My USGI rhino arm set up is adequate.  I find myself drooling over the more modern mount systems.  I've googled, you tubed, read threads.  Here's another....my apologies.  Santa is looking for something to bring me.  Will I be wowed if I get one?  Does TNVC have arfcom discount on these?  Is it correct that I'll need a dual dovetail adapter?  Talk me down or push me over the edge.

Am I missing a more functional less expensive option?  Arrrrrrg!

If you're satisfied with your current rig, no need to invest another $700 to make it "better."

You'll need either a Wilcox dovetail J-arm or the Norotos Dual Dovetail mount to make it work in addition to the INVG.

Also, I cannot run the INVG on the TW Ballistic, at least with the Wilcox J-Arm. It holds a PVS-14 too far forward away from my face.

I'm not real happy with the adjustability of my current setup.  Helmet is a Rabintex high cut ballistic.  Ps- I love Star Trek

I think you need to define what shortcomings of the Rhino you want to address.  

Full disclosure - for single tube use, I find the INVG plus either dual dovetail or Wilcox J arm to be clearly superior to everything else I've tried.  For dual tube systems, I have gravitated towards the Wilcox G24.  If I needed a mount to do both, I'd be the G24 plus Wilcox J arm.

Vs the Rhino - If you are looking for a more robust and solid mount, the INVG is it.  It has less flex and movement by far.    If you want the smallest available stowed profile, the INVG is the best available.   The adjustability is much greater than the Rhino as well.  Ability to quickly switch eyes with the goggle on the fly, INVG force to overcome makes that simple.

Is the Rhino functional? Of course.  I started with one too - and still have one for a loaner.  Would I buy the INVG again to replace it? Every day of the week.

Unlike Horta, I use it on the TW Exfil, PT Bravo, and OC FAST Ballistic equally well.  

The closest competition in my experience would be the G24 which only gives up the small stowed profile vs the INVG.  It has a different manual of arms, with push buttons instead of force to overcome - but that is really just a training issue.

Try a Rino 2. Head and shoulders better then the original and cheap. Like sub $100.

I think the INVG is the BEST single tube mount but its also really expensive but I do have one and its the first one I grab.
For value I thin k it's hard to beat a RINO 2(Look on EGAY)

I also have a problem with the Wilcox j arm being too far forward, I like the Norotos  Dual Dovetail for a dovetail mount.

The big question is what are you trying to improve?

If you are looking for height adjustment, you may want to consider lower cost replacements for the USGI rhino, such as the AKA2, TATM, Rhino II, or Wilcox G11.  The three Norotos types are commonly available in the used marketplace.

If you are looking to swap from bayonet type interface to dovetail, then the INVG and Wilcox G24 also come into play, and the G11 gets eliminated from consideration.  It seems that most folks consider the dovetail interface "vastly superior", but I am in the very distinct minority that does not.  It is more challenging to engage by muscle memory as it is more sensitive to pitch, but that is mostly a training issue.  Folks claim a tighter interface, which can actually sometimes be detrimental.

The main reason that I haven't fully embraced dovetail is the lack of options for connection to the device (assuming PVS-14).  The Wilcox I-arm (as I refer to it) generally does not provide proper eye relief, to which Horta alludes.  The Norotos dual dovetail puts the controls in an awkward position rotationally, and only one of the two shoes has adjustment for inter-pupillary adjustment.  The Wilcox J-arm has that stupid switch thing that either requires a push button raise/lower type mount, or simply cutting the pigtail off, and I can't bring myself to spending $200 for their J-arm when the USGI J-arms are $20.  Whenever either Norotos or Wilcox comes out with a simple cost effective dovetail J-arm for the PVS-14, it will be the cat's meow....we all well know that y'all monitor this forum.

If you are looking for push button raise/lower versus force-to-overcome, the choices are AKA2, TATM, and G24.  This is particularly useful on the Crye Nightcap, but you indicate a helmet based application.

I have used all of these mounts, and they all have their pros & cons; mount selection has a whole lot to do with individual preference:



Then there are secondary considerations as far as which hand and mechanism you operate the controls such as pitch (quite important to me), ER, release/engage, etc.

Personally, I run probably the oddest combination known to mankind in the form of an INVG, a Wilcox dovetail-to-bayonet adapter, and a USGI J-arm on my helmet.  I also run a Norotos AKA2 with USGI J-arn on my Nightcap.  

Rhino 2  is 10x better than the rhino, I'd start there as a cheap upgrade. I want a INVG, but the rhino 2 is doing the job just fine.

Great advice and thanks to all.  I'm going to use the upgrade on a single tube PVS-14.  My concerns with the rhino 1 are:
-it's wobbly at the J arm.  I was able to take a lot of slop out with bungees, so wobbly isn't a huge factor.
-I'm not able to easily adjust the scope so I get an easy to maintain full view through the occular.  I usually end up adjusting my helmet/chinstrap to get it close and that usually doesn't last or makes the helmet not as "comfortable as it could be if I had a more adjustable mount.

