I'm so glad all the pertinent info in this thread has been edited out

good thing they caught those shills before a rash of pertinent technical information about image intensification broke out

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When the built in ir is on, it shows red dot at edge. Not sure if is supposed to show, but the ir illuminates good in small area. My Streamlight super tac ir came in the mail today. Gonna try it out tonight
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The red dot inside the tube is a little reminder that the IR is on.

I would be interested in knowing what, if any, PVS-14 mounts will work with the PS.  Is it going to be compatible with the various ring mounts?

Yes, the red dot means the IR is on. With the IR on you should see a crystal clear pic. The PS-14 is NOT a PVS-14. It is a Russian knockoff with a Russian tube. Works, but not high performing at all.

If you guys want to buy this stuff learn what it is ! We educate in the night vision forum free of charge. I don't make a dime off of who you buy from. Take that for what you feel it is worth. I only bash things that need bashing,


I have been lax in my old age. This thread has inspired me to engage back into the fight ! Let us talk facts ! I am tired of shills and misinformation. Ask away and we will see if the shills beat me. Should be fun.

I am tired of kid gloves. Show me tubes and specs and we will get to the truth ! Buy what you want but know what you are buying.  Let us get it on !!!  

Who are the shills? I am assuming the op is a shill. Who are the other shills? Is anyone who buys one of these and posts pics here considered a shill? Am I one of the shills? I have a Apex trigger kit that I installed in my m&p 9mm, maybe that qualifies me as a shill.
I see you post all over this forum and have already noticed that you give free education (some of the free shit you get now days is amazing)
Appears you are in the business of repairing nv. Do you have a company name or is it just dino1130? Looks like you drum up your business here on the nv forum. Are you paying the forum so you can promote your services? If not, what makes you entitled to free advertising?

I was very aware that the ps-14 is not pvs-14. Hunting, shooting, and reloading are some of my favorite hobbies. This is a hobby for fun, if I were using nv to protect my life or to make a livtng, I would have went straight to the most advanced technology.

Last night, I took out my new Streamlight Super Tac ir  ($114 shipped). I was impressed with how much further I could see. I was scanning a hillside at about 200 yards away, and it was lighting up really well. Looked like you would be able to detect critters that are rabbit sized or bigger.

Sorry for so many questions, but looks like you have all the answers.
And as far as you inspecting my tube, no thanks!

ETA

Actually his business you are speaking of is something he pretty much offers to people for practically nothing, if not outright free. Dino is a hardcore hobbyist through and through. Just observing his posts you can see he loves to get inside and tinker with things... As well as just helping people out because he can. Dino has given me some information on more than one occasion with zero expectation of anything in return, and I know he's given a hell of a lot of information to other people as well.

If he were operating a business off this model he would be one of the worst salesman I have ever seen.

I would go as far as calling this forum a community. You look at other forums and it's really just a medium for advertisement to reach a target demo. Here though you have the wide range of hobbyists, professionals who have used these devices, the envious internationals like myself, and that one dude who seems to have an endless wallet because he just bought yet another thermal. Everyone here enjoys night vision, genuinely cares for one another and is willing to help each other out. This is why you have some people take it personally when companies have, and will continue, to come in the forums and offer people subpar solutions are a premium price. No one wants to see someone drop 600 dollars on a Gen 1, and no one wants to hear how that 600 dollar purchase is one entirely of regret.

Dino is just looking out for people, and a number of people here respect him for precisely that.

What free stuff have I ever got ? I don't take "free" gear as a bribe for great reviews. Find one post where I have. I don't even do gear reviews. Maybe I should start so I can get some nice free stuff. I don't have all the answers but I know a few things. I think the "shills" were covered by all the edits in the previous pages. As far as what I do for a hobby, it is well known. I sell some parts for scopes on occasion in EE and fix a few things for members who contact me. I don't advertise or solicit anyone. If they contact me I help them. I also make next to nothing doing it. Enjoy your scope. I will stay out of this thread so as not to upset you.

After re-reading my previous post I was kind of harsh. I apologize for that. It was late and I was tired which makes me grumpy. No hard feelings and enjoy those scopes !

