Like a box of chocolates. Specs determine what you get. I don't know how long these tubes will last or even if Photonis will keep trying to infiltrate the US market. My guess is they want to compete for your dollar and they will not be going away. Once my housing gets here I will update this thread with a review, pics and my honest thoughts. I don't expect it will beat my ITT milspec supertube which I will never sell. I have had it for years and it is a stellar performer. I suspect S/N of my tube at 30 or better but it has no sheet as it is a milspec tube. We are going to learn together in this thread as it is my first Photonis tube that is new and I own. Had others but they were not my tube to play with. Multi-Alkali photocathodes are not inferior to a GaAs (Gallium arsenide) photocathodes. Photonis just thinks multi-alkali is the way to go and we chose another path. Who was right ? Only time will tell in the end but both tubes can go head to head with each other assuming they have equal specs. would these be the L3 infinity tubes listed on this link describing the tubes if so I have one http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=332072 |
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Originally Posted By firemedic2000
would these be the L3 infinity tubes View Quote I highly doubt most Supergen would beat a Infinity L3 tube but it is possible with a special very high spec one. I don't expect them to beat a Milspec Omni VII or VI but they are not at that price point either. |
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The big difference I see in this tube is operation around lights. There is very little halo and the image is clearer and in very low light. I am looking for a micro housing to put this into. I stuck the Omni 7 tube in it's house to mate to the other Omni 7 to bridge them. I just could not mate this to anything other than another infinity tube. By the way Dino you remind me of the guy on Pawn Star the one they call the Beard of Knowledge except you are the Beard of Knowledge in NV I love reading your posts.
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The big difference I see in this tube is operation around lights. There is very little halo and the image is clearer and in very low light. I am looking for a micro housing to put this into. I stuck the Omni 7 tube in it's house to mate to the other Omni 7 to bridge them. I just could not mate this to anything other than another infinity tube. By the way Dino you remind me of the guy on Pawn Star the one they call the Beard of Knowledge except you are the Beard of Knowledge in NV I love reading your posts. View Quote LOL, The Infinity tubes are very nice tubes. Be proud of that tube ! A Micro housing with a Envis front lens would be a top notch housing for that tube. Thanks for the kind words. |
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Looks like I may be joining the green eyes club in the next few months
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LOL, The Infinity tubes are very nice tubes. Be proud of that tube ! A Micro housing with a Envis front lens would be a top notch housing for that tube. Thanks for the kind words. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The big difference I see in this tube is operation around lights. There is very little halo and the image is clearer and in very low light. I am looking for a micro housing to put this into. I stuck the Omni 7 tube in it's house to mate to the other Omni 7 to bridge them. I just could not mate this to anything other than another infinity tube. By the way Dino you remind me of the guy on Pawn Star the one they call the Beard of Knowledge except you are the Beard of Knowledge in NV I love reading your posts. LOL, The Infinity tubes are very nice tubes. Be proud of that tube ! A Micro housing with a Envis front lens would be a top notch housing for that tube. Thanks for the kind words. Thanks That's just what I will do. Who do you recommend buy the micro housing from at a decent price |
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Thanks That's just what I will do. Who do you recommend buy the micro housing from at a decent price View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The big difference I see in this tube is operation around lights. There is very little halo and the image is clearer and in very low light. I am looking for a micro housing to put this into. I stuck the Omni 7 tube in it's house to mate to the other Omni 7 to bridge them. I just could not mate this to anything other than another infinity tube. By the way Dino you remind me of the guy on Pawn Star the one they call the Beard of Knowledge except you are the Beard of Knowledge in NV I love reading your posts. LOL, The Infinity tubes are very nice tubes. Be proud of that tube ! A Micro housing with a Envis front lens would be a top notch housing for that tube. Thanks for the kind words. Thanks That's just what I will do. Who do you recommend buy the micro housing from at a decent price Only place you can get one new is Night Vision Depot. They licensed it from AB night vision. |
