There is consistent discussion about counterweights on the rear of helmets to "balance" the weight of NODs hanging off the front, particularly in the context of duals.

I am pretty sure that we all live in a gravity-present 3D world, 4D including time.

Using typical terms, that means pitch, roll, and yaw influences.

The counterweights may be beneficial for the pitch axis motion, but what about the other two?

In the roll axis, ALL of the weight for BOTH the NOD AND the counterweight is in play.  Lay on your side, and a heavy rig is just plain heavy.

Considering physiological geometry, the yaw axis tends to be more inertia related, which is a function of mass and rotational velocity.  Swinging ones head around with a bunch of extra weight on it can be detrimental from a cervical vertebrae perspective.

There is no "free lunch".  

One response might be to "grow a pair" and strengthen one's neck muscles; the other might be to keep the rig as light as reasonably possible overall.

I have thought about that too and wondered if there would be a mechanical solution to it. I haven't come up with anything usable, but for example if the counterweight was attached to your helmet via a bungee cord and was in your backback or something like that, you could yaw without problems.

Articulating, gyro-stabilized helmet rig.

You're the engineer. I'll expect a working prototype when I get out there.

Just to add some figures to this discussion of some commonly used helmet accessories that I could find the weights for -

(all figures taken from the internet - anyone with actual access to a scale - feel free to weigh your components and chime in with them and I can correct them as they go along)

NODs:

AN/PVS-7 - 23.9 ounces
AN/PVS-14  - ~13 ounces
AN/AVS-6 - 18.7 ounces ("typical")
AN/PVS-15 - 22.9 - 25.6 ounces
BNVD-G - 22.9 ounces
Sentinels - 20.8 ounces
AN/PVS-21 - 26.8 ounces

Mounts:

Wilcox Industries G24 - 5.76 ounces
USGI Norotos Rhino - 5.4 ounces
Norotos INVG - 6.6 ounces
Wilcox "J" or "I" Arm - 2.08 ounces

N-Vision Dual PVS-14 Adapter - 3.3 ounces
N-Vision Advanced Dual PVS-14 Adapter - 4.4 ounces
IC/MOD Armory Dual PVS-14 Bridge Mount - 5.5 ounces

Helmets:

ACH - ~53 ounces
Ops Core FAST Ballistic - 47.3 ounces
Ops Core FAST Base Jump - 23.35 ounces
Crye Airframe - 40.8 ounces

Most counter weights tend to range in weight from a low end of 8 ounces to 24 ounces.  

The Adams Arms Air Ground Warrior Battery Pack is 6.8 ounces (empty) - 10.4 ounces (4x AA)  

Batteries:

AA - .81 ounces
AAA - .4 ounces
CR123 -  .6 ounces

TNVC appears to recommend -

1x PVS-14 - 8 ounces of counterweight (13::8) - 62% counterweight
PVS-15/BNVD - 16 ounces of counterweight (23::16) - 70% counterweight
PVS-21 - 24 ounces of counterweight (27::24) - 89% counterweight

AVS-6 - 10.4 ounces of counterweight (when used with battery pack - 18.7::10.4) - 56% counterweight


And because... why not?

I'm sure someone smarter than me can actually crunch this data, rather than just plotting it...




~Augee

if im the tester can I play with yer nods

on a serious note, I actually do lay on my side sometimes. When im not at my property I live in an apartment a few days a week.
I may or may not walk around with all the lights off at night.

usually sitting in the floor and look out off my balcony, I havent really noticed it being uncomfortable. Sure you have the weight on your head but it feels "right" and secure.

It would probably be tough for an extended time but 5-10 minutes is no biggie

There are plenty of good "engineers" in this forum, both degreed and practical.  My "working prototype" helmet rig is 51.1oz all in, including the "typical" accessories such as M1-IR on a QD mount, IR beacon, IFF patches, and dummy cord.  Nothing special, just towards the lighter side for a LSHD guy with spinal issues.

I guess for me, I don't lie on my side much with the NODs but I do move around a bit.  I've tried both with and without a counterweight - both a PVS14 and the Sentinels.  I find the counterweight to be much more comfortable for me overall.  This seems particularly true with duals based on last weekend's test.  The issue for me is not the total weight on my head but rather the balance of it under "normal" use and the fit of the helmet.  I do not have any spinal issues so of course YMMV.