ETA: I do take "free" shit and I apologize. Larue sent me a dillo and some dust with some mounts I ordered. TNVC sent me some stickers, hat and a few patches over the years from other orders. Extent of my free shit collection. I need to work the system more.

ETAA : I got a Team Wendy T-shirt also (too small for me though)

Oops, I also have a Adam Industries ball cap (Adam gave it to me) and a TNVC T-shirt (nice T-shirt and it fits). Full disclosure of all my "free" stuff. Larue gave me a sticker with a order as well. NRA gave me some stickers but I am sure I paid for them with donations. If I find more "free" stuff I will update my post.


I was also messing with you guys a little in my previous post. Don't take me to serious as I am known to stir the pot once in awhile.

lol @ Horta.

I want to see and hear more about these devices.

before I jumped into nv, I read this sub forum a lot, but never posted. and speaking of this sub forum, it is only one of a handful of forums anywhere that deals with this stuff, and it is by far the most active and pertinent to US residents.

For a question about a large surplus lot of nv gear on the market to appear here is totally expected. For people that never posted in here to have questions about gear that costs 1/3 - 1/2 retail is also expected. apex is also a well known player in surplus stuff,  especially when it comes to parts kits and ak parts. i wouldnt be surprised if they were mentioned several times per day on this site in other threads and sub forums. and for a representative from apex, to end up here, the center of all nv information in the entire publically accessible universe, is also not at all strange.

i'd hate for this thread to get trashed because of purse swinging, as this is probably the first time these devices have ever been discussed at length on line.

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lol you paid for that dill and dust whether you like it or not


I think there is some good info in here. I play with NV in the military so I am eager to own a set. Definitely can't afford a brand new set but the Gen 2 looks promising.

Keep the reviews coming!!!

I didn't make the post about "getting stuff for free" but I'm going to assume he means we're all getting a free education from Dino, Vic, Sacha and the other guys who post here regular.  It's amazing what "you" can get for free probably means "we" or "me."

yea, I was just being sarcastic about receiving a free education from Dino. His continued negativity just irritated me. I really enjoy being a part of this forum, and always try to avoid confrontations, but I could not resist

I should probably continue to keep my mouth shut, but WTH... I'll toss my worthless pittance into the ring.

The ones who have been contributors here (amongst other forums as well) have been doing so for years. They have long memories and have "seen things" that made their stomachs churn and left a perpetually bad taste in their mouths. Now that some are actively seeking to repair that breach, these guys are not the water-under-the-bridge, let bygones be bygones, bury the hatchet types -- and I can't blame them.

To those who are recovering purveyors of NV snake oil (perceived or real), this kind of thing is a natural reflex, but it can be done. Old habits die hard, especially when there's money on the line.

Just expect to be under the scrutiny of their microscopes for a while to come.

It shouldn't be that hard to provide a spec sheet if you buy a gen 3 product, that kinda money and no authenticity doesn't make  good sense put the sheet In the box. Nobody has alliances with certain retailers they just know your company do something positive get rid of faulty advertising, gen 4,ridiculous pictures  better customer  service and you'll get respect

Satchal, I can tell the difference between 64 lp/mm and 72 and I wear glasses and have old guy eyes. If you focus in on fine detailed things such as a leaf you can tell. I concede it is not a glaring difference and in general viewing most can't tell. I have said before that a 64 lp/mm tube is just fine and I would not need 72 or pay extra for it.

How can I make the claim "Works, but not high performing at all" ?? Well, I have used these tubes before and was not impressed. In the photo of the PS-14 in this thread it clearly says CGTI on the side of the scope. So I strolled over to your website to see a PDF file on CGTI tubes. The first thing staring me in the face are nice pictures of Russian tubes. My experience with these tubes has never been good. I have repaired a few ATN scopes over the years and sadly some needed new tubes because the power supply went poof. These tubes power supply's have been less than stellar in my limited experience with them.

