700G's typical. 500 Minimum... Compared to 75 G's for most US Gen3 -


So yes, ALL Photonis tubes, even the lower ones, are rated for weapons use AFAIK...  And 700 G's would also cover higher calibers that 500 G's doesn't really cover, like 7.62.


I hadn't really thought about that, but if you were going to stick a PVS-14 on a .308 or .300 or the likes, then a Photonis tube would actually be a good choice - even the high-res aviation models.... Mind you, I don't endorse that position, because even if the tubes can take it, the housings were never designed for that recoil...


Mind you, some of the aftermarket PVS-14 would handle it pretty well from the look of it.


Regards

David

My guess is ( I don't know for sure) that if you are already signed up for TNVC newsletters and such the database would be transferred over to Night Goggles as well. Being they are owned by the same people and Night Goggles is just a new venture more geared toward hunting and lower cost QUALITY options. I am not exactly sure which Photonis tubes will be sold. They could start with Supergen and may offer other Photonis tubes in the future.

I am just guessing here though. The M845 was a older scope that were refurbished with new tubes. They had a limited supply and I am sure they sold out. Supergen tubes are what we call commercial tubes. They can be XD4 or XR5 tubes that didn't meet milspec for whatever reason. Same tubes Itchy was selling. Specs can vary on these from tube to tube. But that is true of Gen 3 tubes as well.

They are looking into it.

 

I even tried my work email, which I've never signed up for anything, ever. Gave me the same email message.

You two can argue all you want but I WILL NOT take my PVS-14 apart AGAIN to argue this !!  

It is performance and technology. I think the highest performing US made Gen 2 was a extended red Litton tube (outside of some off the wall one time US Gen 2+1 supertube). We made all kinds of one off tubes in the 90's.

Photonis decided Gen 2 technolgy or I should say Multi Alkali photocathodes were the way to go and kept advancing that technology. The US just decided to go with GaAs photocathodes and stopped Multi Alkali research. Gen 2 tubes are filmless and Gen 3 required a film which really reduced its performance in the beginning and to some degree still does though we also advanced Gen 3 and thinned the film as well as other things to increase performance. I won't go into the science nerd stuff and will keep it simple.

The US did and still does make a filmless Gen 3 tube but they are hard to make and not cheap. The lack of film inherent to Gen 2 design solves some fragility problems such as the film flaking and other Gen 3 weakness areas.

Just like Gen 3 Photonis makes all different levels of performance in their multi alkali design. Their newest tube is the INTENS tube which may very well outperform our best Gen 3 tubes with the exception of maybe high spec L3 filmless tubes. They are expensive and nobody I know has one so we wait and see.

But just like ITT and L3 Photonis makes all levels of performing tubes except they all use multi-akali photocathodes. The top end tubes are XD4, XR5, and the Intens. When a tube does not pass a certain test it is deemed commercial just like Gen 3 tubes. Like David said they have a different business model and sell tubes based on specs and quality. Photonis tubes were never popular in the US because they cost to damn much and we could get Gen 3 cheaper.

Because the US restricted Gen 3 sales to other country's they were free to charge what they wanted and is the main reason our friends across the ponds paid so much for night vision tubes. I guess they now want in the US market but had to drastically reduce prices to compete with Gen 3. So Supergen tubes can widely vary in specs because you don't know if it was a failed XD4, XR5 and so on. It could be a fine performer but had a blemish so it failed milspec.

Every tube off the line is designed to be milspec. They don't purposely put spots in tubes to make them fail. They now have programmable power supply's to neuter tubes that perform to good so they can export them to restricted country's. They also have other ways to reduce performance to export in FOM limited areas. So I guess Photonis decided to take their tubes that failed milspec and sell them cheap in the US market. Supergen can be compared to our commercial line. Like a box of chocolates. Specs determine what you get.

I don't know how long these tubes will last or even if Photonis will keep trying to infiltrate the US market. My guess is they want to compete for your dollar and they will not be going away. Once my housing gets here I will update this thread with a review, pics and my honest thoughts. I don't expect it will beat my ITT milspec supertube which I will never sell. I have had it for years and it is a stellar performer. I suspect S/N  of my tube at 30 or better but it has no sheet as it is a milspec tube. We are going to learn together in this thread as it is my first Photonis tube that is new and I own. Had others but they were not my tube to play with.

Multi-Alkali photocathodes are not inferior to a GaAs (Gallium arsenide) photocathodes. Photonis just thinks multi-alkali is the way to go and we chose another path. Who was right ? Only time will tell in the end but both tubes can go head to head with each other assuming they have equal specs.

I figured as much, just bad timing on my part.

My xx1940 has a couple tiny blems but other than that is great.

I understand, but still too rich for my blood.