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would these be the L3 infinity tubes listed on this link describing the tubes if so I have one http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=332072 <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/firemedic2000/media/IMG_3452_zpsb8z5pupa.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/firemedic2000/IMG_3452_zpsb8z5pupa.jpg</a> View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, someone clear this up for me. The difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 is the technology involved, not the performace? When it comes to Gen 2, it's easily possible to have specs that equal or exceed Gen 3? If so, how does one differentiate between "Gen 2" and "Gen 2 supertubes"? Do these "Gen 2 Supertubes" (which equal or exceed Gen 3) remain price competitive? I really want to get some duals sometime, but can't see myself spending the coin on expensive Gen 3s. However, after using Gen 3 PVS-14s exclusively I can't see myself taking a drop in image quality. It would be sick to be able to get Gen 2 that cost less than Gen 3 but are quality competitive. *Crosses fingers* It is performance and technology. I think the highest performing US made Gen 2 was a extended red Litton tube (outside of some off the wall one time US Gen 2+1 supertube). We made all kinds of one off tubes in the 90's. Photonis decided Gen 2 technolgy or I should say Multi Alkali photocathodes were the way to go and kept advancing that technology. The US just decided to go with GaAs photocathodes and stopped Multi Alkali research. Gen 2 tubes are filmless and Gen 3 required a film which really reduced its performance in the beginning and to some degree still does though we also advanced Gen 3 and thinned the film as well as other things to increase performance. I won't go into the science nerd stuff and will keep it simple. The US did and still does make a filmless Gen 3 tube but they are hard to make and not cheap. The lack of film inherent to Gen 2 design solves some fragility problems such as the film flaking and other Gen 3 weakness areas. Just like Gen 3 Photonis makes all different levels of performance in their multi alkali design. Their newest tube is the INTENS tube which may very well outperform our best Gen 3 tubes with the exception of maybe high spec L3 filmless tubes. They are expensive and nobody I know has one so we wait and see. But just like ITT and L3 Photonis makes all levels of performing tubes except they all use multi-akali photocathodes. The top end tubes are XD4, XR5, and the Intens. When a tube does not pass a certain test it is deemed commercial just like Gen 3 tubes. Like David said they have a different business model and sell tubes based on specs and quality. Photonis tubes were never popular in the US because they cost to damn much and we could get Gen 3 cheaper. Because the US restricted Gen 3 sales to other country's they were free to charge what they wanted and is the main reason our friends across the ponds paid so much for night vision tubes. I guess they now want in the US market but had to drastically reduce prices to compete with Gen 3. So Supergen tubes can widely vary in specs because you don't know if it was a failed XD4, XR5 and so on. It could be a fine performer but had a blemish so it failed milspec. Every tube off the line is designed to be milspec. They don't purposely put spots in tubes to make them fail. They now have programmable power supply's to neuter tubes that perform to good so they can export them to restricted country's. They also have other ways to reduce performance to export in FOM limited areas. So I guess Photonis decided to take their tubes that failed milspec and sell them cheap in the US market. Supergen can be compared to our commercial line. Like a box of chocolates. Specs determine what you get. I don't know how long these tubes will last or even if Photonis will keep trying to infiltrate the US market. My guess is they want to compete for your dollar and they will not be going away. Once my housing gets here I will update this thread with a review, pics and my honest thoughts. I don't expect it will beat my ITT milspec supertube which I will never sell. I have had it for years and it is a stellar performer. I suspect S/N of my tube at 30 or better but it has no sheet as it is a milspec tube. We are going to learn together in this thread as it is my first Photonis tube that is new and I own. Had others but they were not my tube to play with. Multi-Alkali photocathodes are not inferior to a GaAs (Gallium arsenide) photocathodes. Photonis just thinks multi-alkali is the way to go and we chose another path. Who was right ? Only time will tell in the end but both tubes can go head to head with each other assuming they have equal specs. would these be the L3 infinity tubes listed on this link describing the tubes if so I have one http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=332072 <a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/firemedic2000/media/IMG_3452_zpsb8z5pupa.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/firemedic2000/IMG_3452_zpsb8z5pupa.jpg</a> That tube commands RESPECT... |
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The L3 Chrome WPT Filmless is something special that are built to very high specs. We have these in our high spec PVS-14 line about to be released. I would like to see how the newest Photonis stacks up.