As to helmet comfort and most robust suspension, based on use, I'd rank them Team Wendy, Ops Core, Protech in that order.

My military issue velcro pouch with flat lead plates in it weighs 15.7 ounces or 446 grams for the metric folks. I can open one side of the pouch and slide one of the three lead plates out. One plate weighs 128 (4.5 oz) grams the second plate weighs 134 grams (4.7 oz) and the third plate weighs 173 grams (6.1 oz) (needs to work out more). I didn't weigh the pouch but it is maybe 10 grams at most. I can adjust the weight by adding or removing the plates.

With my PVS-7 I run all three plates. Using a 14 or a micro I only use two of them. Just a guide as counterweight is personal preference.

Made a huge difference for me. In the past, if I wore my helmet for more than about 10 minutes, my neck would be sore. I did a night shoot recently and bought some counterweights beforehand. I wore the helmet for hours that night and my neck was barely tired at all the next week. No pain.

I can understand the whole counterweight thing with duals, but some of y'all actually use one with a monocular?

Yeah, I do, but it really isn't a requirement. Since I refuse to carry around dead weight, my counterweight is a Gerber multi tool lashed to the helmet.

I do.  It could be my cheap helmet (PT Alpha), but its pretty noticeable to my neck without a counterweight.  I like the weight coming straight down on my neck rather being all on the front.





CHRIS

Any time I'm going to be doing things at night, I have an MS2000 strobe, covered in Velcro - so it's too easy to just slap it on and have it pull dual duty as a counterweight and as a strobe.  

With a PVS-14, I don't know that counterweight is strictly necessary, but I've found that it is ultimately more comfortable during prolonged use, and it's functional and useful, and not some sort of dead weight and applicable to situations where you'd be using NV in the first place.

~Augee

I would imagine using an ACH vs a plastic helmet would make a big difference as well.

Honestly, I haven't personally noticed a significant difference when using an ACH versus using a bump helmet - obviously, you'll start to hurt/get sore quicker with more weight up top - but I'm inclined to think that how well that helmet fits on your head vis a vis suspension system and pads makes a much bigger difference.  While the helmet itself does add some weight that might have some mitigating affect for the weight of the NODs, really, the "anchor" for the NOD is still your whole melon, and the difference in the helmet weight doesn't make as big of a difference, IMHO, compared to the cantilevered, offset weight sticking off of your forehead.  

What, IMHO, the counterweight is really "fighting" is the tendency of the helmet to want to "rotate" forward on your head, which, regardless of the helmet weight, it will want to do anyways when you stick a heavy weight on one end.  

I will say that my ACH(s) have their issued four-point suspension systems replaced with Ops Core H-Napes - and since making that change - I don't think I could ever go back, and I tried on my old PASGT with the PVS-14 on it the other day - and all I can say is "wow."    

~Augee

I use one on my single pvs14 with ops core. It's a place to put spare batteries.

Use a small velcro pouch with a pair of 18650 batts and a white tac light.  I don't see a point adding more dead weight when items that are normally carried can be used.
Just a matter of attaching them in a secure way as to not bounce around. The balance front to back helps me out, I put the helmet on and very seldom use any straps with a counter weight. The helmet sits just right on my lumpy head.
I use the helmet for 3-5hrs no problems, driving the vehicle and walking around, will switch between pvs14 and a ps32 thermal both are mounted on a j arm, so change out is quick.

Just a small velcro admin pouch with spare batteries. I have the OSOE MS2000/battery pouch, but it is too much, and too bulky.

Intelligence is gleaned by keeping an open mind...

Another member has graciously sent me some "proper" stuff to experiment with, rather than my simply velcro'ing on random objects.

To be perfectly honest, the status quo of no counterweight has been working great for years, but there is always the possibility for further refinement.

The helmet fit is huge here.  If it's loose and no weight it will move down on you.  I can use my pvs7 with no weight just fine unless I do more than walk.   Nothing pisses me off more than trying to jog or run to cut off some moving swine and I have to use one hand to push them back up so I can see.  With the weight I can run full bore in knee high grass and boots and not have to adjust the goggles at the end.  

Thanks again to tnvc for the helmet size I was on the line and would have gone with a med but they said I wanted a large and it fits great.

I use one on mine.  I don't need it to use the helmet, but it evens out the weight, and that makes for a more comfortable time wearing the helmet.