Ok so I bought a M-24 in 320 and it will be headed my way next week.
I have reviewed old posts on the helmet mounting of the M-24 and saw where "Murderman" posted his helmet mounted using standard NV mounts which caused the image to be slightly askew ie not level.

I know Wilcox came out with a mount and I have seen the video by "Wiseguy", but he never conveys and I have not read that when the unit is upside down does it automatically flip (invert) the image.
I assume it does or it would be ridiculous looking at things upside down.

So my two questions are.
#1 Can someone confirm that when the unit is flipped upside down does the electronics automatically flip the image?
#2 What would be the best way to mount a M-24 and a  PVS-14 together?

I would like the ability to mount them together and have the ability to flip one or both up and out of the way if I want to go the NV or thermal scope.
Not to be a jerk but I have been around a long time so I do not need a lecture about navigating with thermal or how the human eye will not fuse the two together, as neither is my issue or concern.
Most of my predator hunting is done from a fixed position, usually a tree stand because of the bear issues in my area so just want to
have the ability to mount both.

Could the Mod Armory dual PVS 14 mount be adapted to work some how or is there something else out their I am not aware of. I know Wilcox make a mount that allows a SKEETIR and a PVS together as a dual system.

Thanks

What about menu items? Will they invert?

CTM1,

Like you, I have been toying with the idea of simultaneously helmet mounting a PVS-14 and an M24 for quite some time.  Several very knowledgeable folks have advised that it is probably not the best idea, and with quite valid reasons.  That said, I'll approach the topic from a "cup half full" perspective, instead of my usual cynicism, because you are well aware of the challenges.

Regarding the image orientation, it will always be "upright" regardless of how the M24 axis is rolled, whether it be 10, 67, 153, 248, 324, etc. degrees from the "normal" orientation....same as with an I^2 monocular.  What does change is the orthogonality of the rectangular view screen, which is no big deal to me.

Vic makes an excellent point regarding recording; I hadn't thought about that, since my success recording with the M24 has been a dismal failure so far.

Horta, there are no menus on the M24.  There is an on/off switch, a white/black hot button, a manual calibration button, a display brightness control, and a digital zoom button.  That is the beauty of the M24; it is stupid simple to operate, and most definitely hardened, as well as being compact and lightweight.  The "downside" is limited range with the 19mm lens.

CTM1, you are correct in recognizing that image fusion will not occur.  That is actually a good thing since the mag of the M24 is ~0.9x.....it would be one helluva fupped duck fused image!  You also recognize that nav with thermal can be treacherous.....I seem to recall BushmanLA confirming that not too long ago.  Another consideration is wiping out night adjustment of both eyes, which is one of the reasons that I prefer monoculars instead of binocs in general.

I looked at the Wilcox M24 mount, and I like the modular approach.  What I don't like is the fact that it isn't flip-out-of-the-FOV.  Vic has teased about some upcoming new PVS-14 mount from Wilcox, so hopefully it will also be modular and FOOTFOV.

I have come to the conclusion for the time being that this is a solution in search of a problem, much like all too many things on arfcom.

I run a -14 on the helmet for nav, a D-740 on the 6.8 SBR for engagement, and carry the M24 in a hip pouch for intermittent scanning while static.  This all seems to work pretty well, and is KISS as well as providing a level of redundancy.

Maybe one of these days we will figure out a really slick way to run a PVS-14 and M24 helmet mounted simultaneously, but in the meanwhile I have to keep asking myself why?

OK, now I'm interested. I would LOVE that type of simplicity.

Also, while I know you can't really "run" both i^2 and thermal together in a non-fusion arrangement, I like the idea of being able to flip either up or down independently instead of having to fish for a monocular to scan with, the go back to NV. The hot-swap of both seems to have real advantages.

Also, maybe a PVS-21 with eHUD and helmet-mounted (on top or the side perhaps?) M24 might just be too good a possibility to NOT get.

Calling Vic  

For me I have always wanted a helmet mounted thermal so I can scan with minimal movement, just a turning of the head but still have NV.

I will figure out some way to mount the two and see how it plays out. I have no doubt I will also figure out that the two together will weigh to much.