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Quoted: The L3 Chrome WPT Filmless is something special that are built to very high specs. We have these in our high spec PVS-14 line about to be released. I would like to see how the newest Photonis stacks up. View Quote The Photonis tubes are apparently spectrally different to past tubes. That's a far more complicated and deep question than I think any of us can ask at this point in time - I'd expect the Photonis to underperform compared to a really high-sped Gen3, however the altered spectral sensitivity might change the visual aspects of the outcome under some circumstances. Unlike previous comparisons, the outcome might be highly subjective - David. |
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So I got everything together I need to test out this Supergen vs US Gen 3. Now, the Supergen is a Photonis "bargain tube". It is far from the best tube they make so it would not be fair for me to put it up against a ringer (my high spec tubes). The challenger is this test will be a milspec ITT Omni VI autogated (very nice tube). The Photonis tube is not gated and a more fair test would be Omni IV or V but I want to challenge the tube. Just assembled the scope and testing begins tonight. Thank you Rich for helping me get the stuff I was missing for this test. I know both tubes will perform great in urban and normal dark conditions. I want to see how well it does when it is really starved for light. We are talking can't see your hand in front of your face dark. These conditions are rare in the field but I want folks to see these tubes really challenged. Almost any tube looks good in brighter conditions. What I started with below, and night pics to follow soon. This Photonis Supergen MX-11769 (non gated) VS US ITT milspec gated Omni VI http://imageshack.com/a/img540/5792/PDWHAM.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img673/2351/LJTAjT.jpg View Quote No problem Looking forward to seeing the results. Nice stop-ring tool! Did you buy that or is it DIY? |
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No problem Looking forward to seeing the results. Nice stop-ring tool! Did you buy that or is it DIY? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So I got everything together I need to test out this Supergen vs US Gen 3. Now, the Supergen is a Photonis "bargain tube". It is far from the best tube they make so it would not be fair for me to put it up against a ringer (my high spec tubes). The challenger is this test will be a milspec ITT Omni VI autogated (very nice tube). The Photonis tube is not gated and a more fair test would be Omni IV or V but I want to challenge the tube. Just assembled the scope and testing begins tonight. Thank you Rich for helping me get the stuff I was missing for this test. I know both tubes will perform great in urban and normal dark conditions. I want to see how well it does when it is really starved for light. We are talking can't see your hand in front of your face dark. These conditions are rare in the field but I want folks to see these tubes really challenged. Almost any tube looks good in brighter conditions. What I started with below, and night pics to follow soon. This Photonis Supergen MX-11769 (non gated) VS US ITT milspec gated Omni VI http://imageshack.com/a/img540/5792/PDWHAM.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img673/2351/LJTAjT.jpg No problem Looking forward to seeing the results. Nice stop-ring tool! Did you buy that or is it DIY? The tool works great and I have a few. As you know it also removes objective lens lock rings . It is a printed tool but I love mine and use it all the time. Because it is so light I can feel the ring thread properly and it greatly reduces cross-threading. I use the expensive pro tools but like this one better. I did not make it but a forum member here did. I have to check with him to see if he is okay with me giving him credit. He also makes a printed spanner for the lens lock rings. The beauty here is it costs like 5 bucks to make these provided you have the printer. WAY better than the guy that sells tools on eBay or buying them from ITT where you might have to refinance your home to afford a set. Thanks again for your assistance. |
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I'm really expecting your results to mirror mine. I went through a bunch of his tubes. The manual gain version tubes seemed to be better than the auto brightness versions. I'm really curious to see how your review comes out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I'm really expecting your results to mirror mine. I went through a bunch of his tubes. The manual gain version tubes seemed to be better than the auto brightness versions. I'm really curious to see how your review comes out. Quoted:
Excellent tubes at a great price. Thank you for my set of XX1940GL's. I found these to perform similar to my MX-10160 Omni IV Aviator tubes, and even exceed them in some circumstances (halo, manual gain, etc). I'd never know these weren't Gen 3 unless someone told me. The environment for pictures: Picture 1: Basement bedroom staring at a box for a lead sled and a Kid's Disney Poster with a light on 2 rooms away. Dark - I can slightly see large shapes, but I would struggle walking unaided by NVG/Light. We'll call this overcast with barely any moon. If it were the woods, I'd surely be eaten by something after walking into a tree. Picture 2: Basement bedroom staring at a box for a lead sled and a Kid's Disney Poster with no lights on. Only light source is a small red LED on the TV on the other side of the room. I can't see a damn thing. If I moved, I'd fear walking into something. If it were the woods, I'd be hugging a tree until morning. Picture 3: Outside - 10:00 PM. We had snow and there is a street light about 500 yards away. I could probably walk around without NVG, but would be unable to make out small objects. Its probably about the equivalent of 3/4 moon on a clear night, so it is a fairly bright environment. http://www.ifshtf.com/pic/nvg/compare/compare.jpg Somehow I missed those photos. Nice work and the Supergen is well holding its own in those shots ! I would easily say 90% of the Gen 3 Omni VII capability for 1/2 the cost or less. It certainly beat Omni IV and V. We will see if my results mirror yours. I am using Omni VI milspec so this may be a dead heat. We shall see ! |
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Good comparison Dino, VERY good work. Gen 3 wins out right when it's REALLY dark out there, but the Photonis is nothing to sneeze at for the price point you paid especially.
Vic |
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I'm in the same boat as the OP, looking to spend around $2K for decent night vision. Right now I'm looking at some used PVS-14's for around that price on E-bay. I've also been looking at this one from Night Vision 2 Go for around $2,300 http://www.nightvision2go.com/index.php/2014-10-17-20-53-14/monoculars/pvs-14-w-milspec-omni-vii-pinnacle-tube What do you guys think? Seems to be a good deal to me. That or keep saving up for a brand new on from TNVC for $3,000 which I know is a solid unit with a warranty. Of course I'm just using it for fun and hunting, so I don't know if I really need to spend $3K for my purposes. I've also been looking at some inexpensive units with aviation tubes with no auto-gating as well. What do you guys think?
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I'm in the same boat as the OP, looking to spend around $2K for decent night vision. Right now I'm looking at some used PVS-14's for around that price on E-bay. I've also been looking at this one from Night Vision 2 Go for around $2,300 http://www.nightvision2go.com/index.php/2014-10-17-20-53-14/monoculars/pvs-14-w-milspec-omni-vii-pinnacle-tube What do you guys think? Seems to be a good deal to me. That or keep saving up for a brand new on from TNVC for $3,000 which I know is a solid unit with a warranty. Of course I'm just using it for fun and hunting, so I don't know if I really need to spend $3K for my purposes. I've also been looking at some inexpensive units with aviation tubes with no auto-gating as well. What do you guys think? View Quote I'd go with Nightvision2go over eBay any day. You'll be getting a solid unit from an honest person. |
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You can't go wrong either way IMO. You just have to think hard about if you want to chance a non warrantied. NV2GO units are guaranteed to be as good as a warrantied, but also has a chance to fail like any other unit. With that said I have 3 units that have not failed me yet and I rarely read on these forums of someones tube dying on them.
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If NVG2G is 2300 for that, I wonder what the price on those new Gen 2+ in a PVS14 housing will be new.
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The nv2go units have brand new omni vii tubes I think, they are very solid performers. I wouldn't hesitate to make a purchase from them.
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Our new Gen2+ PVS-14 on NightGoggles.com when released in a few weeks will be under 2K WITH A WARRANTY with tubes from the manufacturer and not from 2nd hand purchases.
