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Posted: 7/18/2014 4:36:45 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd guess the night sights would give a huge bloom that close. Probably have to cover them up with tape to use the IR laser. Even the IR laser will probably have big bloom close up on reflective targets
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Posted: 7/18/2014 4:40:19 PM EDT
[#2]
The laser (CMR 201IR) does bloom quite a bit. If I am lucky, I may get to try it tomorrow at an indoor range.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 4:48:12 PM EDT
[#3]
A RMR works incredibly well.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 4:54:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Good point about RMR. I just tried night sights. They actually work. The image is a little "blloomy" but I am able to see the three dots distinctly.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 6:14:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good point about RMR. I just tried night sights. They actually work. The image is a little "blloomy" but I am able to see the three dots distinctly. Yeah they do work pretty well. I was impressed by the RMR. It doesn't bloom at all. It is somewhat tricky sometimes to index correctly and see the dot. Plus side is if you have a monocular you might be able to pick it up with either eye. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 7:42:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? It absolutely has value! |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 8:04:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It absolutely has value! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? It absolutely has value! Can you elaborate? What scenarios/conditions? |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 9:04:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Go to this thread below and scroll down and watch the first vid. You will see a pistol mounted IR laser being used. It is fast, can be fired from any position.
You can also see the bloom or Halo. I do not know what IR laser unit was used but most are to powerful and thus put off a bloom. Does it make the laser unusable, no but the introduction of additional IR illumination helps eliminate it. As I recall a couple of companies are working on lower powered Class 1's to help eliminate this. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/428037_New_Unity_Glock_23_NVG_Capable_Hush_Puppy.html |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 10:30:46 PM EDT
[#9]
It's possible to reduce the output of your ir laser so it's more usable at closer range.
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:36:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? Some folks say they can use their pistol night sights, but it doesn't work for me. An IR laser is the way to go. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 7:30:37 AM EDT
[#11]
I have a setup like this. It works.
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Posted: 7/19/2014 11:22:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? More stuff has been killed on my ranch from this combo than everything else combined. 
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Posted: 7/19/2014 12:33:27 PM EDT
[#13]
The big advantage of the IR laser is that you are on a singular plane of focus. You are looking at the target, your NVG is focused there, and your dot is there. With night sights, a RMR, etc, that sighting system is in a different place and may not be in focus.
Another advantage is you do not need any sort of weapon alignment in order to see your point of impact. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 3:06:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The big advantage of the IR laser is that you are on a singular plane of focus. You are looking at the target, your NVG is focused there, and your dot is there. With night sights, a RMR, etc, that sighting system is in a different place and may not be in focus. Another advantage is you do not need any sort of weapon alignment in order to see your point of impact. To be clear : With RMR. you are also in a single focal plane As has been pointed out, night sights can work but take practice and are tough to be precise. With infinity focus, the night sight dots are more like olympic rings than dots under goggle. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:27:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be clear : With RMR. you are also in a single focal plane Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The big advantage of the IR laser is that you are on a singular plane of focus. You are looking at the target, your NVG is focused there, and your dot is there. With night sights, a RMR, etc, that sighting system is in a different place and may not be in focus. Another advantage is you do not need any sort of weapon alignment in order to see your point of impact. To be clear : With RMR. you are also in a single focal plane He is saying you do not even have to look at your gun/sights with a laser. This is very handy with a pistol since you can point it in all different directions with ease. For example I can use a tree for cover, look around right side and shoot around the left side. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:38:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Just tried PVS14/nigh sights at the range. Definitely NO GO. While I could pick the night sights up, it took too long and they were too faint. Of course, I left the lazer at home, so couldn't try it the other way.
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:44:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is saying you do not even have to look at your gun/sights with a laser. This is very handy with a pistol since you can point it in all different directions with ease. For example I can use a tree for cover, look around right side and shoot around the left side. I understand what he is saying. He said RMRs required dual plane focus which is not true. His other point about lasers making it easier for positional shooting is true as you point out. Bloom from IR lasers makes a much larger and less precise dot than the RMR. See Goterone's videos in this thread for an excellent comparison at pistol ranges. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/428037_New_Unity_Glock_23_NVG_Capable_Hush_Puppy.html |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 7:38:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just tried PVS14/nigh sights at the range. Definitely NO GO. While I could pick the night sights up, it took too long and they were too faint. Of course, I left the lazer at home, so couldn't try it the other way. I have no luck with NODs and night sights either. There is no "bloom" at all, and the focus issues make them unusable to me. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 5:39:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand what he is saying. He said RMRs required dual plane focus which is not true. His other point about lasers making it easier for positional shooting is true as you point out. Bloom from IR lasers makes a much larger and less precise dot than the RMR. See Goterone's videos in this thread for an excellent comparison at pistol ranges. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/428037_New_Unity_Glock_23_NVG_Capable_Hush_Puppy.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He is saying you do not even have to look at your gun/sights with a laser. This is very handy with a pistol since you can point it in all different directions with ease. For example I can use a tree for cover, look around right side and shoot around the left side. I understand what he is saying. He said RMRs required dual plane focus which is not true. His other point about lasers making it easier for positional shooting is true as you point out. Bloom from IR lasers makes a much larger and less precise dot than the RMR. See Goterone's videos in this thread for an excellent comparison at pistol ranges. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/428037_New_Unity_Glock_23_NVG_Capable_Hush_Puppy.html Renegade is correct you are reading into what I said. "With night sights, a RMR, etc, that sighting system is in a different place" |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:45:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? Using regular night sights over your dominant eye and night vision over the non dominant eye, absolutely does not work. (meaning not relying on your monocular eye to get the sight picture) Your brain doesn't superimpose the two images together. I have heard people argue it on here before, but believe me I have tested this theory with myself and multiple other students until I am blue in the face. Can you get rounds on paper on a human silhouette at 3 or 5 yards? sure, it isn't going to be with precision though. But that's not because your brain merges the images together to be useful. It's because your bodies natural ability to be able to line up the pistol at center mass at short distances. I am a huge fan of using red dot optics on pistols for night vision. I like this method and prefer it over an IR laser on the pistol, because I can use my red dot optic during day or night firing, whereas with the IR laser, I can only use it with night vision. For me, I can justify the red dot method over the IR laser, when it comes to a pistol. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:01:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IR only laser on handguns can be useful with NV, while shooting in traditional "stances" and even more helpful for unorthodox positions, where you can't necessarily orient your pistol out and extended. Using regular night sights over your dominant eye and night vision over the non dominant eye, absolutely does not work. (meaning not relying on your monocular eye to get the sight picture) Your brain doesn't superimpose the two images together. I have heard people argue it on here before, but believe me I have tested this theory with myself and multiple other students until I am blue in the face. Can you get rounds on paper on a human silhouette at 3 or 5 yards? sure, it isn't going to be with precision though. But that's not because your brain merges the images together to be useful. It's because your bodies natural ability to be able to line up the pistol at center mass at short distances. I am a huge fan of using red dot optics on pistols for night vision. I like this method and prefer it over an IR laser on the pistol, because I can use my red dot optic during day or night firing, whereas with the IR laser, I can only use it with night vision. For me, I can justify the red dot method over the IR laser, when it comes to a pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? Using regular night sights over your dominant eye and night vision over the non dominant eye, absolutely does not work. (meaning not relying on your monocular eye to get the sight picture) Your brain doesn't superimpose the two images together. I have heard people argue it on here before, but believe me I have tested this theory with myself and multiple other students until I am blue in the face. Can you get rounds on paper on a human silhouette at 3 or 5 yards? sure, it isn't going to be with precision though. But that's not because your brain merges the images together to be useful. It's because your bodies natural ability to be able to line up the pistol at center mass at short distances. I am a huge fan of using red dot optics on pistols for night vision. I like this method and prefer it over an IR laser on the pistol, because I can use my red dot optic during day or night firing, whereas with the IR laser, I can only use it with night vision. For me, I can justify the red dot method over the IR laser, when it comes to a pistol. as I am considering going into NV soon, is there a light involved? If it is very dark I have to guess IR light? |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 2:00:57 PM EDT
[#22]
If it's I^2 (image intensification) technology, then yes, you need at least some light. There are plenty of IR spectrum illuminators/flashlights and PVS14 aslo has its own illuminator.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:25:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More stuff has been killed on my ranch from this combo than everything else combined. http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Umbrarian/Guns/Glock-AA1722.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? More stuff has been killed on my ranch from this combo than everything else combined. http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Umbrarian/Guns/Glock-AA1722.jpg What holster are you using? Or are you?
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:55:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What holster are you using? Or are you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there much value in using an IR only laser on handguns in conjunction with monocular NVG? Would using regular night sights, combined with monocular NVG, allow the brain to "super imose" both images? More stuff has been killed on my ranch from this combo than everything else combined. http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Umbrarian/Guns/Glock-AA1722.jpg What holster are you using? Or are you? London Bridge. I use that mostly for pest control around house. When I see evidence of problems (digging, droppings, etc). I set up wireless IR camera near problem area which connects to my home network. Video feeds to app, app beeps when motion is detected. Then go out shoot, come back in and watch TV. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:26:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: London Bridge. I use that mostly for pest control around house. When I see evidence of problems (digging, droppings, etc). I set up wireless IR camera near problem area which connects to my home network. Video feeds to app, app beeps when motion is detected. Then go out shoot, come back in and watch TV. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By Renegade London Bridge. I use that mostly for pest control around house. When I see evidence of problems (digging, droppings, etc). I set up wireless IR camera near problem area which connects to my home network. Video feeds to app, app beeps when motion is detected. Then go out shoot, come back in and watch TV.  I need that. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:33:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use that mostly for pest control around house. When I see evidence of problems (digging, droppings, etc). I set up wireless IR camera near problem area which connects to my home network. Video feeds to app, app beeps when motion is detected. Then go out shoot, come back in and watch TV. What do you do with the bodies? You don't have a hog farm by chance, do you? 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:37:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you do with the bodies? You don't have a hog farm by chance, do you? Buzzards gotta eat, same as the worms (you knew I was going to write that). |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 10:29:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Renegade,
I like that setup. What type of IR unit is that? Something like that would rock with my pvs14. I've got unending coons around here. Neighbor shot 63 in 2 weeks near his silage pile and he wasn't even actively hunting them. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 10:34:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Renegade, I like that setup. What type of IR unit is that? Something like that would rock with my pvs14. I've got unending coons around here. Neighbor shot 63 in 2 weeks near his silage pile and he wasn't even actively hunting them. Renegade's Glock is sporting a UNI-IR laser. I have a couple, but for use on a pistol, the Crimson Trace Rail Master IR is better than the UNI, IMHO. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 10:49:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Renegade's Glock is sporting a UNI-IR laser. I have a couple, but for use on a pistol, the Crimson Trace Rail Master IR is better than the UNI, IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Renegade, I like that setup. What type of IR unit is that? Something like that would rock with my pvs14. I've got unending coons around here. Neighbor shot 63 in 2 weeks near his silage pile and he wasn't even actively hunting them. Renegade's Glock is sporting a UNI-IR laser. I have a couple, but for use on a pistol, the Crimson Trace Rail Master IR is better than the UNI, IMHO. Yep, AA 22LR kit, AAC/Prodigy Silencer. |
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