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Posted: 10/11/2013 5:09:13 PM EDT
One of the higher ups in the FLIR Personal Systems Division (NOT FLIR Government Systems who make all the military thermal equipment T-50, T-60, T-70 etc)) told me that they will be releasing a new thermal weapon sight at the 2014 Shot Show in Vegas. The FLIR Personal Systems division makes the PS-24, PS-32, LS-64 handheld scanners as well as the industrial thermal cameras, and the marine and automotive thermal units.
I will get more information on this in the future, however for now it will be available in 320 and 640 pixel microbolometer configurations, have an internal lithium ion battery with an external Li-ion battery charging pack that plugs in via micro USB port, an internal removable SHDC card for recording NTSC video in B&W & Color, and removable germanium lenses for tuning the range of the thermal sight from short range (35mm), intermediate range (50mm) and long range (100mm). It will also contain digital reticule sights for various weapon platforms, ie ballistic reticules for 5.56mm and 7.62mm, as well as upgradable reticules for other cartridges and available in 7Hz and 30Hz frame rates. So, this may be a real game changer for us night hunters! 
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Posted: 10/11/2013 5:51:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks like ls64 franken thermal may get retired
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Posted: 10/11/2013 6:06:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like ls64 franken thermal may get retired I told them about what you have been doing out there ahead of the curve...basically your intuition is right on the money. |
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Posted: 10/11/2013 6:15:57 PM EDT
[#3]
SkyPup -
Thanks for the information!!! Hard_Ware - don't recede on the path of progress on the FrankenThermal, I am awaiting your field testing of it 
BB |
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Posted: 10/11/2013 6:47:45 PM EDT
[#4]
A real game changer is a unit that us regular folks can afford. That will be a real game changer worth it's while.
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Posted: 10/11/2013 6:53:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I told them about what you have been doing out there ahead of the curve...basically your intuition is right on the money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like ls64 franken thermal may get retired I told them about what you have been doing out there ahead of the curve...basically your intuition is right on the money. Over the years I have seen that happen over and over, some of the mods or changes are just the way it should have been done in the first place from my view point. Led traffic lights, cell phone that snaps in holder at home to interface with TV , internet, movies etc etc., laser and reflective lens for hazard flashers on roadways or automobiles , this could be powered for months on small battery or running off car battery. Not having to worry about a dead battery after leaving car with hazard lights on. List goes on and on, puts a smile on my face when wife says look just like you said they should do it years later. A franken unit could be assembled for around 2000.00 using the ps24. Flir sells refurbished for 1700.00 |
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Posted: 10/11/2013 6:54:24 PM EDT
[#6]
The new FLIR Thermal Weapon scope is called RazorBack with good intentions......
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Posted: 10/11/2013 7:02:08 PM EDT
[#7]
The ls 64 with proper firmware would work great, just add a boresighted factory mount. The rest could be electronically taken care, as far as the POA/POI and retaining center while zooming even though the unit is not perfectly centered, as long as its close. All it takes is some keystrokes and the right thought process. It costs the same to make it with bad thinking or good thinking it's just bad thinking costs more $$ down the road., and you only get one first impression.
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Posted: 10/11/2013 7:03:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A real game changer is a unit that us regular folks can afford. That will be a real game changer worth it's while. From what I understand, the price is coming down and you will be able to get this first class technology for better than what you might be thinking..... |
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Posted: 10/11/2013 7:12:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Hogs will be under control when thermal gets into more hunters hands.
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Posted: 10/11/2013 7:26:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hogs will be under control when thermal gets into more hunters hands. 10-4 on that!
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Posted: 10/11/2013 10:17:23 PM EDT
[#11]
I want in on thermal and am just trying to hold off for prices to get a little better, COME ON, i am not gonna live forever
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Posted: 10/11/2013 10:46:38 PM EDT
[#12]
SkyPup, I'm in the market for a PS-32 - have you heard of anything new from FLIR in this price range? Should I buy now or wait until spring?
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Posted: 10/12/2013 12:54:41 AM EDT
[#13]
7hz? Is it safe to assume this unit will be exportable under similar conditions as the Flir PS24/32?