PS now that TheHorta has chimed in I will let him be the beta tester.  

Horta, I leave the PVS-14 on and in place in front of my non-dom left eye all of the time.  When I want to thermal scan, just grab the M24 from the molle AITES pouch on the right hip, and switch it on in front of the right eye.  Since I am profoundly right eye dominant, the I^2 image just disappears.  When done scanning and ready to move again, re-holster the M24, and the left eye takes back over while the right one readjusts to night adaptation for enhanced peripheral vision.  It is not nearly as sophisticated as the stuff that you run, but it works very well for me.  There is also no interference with the D-740, since the M24 is pouched up at the time of engagement, or possibly just tossed to the ground for later recovery if a quick shot is in order.

While the M24 is comparatively expensive for its on-paper specs, it has subtle talents that are only realized after using in the field.

When are we all getting together?

While I've neglected it, I'm still interested in converting a better mount (LaRue, Bobro, etc) for the PAS line as well. I have a nice, new Bobro QD ACOG mount that I don't use that looks like all it would need is a skilled hand on a drill press to punch one hole and there she goes!

If that is an official invite, maybe I need to see if there are any airports near you that I can use my FF miles to?  Will also need to process a Form 20.

I am using a Bobro host on the M845 due to the low hanging battery housings, but have LT on all of the low profile 740 mounts that have been made.

Sorry to quote the whole thing. You can actually run a thermal on one eye and a 14 on the other and have it kind of work. (I said kind of). You can spend $5 and make it work much better.  I played with it for a while out of curiosity and found that it would screw my brain up to have two drastically different colors, one on each eye. If you get some green light filter and make a "amber filter", but green, I found I can actually get a homogeneous image. You still have all of the other issues of trying to nav with a thermal, but to me that made a huge difference. If you want to try it, I have some of the green filter material left from my experimenting. I can cut you a piece off and mail it to you to do your own testing.

Delta4-3,
Sent you an email
Thanks

One would have to be a fool to decline such a gracious offer, and hopefully that I am not.  I will IM shipping details.

Thank you for this; I am much more of a "green glow" kind of guy than a thermal one.

Is there something which I may do to return the favor?

Got it, I'll send you some. However, there is an extra digit in your zip code!

It's because he has six fingers.

Hey now, that is much more common than you might think.

There is someone who I know well that was born with six fingers on each hand [actually five fingers + one opposable thumb].  The delivery doc reluctantly mentioned it to her mother, and the response was to just "cut the extra ones off" as they had done for her 20-something years earlier.

My name is Inigo Montoya.  You killed my father.  Prepare to die.

I was waiting for that to show up in this thread.  

Delta,

I received the filter materials that you sent the other day....thank you!  You were generous to send large enough pieces to allow for a bit of trial & error [will probably be more of the latter], as well as sharing with local enthusiasts.

I have just gotten around to playing with them a little bit tonight.  I don't care for the orange one bit, but I do find the green to be quite "soothing" to the eye.  Maybe it is just that I have become so accustomed to the green glow of I^2.

It was in the 90's here today, and the sun hasn't yet set, so there isn't a whole lot of thermal contrast available just now, but the green filter does seem to help maybe a little in that regard....it certainly doesn't hurt.

It would seem that optimal thickness would be somewhere between the green and the orange.  You did mention that you had other specimens inbound, so presumably you have made the same observance.

I am not quite sure about how to most effectively implement on the M24, but rest assured that the creative brainwaves are flowing.  What is the best method that you have found so far for cutting the thick stuff into circular shapes?  It seems to be polycarbonate-ish in nature, so maybe scoring and "cracking" like with plate glass, followed by finish shaping with a relatively fine grit sander?



CTM,

Have you done any experimenting with the stuff that Delta sent to you?

My neighbor picked up my mail and he and I have not caught up yet. Hopefully this weekend I will get to see.