I have heard that has improved but I won't buy one until I see a proven track record. I like a few well made Russian housings and optics but I don't trust the tubes electronics. Let us get to the specs of the tubes now. Nobody will ever know the real specs because no data sheet is provided. So, we will go with your published specs. You guys state the specs as "Our CGTI Image Intensifier Tubes have a Signal-to-Noise ratio of 15 to 20, with a Resolution of 45-54lp/mm. " The photocathode sensitivity is 350 or less (If 350 is the max I sure hate to be the guy getting less here ).

I strolled over to the other "musketeers" detailed Omni chart and that puts this tube about Omni 2 for resolution and Omni 1 kicks its tail in photocathode response or sensitivity. And this is assuming I get your best tube in your stated specs. I am using the high end for your CGTI tube. Average tubes falling somewhere in the middle would be much less. I am not going to do the math but if I take the high and low specs and average them in the middle the CGTI tube won't come close to beating a Omni 1 tube with the exception of resolution which you tell me I can't tell the difference between 64 to 72 so a Omni 1 resolution MINIMUM spec of 36 lp/mm should not be far off from your 45-54 lp/mm CGTI tube. Keep in mind Omni specs are minimum specs. Most perform above that.

For all intensive purposes a US Omni 1 tube made around 1982 could hang with your CGTI tube and beat it in gain and sensitivity. YES, I consider this a "Works, but not high performing tube at all". Your tube is US tech 30 years ago give or take. If that is not the definition of lower performing I don't know what is.

I will get to this one now as I assume I am one of those guys with "alliances to certain re-sellers". I never had alliance to anyone. In fact Satchal it was ATN who first got me into night vision. I was a customer over 10 years ago. I bought a Night Shadow from you guys to the tune of 2K which promptly and literally broke in half twice. After a myriad of phone calls talking to everyone but the janitor I gave up on you guys and took a 2K loss. You guys would not stand behind your product and support after the sale was non existent. Your staff were masters at dropping my calls or transferring me to some guy stuck in a cubicle who did not even know what a Night Shadow was.

Ironically, my "alliances" were caused by ATN not taking care of a customer. Not wanting to get shafted again I started to learn about night vision and some older guys felt sorry for me and took me under their wing. I learned and became friends with many including Vic the "re-seller" you refer to. See Satchal, I was friends with Vic before there was a TNVC. Vic was a guy just like me who loved night vision and got screwed over by a dealer on a Raptor sale.

Vic and others here talked about night vision before we even had a night vision forum. I learned from many of the old guys in this forum and a few others. It was never about sales or alliances. Just a group of guys who liked to talk about night vision.

"New member become victims of misinformation" ?? Sadly you are correct. In the past lots of night vision misinformation was put out in the form of fake and Photoshopped advertising pics, vague specs and IMHO outright untruths. Who was this Satchal ? Find a post of mine where I intentionally gave misinformation. Find a post of mine where I put up fake photos to sell my gear. I think it is great things have changed at ATN and I commend you on it. The whole "victims of misinformation" thing is absolutely hilarious coming from ATN.

Admittedly I was harsh in my post. Few things get under my skin but we all have our moments in life. Some things are touchy subjects with me because I was shafted to the tune of 2K by the makers of these great deals here. I apologize for my continued negativity. I mistook the whole "free stuff" thing as I only glanced over your post this morning. I thought you meant people give me free stuff to say good things about their products. My fault for not thoroughly reading your post.

I have no issue with you, the guy selling these or anyone who bought them. I truly hope you get a nice scope and get years of use out of it. I said my peace and these scopes may of may not be a good deal. I truly hope everyone here gets a good deal. I do fear some won't. Anyhow, I apologize for my tone. I could have stated things better.

Speaking of current misinformation, how do you explain this ad?  





You guys continue the advertising shenanigans and cry when folks call you on it.   The small reseller you are talking about has put a lot of time and energy into serving their customers' needs.  They provide a spec sheets, objective needs assessments, education and training, and other non biased factual information to their customers free of charge and regardless of whether they "make the sale".   Customers tend to go with folks who have given them good advice and good service over a number of transactions - not just the cheapest gear.  

When ATN gets to that point, you may be able to change your reputation.  Until then, my advice is to focus on your customer.