G.

would these be the L3 infinity tubes listed on this link describing the tubes if so I have one

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=332072

I highly doubt most Supergen would beat a Infinity L3 tube but it is possible with a special very high spec one.

I don't expect them to beat a Milspec Omni VII or VI but they are not at that price point either.

The big difference I see in this tube is operation around lights. There is very little halo and the image is clearer and in very low light. I am looking for a micro housing to put this into. I stuck the Omni 7 tube in it's house to mate to the other Omni 7 to bridge them. I just could not mate this to anything other than another infinity tube. By the way Dino you remind me of the guy on Pawn Star the one they call the Beard of Knowledge except you are the Beard of Knowledge in NV I love reading your posts.

LOL, The Infinity tubes are very nice tubes. Be proud of that tube ! A Micro housing with a Envis front lens would be a top notch housing for that tube. Thanks for the kind words.

Looks like I may be joining the green eyes club in the next few months

Thanks That's just what I will do. Who do you recommend buy the micro housing from at a decent price

Only place you can get one new is Night Vision Depot. They licensed it from AB night vision.

That tube commands RESPECT...

Hmmm. An interesting question - The new L3 tubes are a "very high performance" version of existing "already high performance" tubes.

 

The Photonis tubes are apparently spectrally different to past tubes.


That's a far more complicated and deep question than I think any of us can ask at this point in time - I'd expect the Photonis to underperform compared to a really high-sped Gen3, however the altered spectral sensitivity might change the visual aspects of the outcome under some circumstances.


Unlike previous comparisons, the outcome might be highly subjective -


David.

So I got everything together I need to test out this Supergen vs US Gen 3. Now, the Supergen is a Photonis "bargain tube". It is far from the best tube they make so it would not be fair for me to put it up against a ringer (my high spec tubes). The challenger in this test will be a milspec ITT Omni VI autogated (very nice tube). The Photonis tube is not gated and a more fair test would be Omni IV or V but I want to challenge the tube.

Just assembled the scope and testing begins tonight. Thank you Rich for helping me get the stuff I was missing for this test. I know both tubes will perform great in urban and normal dark conditions. I want to see how well it does when it is really starved for light. We are talking can't see your hand in front of your face dark. These conditions are rare in the field but I want folks to see these tubes really challenged. Almost any tube looks good in brighter conditions. What I started with below, and night pics to follow soon.

This Photonis Supergen MX-11769 (non gated) VS US ITT milspec gated Omni VI

No problem Looking forward to seeing the results. Nice stop-ring tool! Did you buy that or is it DIY?

I'm really expecting your results to mirror mine. I went through a bunch of his tubes. The manual gain version tubes seemed to be better than the auto brightness versions. I'm really curious to see how your review comes out.

The tool works great and I have a few. As you know it also removes objective lens lock rings . It is a printed tool but I love mine and use it all the time. Because it is so light I can feel the ring thread properly and it greatly reduces cross-threading. I use the expensive pro tools but like this one better. I did not make it but a forum member here did. I have to check with him to see if he is okay with me giving him credit. He also makes a printed spanner for the lens lock rings.

The beauty here is it costs like 5 bucks to make these provided you have the printer. WAY better than the guy that sells tools on eBay or buying them from ITT where you might have to refinance your home to afford a set. Thanks again for your assistance.

Somehow I missed those photos. Nice work and the Supergen is well holding its own in those shots ! I would easily say 90% of the Gen 3 Omni VII capability for 1/2 the cost or less. It certainly beat Omni IV and V. We will see if my results mirror yours. I am using Omni VI milspec so this may be a dead heat. We shall see !

Well I completed my review. Bottom line is I will be keeping my Photonis tube. The pics do neither tube justice here, partly because my camera skills suck and also because taking pics through a PVS-7 is really hard. The Photonis Supergen is in a PVS-14 and the ITT milspec Omni VI is in a PVS-7. This hurts the Omni VI image somewhat but the photos are accurate. I call it damn near a tie and I have no dog in this whatsoever.

Under 95% of the conditions you will encounter the scopes perform the same. In fact the Photonis tube has almost zero scintillation when it gets really dark and has better contrast over the Gen 3. The Gen 3 scintillation in extremely dark conditions was much worse. The Photonis tube shows the MCP much easier than the Gen 3 in higher light conditions but adjustable gain can minimize this to some degree.

The only time the Gen 3 won was in conditions that you would be using the scopes built in IR anyway. I purposely used no IR in any of my pics. The Gen3 finally won in my basement where it was so dark you could not see 1 foot in front of you. The slight light you will see in the pics is EXTREMELY dim and coming from a small 2' x3' cellar window. Conditions for all these pics were completely overcast and it was raining fairly hard outside. To say I was surprised is a understatement. I think the edge goes to the Gen 3 Omni VI but only by the very smallest of margins and in conditions where you would use external IR anyhow.