My pleasure, if you need more, or a source, say the word. I got 4 more potential materials in, but they are sub par. One was a green light filter for a camera, and I was surprised at the amount of light loss.
I didn't think about scoring it and breaking it out. Here is what I did, and it was a pain in the ass. I took a hole saw for a hand drill and took the pilot bit out. I used one a bit oversized and cut a plug out. I then rigged a small rod to a suction cup and stuck the suction cup to the plug I cut out. Next, I chucked up said rod in my lathe and spun it while lightly sanding the plug into a perfectly round disc the proper size. There has to be a better way, but I tend to find the hardest way to do stuff. It's my redneck nature.
I really wish I could find the same material but a fraction of the thickness. I haven't been successful yet, but it has to be out there somewhere.

I think the orange has promise if you are used to running Wilcox amber filters. But with that particular film, there is no good way to secure it, and durability is not a word that can be used in the same sentence with it.

I'll update as soon as I find something better.

Delta mentioned a green material to try out.
Without looking it up wasn't some of the early thermal on a green screen?
Curious why they went a different direction in the new stuff

Yes, military thermals, and the W1000-9 had a green filter to make the transition from nv to thermal easier, and to make it easier on your eyes.

Here is a cheap camera filter I am experimenting with now. It has a little more light loss than the polycarbonate(ish) material, but is thinner. I think some of it may have to do with it being a darker green. Worst case scenario I can throw it on my Canon 5D and take some pictures in broad daylight and sell them to a NV company as NV advertising pics!

Light loss shouldn't really be that significant of an issue, since this is on the ocular side versus objective, and the display of the M24 can be plenty bright if adjusted as such, particularly if one's eye is night adapted.  The darker green wouldn't bother me at all; I prefer the darker green of my OMNI IV versus the yellowish-green of later tubes.

Following your lead, I pulled out all of my optical filters and started trying them:
-UV haze did pretty much nothing as expected
-720 was opaque as expected
-the (4) Leupy Alumina were all about as expected
-the LIF was interesting, not as expected, but also not beneficial

If you take any pics as highlighted above, please make sure that there is a majestic animal in each of them....my preference is the elk versus the wolf or hog.  

Agreed. I think the only time the light loss would be an issue is on something like the RS where it doesn't get very bright. That is purely conjecture though, before I get attacked, because I haven't tried it on the RS.
I am going to up my game and get a picture of an elephant fighting a giraffe. Does anyone have a cool crosshair I can use for the pic?

I don't know if you have messed around with running the I^2 and thermal with a filter at the same time yet, but if you did, did you notice it being easier to get a homogenous image verses the "picture in picture" look ?

I got that green camera filter on Amazon. It was $9 but came with several colors. I tried them all out of curiosity. All I can say is green or orange are the only way to go. Blue thermal images just don't jive.

Now where on Earth are you going to find a giraffe stupid enough to fight an elephant.....maybe in the Lost City of ATlaNtis?

I haven't tried the filtered thermal simultaneously with the I^2 yet.  I seriously doubt that it will do any good for superimposition in my particular case, as I am PROFOUNDLY right eye dominant.  If I put any image brighter than darkness in front of the right eye, the left one essentially goes "blind" for all practical purposes.

I played with the green filter material a bit more this evening....scoring and breaking is just like typical plate glass...super duper easy!  

With about 2 minutes effort, I had a rough shape close enough to fit into a standard PVS-14 eyecup.

I am really, really liking the green thermal!  

Haven't tried it simultaneous with a PVS-14 yet, but that won't matter; I will be using it this way regardless.  Thank you so much for this extremely cheap, easy, and effective mod for my M24.  

Ok I have had the M24 for all of a day and my eye to it for about 5 minutes so far. So I broke out the amber and green material that Delta sent me. The amber material is not for me but I am going to try it behind the PVS-14. Now the green material makes the image familiar as I have been using NV since 94/95. I simply held the material up to the back of the M24 to get a feel for it. I felt as if it helped to make the hot objects stand out better with very little loss of definition. It also seemed to have cut down on some of the white noise a little.

Delta4-3 made a few suggestions on how to work the material and attach it so I am going to see which will work best. I like the hole saw idea.

Thanks Delta4-3

Awesome! I'm glad it's working well! CTM1, if you need some more mean green, I have more. I think a scroll saw would work pretty well too, my hands just shake too bad so it would look morel like a Skill saw blade than it would a circle!
Don't be shy, hit me up if you need more. Or, measure what size circle piece you need and I can cut a couple for you.