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Posted: 10/12/2013 12:55:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7hz? Is it safe to assume this unit will be exportable under similar conditions as the Flir PS24/32? The 7Hz model will be exportable, not the 30Hz model. |
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Posted: 10/12/2013 1:01:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SkyPup, I'm in the market for a PS-32 - have you heard of anything new from FLIR in this price range? Should I buy now or wait until spring? Sir, I cannot tell you anything about any other new models or prices as I am not privy to that information. What I can tell you is that a PS-32 will easily increase your night hunting experiences by a factor of 10X in a heartbeat if you do not already have one. If you can afford to waste a 1,000% increase in your night hunt success rate, then you can afford to wait forever for something new or something cheaper. I got my first one when they first came out and it has seen significant hardcore use with zero downtime, it is super simple to use, ergonomic, and the internal battery normally lasts me on an all night hunt, it is a loaner in our group now and everyone wants to have it or get one for themselves since I also have an LS-64 for myself. If I left home on a hunt and forgot to bring it, everyone would be pissed, including me. If you can find something better and cheaper today or tomorrow, get it. |
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Posted: 10/12/2013 1:37:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 7Hz model will be exportable, not the 30Hz model. Oh hell yes time to step up my thermal game finally. I never ended up grabbing a PS24/32 because the eye relief drove me bonkers. I'll go get my lawn chair ready to camp in a line for this. Very exciting news. |
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Posted: 10/14/2013 12:04:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sir, I cannot tell you anything about any other new models or prices as I am not privy to that information. What I can tell you is that a PS-32 will easily increase your night hunting experiences by a factor of 10X in a heartbeat if you do not already have one. If you can afford to waste a 1,000% increase in your night hunt success rate, then you can afford to wait forever for something new or something cheaper. I got my first one when they first came out and it has seen significant hardcore use with zero downtime, it is super simple to use, ergonomic, and the internal battery normally lasts me on an all night hunt, it is a loaner in our group now and everyone wants to have it or get one for themselves since I also have an LS-64 for myself. If I left home on a hunt and forgot to bring it, everyone would be pissed, including me. If you can find something better and cheaper today or tomorrow, get it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SkyPup, I'm in the market for a PS-32 - have you heard of anything new from FLIR in this price range? Should I buy now or wait until spring? Sir, I cannot tell you anything about any other new models or prices as I am not privy to that information. What I can tell you is that a PS-32 will easily increase your night hunting experiences by a factor of 10X in a heartbeat if you do not already have one. If you can afford to waste a 1,000% increase in your night hunt success rate, then you can afford to wait forever for something new or something cheaper. I got my first one when they first came out and it has seen significant hardcore use with zero downtime, it is super simple to use, ergonomic, and the internal battery normally lasts me on an all night hunt, it is a loaner in our group now and everyone wants to have it or get one for themselves since I also have an LS-64 for myself. If I left home on a hunt and forgot to bring it, everyone would be pissed, including me. If you can find something better and cheaper today or tomorrow, get it. FLIR salesman of the year, thanks SkyPup. Decision made. |
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Posted: 10/14/2013 8:55:29 AM EDT
[#18]
This is a tag
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Posted: 10/14/2013 10:49:45 AM EDT
[#19]
I'd be interested to see what the price ends up to be on the RazorBack.
Other companies are utilizing FLIR components and selling units in the 4500 - 7500 k range. It'd be nice if the FLIR units were within that price range as the systems would most likely be produced from a FLIR assembly line and therefore a true measure by which to compare the others to. BB |
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Posted: 10/14/2013 11:22:07 AM EDT
[#20]
BB, I totally agree, FLIR could totally dominate the entire market with the right instrument (LS-64 quality) at the right price ($5-8K) with the right accessories (internal SDHC video recording card, screw on 35mm, 50mm, 100mm germanium lenses, external battery pack, ballistic reticules, and software upgrade packages).
They do have the knowledge and capability to produce something like this and apparently there is adequate market in North America for this too. |
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Posted: 10/14/2013 2:27:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FLIR salesman of the year, thanks SkyPup. Decision made. Osborne Effect just went into motion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect |
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Posted: 10/14/2013 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#22]
One nice thing you can count on with FLIR, is everything is 100% made in factories in the USA and serviced my USA service personnel.