Value is judged by the customers - not by manufacturers.

Im a fan of Apex  

Vic has answered numerous questions I have asked un solicited, thanks Vic, I don't know Dino and never talked with him

but man this thread is teaching me alot all the way around.

I asked a quesyion on page two no one answered, so i hung in there, PLEASE keep this thread going

So will the Spirit 2 work behind an Eotech EXPS3 (with proper mount)? I didn't know if it will work while using the 3x lens. If it does it could make a decent coyote/raccoon rig.
Yes I want a proper PVS-14 someday, I'm not looking for that anywhere near this price range.

The spirit is best used as a spotting scope/monocular setup.  It would be very bulky on a helmet mount and much too long.

Yes, I have not seen my check for 2000 bucks yet. When I receive it (not holding my breath) I will close the matter. I did salvage the tube and sell it and if memory serves me I got 300 bucks for it. I will call it 1700 and we are even. The tube was actually pretty good in the scope. The housing ???

I'm listening for logic. How is it that most upper end night vision companies provide spec sheets, don't you like to know what your buying. As for the advertising you keep talking about company change when are y'all going to start.

You register a month ago, and a majority (if not all) of your posts are criticizing ATN. What manufacturer or reseller do you work for? I'm surprised that site staff hasn't called you a stalker too, but evidently that whole 'some pigs are more equal than others' seems to prevail in this forum.

Been burnt pretty bad sorry to get anyone rowled up. No affiliation with anyone.

Strangely, I don't feel threatened by you at all.    It is pretty revealing that you don't respond.  If you don't listen to potential customers, the outcome will be predictable despite all of the hot gas and cheap, cheap, cheap prices / sweatheart "deals" put forward.

You will continue to be called out on misrepresentations until your performance improves whether you choose to respond or not.

Dimitry said you would take care of it.  

So if we can get back on track for a second,



I've Been using my nvm-14-cgti for the last 3 nights in support of a stargazing meet in Vermont.  I could not be happier with the performance. It handles red flashlights very well in the times when I do cross paths with other humans. The rest of the time I only have starlight to illuminate open fields and areas with moderate tree cover and it works great. Depth perception is a little bit of a bitch but I guess that's true for any monocular. I'm still on my first 123a battery, with at least 12 hours of usage.

This might sound like a shill for the evil corporations atn and apex, but I'm very satisfied with my $800 toy. Keep on shillin bros

Any idea if the pvs-7 would mount to a rhino mount? Has any one tried the ps-14 with j arm and helmet mount? Looking at getting one of these for a walking around set up while hog hunting.

Yea, I just got my helmet in the mail today. Cheap budget build helmet with all parts from ebay. Only been on for about an hour. Feels comfortable walking around in the house. Rhino mount and J arm work perfect
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I assume that you have since adjusted the J-arm to see through one of your eyes instead of your nose?

 

I have 2 almost identical skate helmets setup the same way, with the strap mount, and surplus chin straps.

for $15 on clearance and a little flat spray paint, I cant complain.

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Hey Pan, mind telling me where you got all your stuff from?

PS-14 from Apex gun parts                                                                                                                 $799
Bell faction helmet from ebay                                                                                                              $27
Rhino bracket, Rhino arm, j arm, mount strap and buckle      ebay package deal                              $59
Maxexpedition battery pouch for counterweight bag  ebay                                                                  $15
USGI chinstrap   ebay                                                                                                                          $16
Streamlight Super Tac ir weapon light             ebay                                                                            $114
Lasermax ir laser                                      ebay                                                                                    $159
                                                                                                                             Total                       $1189

I originally said $1100, it was actually about $1200
I am still very pleased with my purchase. Planning on navigating some trails tonight
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Good stuff thanks. Let us know the comfort of everything after.

All drama aside, I called ATN and got a 1x lens for my Night Spirit for $45. The only was $12 shipping. Looks like this will end up weapons mounted -- I just have to figure out which weapon and how. My pvs 14 can then dedicate as a monocular/helmet-mount, and I can run an IR with any secondary weapons.

Now that's interesting..