I wear a size 7 5/8-7 3/4 hat and I usually have to open up binoculars all the way to have them fit my eyes.  I don't know if that information influences the options or not?  It's very hard to get the original rhino set for easy full field viewing and maintain it.

Pics of helmet setup to follow.

Absolutely love my INVG, I was shocked at how much better I liked it over the rhino mount.  I thought the rhino did a decent job until I got the INVG and realized just how bad the rhino was.  There are no issues for me using it on a TW LTP with the dual dovetail.

I've seen plain old, standard J-Arms with dovetail interfaces - why they're not more more commonly available/marketed/produced, I have no idea - it seems like a no-brainer.  



Just to add a little bit to this - the "premium" mounts are all... well, premium mounts, they're all, IMHO, vast improvements over the legacy Rhino - and all will offer more adjustability than the legacy mount, and probably feel a lot more sturdy, as well.  As for which one to choose - in a lot of ways, it's the question of which features you're looking for and/or which ones are most important to you that will really make the difference between them - to me, the "secondary considerations" that murderman is talking about can help guide your decision.  

The biggest and most obvious difference is push button versus force-to-overcome.  

Force-to-overcome is exactly what it sounds like, and what the legacy mount uses - you just push up on it with enough force to overcome the locking mechanism, and it moves and locks into place at the other end of its travel - this has several advantages in terms of preventing breakage, simplicity of controls, and manual of "arms."  That being said, personally, I prefer push-button stowage and deployment, which tends to be more rigid when deployed, and doesn't require much force at all to move as long as the button control is depressed.  

The Legacy Rhino, RHNO II, INVG, and G11 are all FTO, while the TATM, AKA2, and G24 are all push button mounts.

Another issue is the pitch adjustment - namely - and this will be a personal preference issue for the most part - which side would you prefer to have it on, i.e. which hand would you use to adjust the pitch if you had your choice?  This might depend on whether you're left or right handed and/or if you would prefer to adjust with your support hand or strong hand.  Personally, being a righty, I prefer a right side adjustment so that I can adjust with my strong hand, and get a more precise adjustment - it's also one of the adjustments I find myself using most frequently "in the field" compared to the other adjustments, as the proper pitch can vary depending on position - more so, IMHO, than elevation or eye relief.  

The TATM, AKA2, and G24 all have right side pitch adjustment, while the Legacy Rhino, RHNO II, INVG, and G11 have them on the left.  

Another minor note about the pitch adjustments - Norotos tends to use nice, big, wide, flat paddles for their pitch adjustments, versus the much smaller "wingnut" of the Wilcox versions.

Those are the two real big ones to me because they're the ones I tend to use most often - but there are also a couple of other considerations in terms of human engineering -

Elevation Adjustment - the two major types are what I like to call "on the fly" and the Norotos-style screw adjustment - in the case of the "on the fly" elevation adjustment, a big lever is used to release the mount, and the mount can be slid up and down to set the desired elevation, while the TATM, INVG, and AKA2 feature a screw that can be used to precisely dial in the desired elevation, but cannot be adjusted quite as quickly.  

Eye Relief Adjustment - infinite adjustment versus notches, and adjustment method - once again, personal preference, but the RHNO II and AKA2 allow for "infinite" adjustment along their track, while all the rest feature a set number of notches placed at intervals where the eye relief can be set to.  The Legacy Rhino, TATM, and INVG feature a spring loaded lever that is depressed to move the device, while the AKA2 and RHNO II use a rotating lever, and both Wilcox mounts need to be "pinched" from both sides.  

Mount and Device Release - the Wilcox mounts use a crossbar release - and at least the earlier G24s were depressed on the same side as the push button stow/deploy (left) to release the mount - a point which murderman has been vociferous in his objections to,  but I understand that newer production ones have reversed this.  Not sure about the G11.  On the Norotos mounts a spring loaded bar moving from right to left (assuming you're using the AKA2 shroud interface with the TATM).  The device release is slightly different on each mount as well.  

Finally - some of the mounts each have their own "special features" and different profiles when stowed - the INVG, as has been mentioned, has the swivel, the AKA2 has an intermediate locked position, while the G24 has a breakaway feature.  

In the end, it's all personal preference, but there are some things you can think about when trying to select which "premium" mount to spend the not insignificant amount of money on.  The ideal solution, of course, would be to try them all out and take them out for a couple nights and run 'em through their paces, but it's not always feasible to do.  

~Augee

Excellent post Augee.  

For reference, the G11 is right side release, left side engage....the opposite of that stupid [now apparently fixed by Wilcox] early model G24 that I sent you to test out.

I agree, very nicely articulated. . Pun intended.

Wonderfully helpful information.  I bought a wilcox dovetail arm off the EE.  That narrows my decision some.  Leaning INVG, but still researching.

Are there better mounts out there than the Rhino? yes, absolutely!