Considering the Photonis cost me $625 (brand new) and the US Omni VI cost me $1100 (brand new but NOS) the Photonis was the bargain indeed. The Supergen tube also has extremely low halo and I would say resolution is 64 lp/mm or damn close. I could not tell any difference between the two tubes resolution wise. The Gen 2 suffers little scintillation but does have a swirling effect instead when it gets really dark. I have seen early Gen 3 tubes with this swirling effect as well. Pics below with my thoughts. Take notice of how much scintillation the Gen 3 tube has while the Photonis Supergen has virtually none.



1st pic above is the Photonis tube. Urban environment with some streetlight at a distance but overcast skies and raining. Same conditions for all of the pics below. All these pics were taken within 30 minutes of each other.



Omni VI. The images in real life were identical from both tubes but the Photonis does show better contrast. The Omni VI was a tad brighter but brightness does not mean you see more. I call these two pics a virtual draw from what my eyes saw. I expected this as conditions were favorable for both tubes being a urban environment. But again, it was completely overcast as well.



Same pic as the two above with no aid from night vision. You can see it was pretty dark out.



No we go in my basement. I can't stress enough how dark it is in my basement. This is a concrete wall with patchy paint (I need to paint them). I am elevated sitting at the top of the stairs. This is the Photonis tube. So much for the old adage that Gen 2 can't see when it gets really dark. The tube shocked me. No IR was used but indoors like this almost everyone would be using external IR.



Same location but using US Omni VI. Omni VI was a smidgen brighter but both tubes functionally performed about the same.



Now we get even darker with pics of my washer and dryer from the Photonis Supergen down in my dungeon.



Same shot with US Omni VI. Omni VI again was VERY slightly brighter. But again I gave the Photonis tube the edge in contrast.



Above is the US Omni VI in the darkest of conditions.This is where the US tube finally won the battle. Almost pitch black and everyone would be using external IR. The Photonis tube shot below is much dimmer. Again this is indoors and pitch black. A condition outdoors you will rarely encounter.



The real life image was actually brighter but the camera does not pick it up well. This is the Photonis tube. The edge does go to the Gen 3 here but as I said the Photonis still produced a useable image and was brighter than what the camera shows.

I'm in the same boat as the OP, looking to spend around $2K for decent night vision. Right now I'm looking at some used PVS-14's for around that price on E-bay. I've also been looking at this one from Night Vision 2 Go for around $2,300 http://www.nightvision2go.com/index.php/2014-10-17-20-53-14/monoculars/pvs-14-w-milspec-omni-vii-pinnacle-tube What do you guys think? Seems to be a good deal to me. That or keep saving up for a brand new on from TNVC for $3,000 which I know is a solid unit with a warranty. Of course I'm just using it for fun and hunting, so I don't know if I really need to spend $3K for my purposes. I've also been looking at some inexpensive units with aviation tubes with no auto-gating as well. What do you guys think?

I'd go with Nightvision2go over eBay any day. You'll be getting a solid unit from an honest person.

You can't go wrong either way IMO. You just have to think hard about if you want to chance a non warrantied. NV2GO units are guaranteed to be as good as a warrantied, but also has a chance to fail like any other unit. With that said I have 3 units that have not failed me yet and I rarely read on these forums of someones tube dying on them.

If NVG2G is 2300 for that, I wonder what the price on those new Gen 2+ in a PVS14 housing will be new.

The nv2go units have brand new omni vii tubes I think, they are very solid performers. I wouldn't hesitate to make a purchase from them.

$1999.99 doesn't count
Seriously though I'm excited to hear this. I want to see the 1st reviews although I'm sure they'll be good. Maybe I'll be in the NVG game this summer

Ain't you technically being a shill?

Just reviewed it on page 3. Same type of tube and brand new 14 housing. Don't know what normal for the tube is as I had a one tube sample to work with. My tube was really a nice one though. Couple tiny blemishes in zone 3 but otherwise a clean tube. Performed very well and above my expectations. Was a real bargain and I am happy with it. I built my own but performance should be similar for most Supergen tubes.

Liked mine enough that I am keeping it. I love the TINY halo and lack of scintillation when it gets really dark. I also am impressed with the improved contrast and durability of the tube. Photonis also makes a strong pigtail connection. US tubes could beef theirs up some IMHO.

(fixed) Photonics DIY tube with missing pigtail vs mx10160c.  Not the best example because taken on different nights.

Thanks Dino1130 & time for the picts. Those look more than good enough for my needs.

TNVC you guys are seriously teasing me. Looks like I'll be going the green eyes guys

....and lobbied the Site Staff hard to get this NV sub-forum created in the first place several years ago.

"IP" like Initial Purchase? Like GB?

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