Not so sure about the germanium lens ore material though as it is a critical national defense storage material and some is mined and purified here in the USA but most is found in China or Russia. It won't be such a long wait to see what prototypes they come out with at the Shot Show, perhaps they will be on the market by this time next year, however only time will tell.... |
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Posted: 10/15/2013 1:03:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Here is ls64 used as a scope http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HfHJ4MMEmQQ Here is the ps24 on same rifle http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gkZHkEDTFLI |
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Posted: 10/15/2013 1:42:14 PM EDT
[#24]
That will be a game changer for sure.
Time to start marketing myself as a hog killer to my rice farmers. 
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Posted: 10/15/2013 5:31:57 PM EDT
[#25]
I've heard rumours of such a beastie.
And yes, I am excited for it. |
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Posted: 10/18/2013 6:19:12 PM EDT
[#26]
the only thing I see missing is an IR laser to help your buddies see where the hogs or coyotes are.
just has to be close to the target, and invisible without night vision. |
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Posted: 10/18/2013 6:28:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/Hard_ware/FrankenLS64_zpsb4ed7dfb.jpg Here is ls64 used as a scope http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HfHJ4MMEmQQ Here is the ps24 on same rifle http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gkZHkEDTFLI We've seen a LOT of DIY projects over the years, this is most impressive MAcGyver type work I've seen in awhile. (Sorry showing my age with that show!)
Vic |
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Posted: 12/13/2013 5:22:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Bump for the updates.
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Posted: 12/14/2013 10:44:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Looking forward to this!
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Posted: 12/14/2013 6:18:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sir, I cannot tell you anything about any other new models or prices as I am not privy to that information. What I can tell you is that a PS-32 will easily increase your night hunting experiences by a factor of 10X in a heartbeat if you do not already have one. If you can afford to waste a 1,000% increase in your night hunt success rate, then you can afford to wait forever for something new or something cheaper. I got my first one when they first came out and it has seen significant hardcore use with zero downtime, it is super simple to use, ergonomic, and the internal battery normally lasts me on an all night hunt, it is a loaner in our group now and everyone wants to have it or get one for themselves since I also have an LS-64 for myself. If I left home on a hunt and forgot to bring it, everyone would be pissed, including me. If you can find something better and cheaper today or tomorrow, get it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SkyPup, I'm in the market for a PS-32 - have you heard of anything new from FLIR in this price range? Should I buy now or wait until spring? Sir, I cannot tell you anything about any other new models or prices as I am not privy to that information. What I can tell you is that a PS-32 will easily increase your night hunting experiences by a factor of 10X in a heartbeat if you do not already have one. If you can afford to waste a 1,000% increase in your night hunt success rate, then you can afford to wait forever for something new or something cheaper. I got my first one when they first came out and it has seen significant hardcore use with zero downtime, it is super simple to use, ergonomic, and the internal battery normally lasts me on an all night hunt, it is a loaner in our group now and everyone wants to have it or get one for themselves since I also have an LS-64 for myself. If I left home on a hunt and forgot to bring it, everyone would be pissed, including me. If you can find something better and cheaper today or tomorrow, get it. Do you find the laser on the LS64 useful? What kind of range is it visible at? (I look for people and it would be a benefit to be able to say " go look where that dot is".) |
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Posted: 12/14/2013 7:10:33 PM EDT
[#31]
The red laser is useful to point where you are seeing things at night, you cannot see it through the thermal but you can see it with your other eye. It goes a long ways out past 300 yards.
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Posted: 12/14/2013 10:16:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The red laser is useful to point where you are seeing things at night, you cannot see it through the thermal but you can see it with your other eye. It goes a long ways out past 300 yards. Thanks for the response. I have used a 32 once and a 64 once last week but never had access to instructions. I was unaware of the laser to try it out. It was a big time saver for me to eliminate a whole section of blackberry brush (not having to search it with a crew at night) while looking for a Alzheimer's patient. I really want to get one of these and not have to depend on one being available to check out. I think that the laser would be a good tool to have as part of the package. I apologize for the thread drift. |
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Posted: 2/12/2014 6:38:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Here is a graph of the FLIR Tau 2 640 17 micron thermal core, the 320 core will be 1/4 the range of the 640:
This should help you to make a decision on which FLIR RS thermal scope version is right for you.