Is it worth paying $500-700 to upgrade to a better mount? Not really.

if you are LEO/MIL and use it for your job or go out hunting nightly it would be worth the expense, but if youre like me, and just do a little target shooting a few times a year its really no necessary. If i have some money burning a hole in my pocket i would probably upgrade my mount but right now cash is tight and my Rhino and J-arm came free with my PVS-14 and work good enough so im in no rush to replace it.

Nortoros INVG -> Hell Yes!

my question is related to the topic but slightly different.

im in the same boat and what catches my attention about the INVG is the ability of it to "swing" to the side so to speak.

my eyes are a little closer together than normal I supposed, the rhino sets it at about 90% the way it needs to but im not sure if the INVG will cure this and get it completely over my eye.



to simplify my problem, imagine holding a pair of folding binoculars and collapsing them to fit the distance of your eyes. this is what I need, to collapse more towards my nose.

I looked at the mod armory mount at knob creek and it will do exactly what I need, but to outfit that for my single pvs14 would be a 700ish dollar investment and that mount is heavy.

thoughts?

The dual dovetail has adjustable IPD if you can tolerate the very awkward location of the controls.

I don't have any problems with the controls, but I adapt to things pretty quickly. The INVG is NOT universally adjustable on the rotation. It has detents that won't really allow you to rotate it in small increments like you're thinking. That's where the Norotos DD mount works like no other. The IPD allows you to move it off your nose or closer in with about, roughly, 3/4-inch of adjustment.

Mod Armory dual PVS 14 mount might solve your issues.

Look what I just won.

Non Wilcox Dovetail J-arm


I've never seen one of these. Hopefully it's cool. It should fix my problem with the Wilcox being too far away.

That's freaky! Never seen one. If another pops up, buy a few and send me a couple.

I had to keep it a secret til I won it. Only one available.

You know I would have taken care of you if there were extras.


Edit: I messages them to ask if there were any more available, and they only had the one.

They were made for the Cadex mount and kind of suck. They are flimsy like a regular J-Arm. However, for $25 who cares?  You'll get plenty of life out of it and it beats $200+ for the Wilcox J-Arm!

I saw that one.  Someone had referenced-maybe in this thread-a non-wilcox dovetail arm.

I have a couple of Wilcox J-Arms that I've bought used here and there. I still greatly prefer the Norotos DD, so they don't get much use. Since I rarely run single tubes, I don't get much use out of any of them, but they make great hand-outs when guys come over.

I think I'm the only one in North Alabama with NV, which is how I get my friends.  

I cant get the nod close enough to my eye for my preference with the Wilcox J-Arm, so I prefer the DD as well. But, for those rare occasions where I run a monocular, I usually just run one 14 on a MOD dual bridge. I like the flexibility it provides.

I'm much the same. Especially on a ballistic helmet, I can't get the NOD close enough using the Wilcox arm with the INVG.

One of the things I really like about the INVG mount is that it keeps the PVS-14 in a position that is closer to the profile of the helmet when in the retracted position. This aids in reducing the probability of accidently hitting the NODs into the top of doorways and the top of vehicles when transitioning in and out.

I just went through the mount ordering thing.    Liked the INVG but am returning it.   I decided to go dual 14s.  Went with Wilcox G24 and the mod armory bridge.  If anyone has a PVS14 and thinks he may want to go to two units, run this setup.   The mod armory bridge can be used with one monacle and will do the same thing as the INVG by folding close to the helmet.  Horta was right.  INVG and dual units is suboptimal

Well, I made my decision.  I ordered an INVG from the TNVC gang today.  Should be here on or before Tuesday.

I've got both, but have used the on/off arm very little. Trying them both last night, it seems like it gets the 14 about 1/8th closer to the eye.

While there are things I would change on it, the G24 is still so far my favorite mount that I've tried, despite the fact that I don't even own one yet.    

The MOD Armory PVS-14 bridge was a nice piece of equipment - but combined with PVS-14s - it's just so heavy, though that's not all the bridge's fault.  Because of the independent controls and power supply - dual PVS-14s get real heavy real fast.  

I'm still interested in seeing what the Wilcox bridge looks like when it's released as well as the AB Night Vision MOD-3 as ways to avoid having to buy another tube and monocular and get a dedicated bino - and keeping the weight down.  The N-Vision mount is probably about as light as you can get other than perhaps the Night Vision Depot "S-Arm," but I a) hate USGI-style J-Arms, and b) hate the USGI bayonet interface.  

~Augee

I've used the INVG and the G24.  Although there are lots of things to like about the Norotos, the G24 is my pick between the two. $.02.

The G24 is a much better option now that the original fundamental design flaw seems to have been addressed.

+1

Do you mean better than it used to be or better than the INVG?

I meant that the newer G24 with the left side engage / right side disengage is much better than the older G24 with the stupid design of having the disengage control next to the raise/lower push button on the left side.  I still prefer the INVG over the newer G24, but I don't use binocs.

I run mono only, too.  After dropping the money, I hope it is a big improvement over the original USGI rhino.  From everyone's input and what I've read, it should be.

I can't recall the last time that I saw an INVG for sale in the used marketplace.....that says a lot.