Vic |
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Our new Gen2+ PVS-14 on NightGoggles.com when released in a few weeks will be under 2K WITH A WARRANTY with tubes from the manufacturer and not from 2nd hand purchases. Vic View Quote $1999.99 doesn't count Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer |
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$1999.99 doesn't count Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Our new Gen2+ PVS-14 on NightGoggles.com when released in a few weeks will be under 2K WITH A WARRANTY with tubes from the manufacturer and not from 2nd hand purchases. Vic $1999.99 doesn't count Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer Just reviewed it on page 3. Same type of tube and brand new 14 housing. Don't know what normal for the tube is as I had a one tube sample to work with. My tube was really a nice one though. Couple tiny blemishes in zone 3 but otherwise a clean tube. Performed very well and above my expectations. Was a real bargain and I am happy with it. I built my own but performance should be similar for most Supergen tubes. Liked mine enough that I am keeping it. I love the TINY halo and lack of scintillation when it gets really dark. I also am impressed with the improved contrast and durability of the tube. Photonis also makes a strong pigtail connection. US tubes could beef theirs up some IMHO. |
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Our new Gen2+ PVS-14 on NightGoggles.com when released in a few weeks will be under 2K WITH A WARRANTY with tubes from the manufacturer and not from 2nd hand purchases. Vic Ain't you technically being a shill? Yep a Site Sponsor SHILL who pay THOUSANDS to support this great site (and have for 13 YEARS NOW) and Nightgoggles is our sister company (with me the man at the helm and our great staff) that will launch as a IP here with permission already granted from the staff that also supports this site as TNVC sister company. Any other questions or would you rather bring this to our Industry page instead of polluting this thread? I see you've been here less than a year.... Vic Di Cosola |
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$1999.99 doesn't count Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Our new Gen2+ PVS-14 on NightGoggles.com when released in a few weeks will be under 2K WITH A WARRANTY with tubes from the manufacturer and not from 2nd hand purchases. Vic $1999.99 doesn't count Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer It will be under that. Thank you. Vic |
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Our new Gen2+ PVS-14 on NightGoggles.com when released in a few weeks will be under 2K WITH A WARRANTY with tubes from the manufacturer and not from 2nd hand purchases. Vic $1999.99 doesn't count Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer It will be under that. Thank you. Vic Thanks Dino1130 & time for the picts. Those look more than good enough for my needs. TNVC you guys are seriously teasing me. Looks like I'll be going the green eyes guys |
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Yep a Site Sponsor SHILL who pay THOUSANDS to support this great site (and have for 13 YEARS NOW) and Nightgoggles is our sister company (with me the man at the helm and our great staff) that will launch as a IP here with permission already granted from the staff that also supports this site as TNVC sister company. Any other questions or would you rather bring this to our Industry page instead of polluting this thread? I see you've been here less than a year.... Vic Di Cosola View Quote ....and lobbied the Site Staff hard to get this NV sub-forum created in the first place several years ago. |
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Yep a Site Sponsor SHILL who pay THOUSANDS to support this great site (and have for 13 YEARS NOW) and Nightgoggles is our sister company (with me the man at the helm and our great staff) that will launch as a IP here with permission already granted from the staff that also supports this site as TNVC sister company. Any other questions or would you rather bring this to our Industry page instead of polluting this thread? I see you've been here less than a year.... Vic Di Cosola View Quote "IP" like Initial Purchase? Like GB? |
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Quoted:
Yep a Site Sponsor SHILL who pay THOUSANDS to support this great site (and have for 13 YEARS NOW) and Nightgoggles is our sister company (with me the man at the helm and our great staff) that will launch as a IP here with permission already granted from the staff that also supports this site as TNVC sister company. Any other questions or would you rather bring this to our Industry page instead of polluting this thread? I see you've been here less than a year.... Vic Di Cosola "IP" like Initial Purchase? Like GB? Industry Partner |
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