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Posted: 2/12/2014 10:04:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Keep in mind all core of the same size core ie 17 micron will have the same detail.
The 640 core is what is shown, the 320 core will be 1/4 the picture, the 160 core will be 1/8 the picture. But the clarity will be the same. Here is link click on the example tab to see the different lens views top is 49meters, bottom pic is 827meters, now you know how much you have to spend to find the identification range you want. http://www.oemcameras.com/infrared-thermal-imaging-camera-cores/oem-thermal-imaging-cores/flir-tau-2-640-50mm.htm here is chart for 320 
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Posted: 2/12/2014 10:10:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is a graph of the FLIR Tau 2 640 17 micron thermal core, the 320 core will be 1/4 the range of the 640: http://www.phossil.com/thom/Night%20Vision/FLIR%20T70/tau-640-dri.jpg This should help you to make a decision on which FLIR RS thermal scope version is right for you. Can you qualify the differences between recognition and identification? |
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Posted: 2/12/2014 10:36:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Flir is referring to a man sized object, if you can tell its a man you can id.
If you go to the link I posted and click on examples you can sample the different lenses and decide for yourself what you consider what lens you need to ID. A man sized object is far from a rabbit or small hog. I like the 60mm or 100mm for ID purpose. Use the examples to compare what ranges flir says a lens will id or recognition range is. |
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Posted: 2/12/2014 10:38:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Recognition is hey, it's a human, a hog, a deer, a coyote.
ID is it's a target I am shooting at. It will not tell you who the human is though, or if the coyote is your neighbors German Shepard, but you get the idea. Of course, if the hog already has been close enough to ID and now has moved out into the recognition range, you can still easily shoot him in that range as long as he is the hog you previously ID'ed closer up. |
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Posted: 2/12/2014 11:38:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Ok here is what else I have been able to learn.
If you get the mrad spec from the flir core and lens size. example a 17u core with a 100mm lens has a mrad = .170 for all of the 160, 320, or 640 size detectors as far as the spec sheet goes. You take that and divide by 1000 which gives .000170 radians now you multiply that by the distance you want to know how small of an object you can see. example .000170 radians times 100meters = .0170 multiply that by 39 inches( 1 meter) = .663 inches You could see a 5/8th inch object at 100 meters Better then 20/20 vision Normal vision is 20/20 which is .290 mrad at 100 meters normal 20/20 eyesight would be able to see 1 1/8 of an inch at 100 meters So the see at least as good as normal 20/20 vision a 60mm lens would be needed with a 17u core from what I have been able to learn. 60 mm lens mrad= .283 x1000 = .000283 radians .000283 radians x 100 meters =.0283 x 39 = 1.10 or 1 1/8 inch same as 20/20 vision. If I would have known this I would have made sure and purchased a unit with a larger lens. Now I know why I see bunny blobs at 150meters with my ls64. At 150 meters 3" is the smallest it can resolve with the 35mm lens. |
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Posted: 2/13/2014 1:07:17 AM EDT
[#39]
Picked this up from the Vic's post on the other thread. Thought it might be useful here as well.
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Posted: 2/14/2014 9:31:10 PM EDT
[#40]
We will be testing all these units out in the field on some hogs and coyotes next weekend if weather permits, ah hell even if the weather is crappy we'll test them out.
RS-32 1.25-5 320X240 19mm $ 3,999 RS-32 2.25-9 320X240 35mm $ 4,499 RS-32 4-16 320X340 60mm $ 7,499 RS-64 1.1-9 640X480 35mm $ 6,499 RS-64 2-16 640X480 60mm $ 8,999 Video and pics and reviews to follow.... |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 7:37:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We will be testing all these units out in the field on some hogs and coyotes next weekend if weather permits, ah hell even if the weather is crappy we'll test them out. RS-32 1.25-5 320X240 19mm $ 3,999 RS-32 2.25-9 320X240 35mm $ 4,499 RS-32 4-16 320X340 60mm $ 7,499 RS-64 1.1-9 640X480 35mm $ 6,499 RS-64 2-16 640X480 60mm $ 8,999 Video and pics and reviews to follow.... Thom, I'm struggling with the lens choice on these. I want a unit that can provide a good survey of my surroundings in the hand held role yet give good magnification when used as a gun scope. The choice I'm trying to make is between the 35 & 60 mm on the 640 core. The 35mm will have an 18°x14° FOV, the 60mm an 10.4°x8.3° . In comparison a PVS 14 has a 40° FOV. The RS-64 FOV will be roughly 1/2 or 1/4 of the PVS 14. 
Based on this 35 mm camera chart, which I have a good idea of FOV from experience PVS14 is about = to a 50mm lens RS64 35mm = 135 mm lens Rs64 60mm = 250mm lens I would like the extra native magnification a 60mm lens would provide I'm just concerned that the FOV will be too narrow for using in a survey role. And before you suggest it, I can't afford buying a RS64 and a hand held thermal.
Is there anyway you could post up some screen captures from these scopes and compare them to either a 35 mm camera still shot of the same scene or a photo thru a PVS14? |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:15:45 AM EDT
[#42]
Will try to get some photos at known distances for you and other to compare.
The PVS-14 is not a good comparison to thermal as it is like you said more like a 50mm 1:1 camera lens which sees in real time and has depth perception, the thermal view is 2D so you don't have as much real time depth perception although the lens will perform best within a certain depth of field focus. I think your main dilemma is what distance will you need to cover, if you can cover the distance you have in mind with the 35mm that would be all you need. Based on my experiences with my handheld FLIRs and Mil-Spec weapon scope clip-ons, a 35mm 640 core will cover out 225 yards for targeting, while you will need a 60mm lens with a 320 core to do the same, that distance pretty much covers 98% of night hunting situations for most of us depending on our environment. Of course, for longer ranges a 640 core and a 60mm lens will be the best. The 60mm lens is a new design development with a faster F number than any previous thermal lens system, so will have to see how it performs but it should be awesome. The 60mm lens also has a manual objective lens focus which the 35mm does not. |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:39:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 60mm lens also has a manual objective lens focus which the 35mm does not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 60mm lens also has a manual objective lens focus which the 35mm does not. This is also a factor. What is the depth of field (DOF) for the fixed 35mm lens vs. what is the focus range for the 60mm? On the 35mm the DOF question is more for near objects, what does a person at 10 feet look like? Quoted:
I think your main dilemma is what distance will you need to cover, if you can cover the distance you have in mind with the 35mm that would be all you need. Another way to ask, does the RS64 60mm lens have enough FOV to scan a large area or is it like "looking thru a straw" and field surveying would be slow and frustrating? For my day optics I like a good amount of magnification, 6x @ 100 yards is very comfortable 3x not so much. I'm hoping to avoid disappointment after dropping $6-9k. After all the $2500 price difference between the two RS64 scopes would buy me a top of the line tactical scope. |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:14:11 PM EDT
[#44]
I will know more after I have a chance to use all these in the field next week on some actual hunts and talk to the FLIR representative that is so graciously allowing this to happen.
Will have photos and videos of each of the listed thermal scopes to compare visually, it is always difficult and marginal at best to give my "opinion" about this that and the other without actually using them and producing some real world photos and videos for comparison. And, as always, real world eyeball view is much better than any of the photos or videos we will take, that is a given. As the Wicked Witch of the West once said to Dorothy, "All in due time my little pretty, we'll get you and your little hog too"....
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:59:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Thanks Thom, your experience with thermal scopes and connections with FLIR is a great asset. I'm looking forward to your hands on report.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 6:05:05 PM EDT
[#46]
No problem, we should have some good times checking them out on a hog hunt next weekend.
I got a picitanny rail mount for my Ruger #1 in 7mm Rem Mag and plan on mounting a 640 core 60mm RS-64 on it for long range large hogs..... |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:55:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Here are a few pics from flir
17u core 640 35mm lens man at 49meters 
Same core with 60mm lens 
Same core with 100mm lens 
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Posted: 2/15/2014 8:59:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No problem, we should have some good times checking them out on a hog hunt next weekend. I got a picitanny rail mount for my Ruger #1 in 7mm Rem Mag and plan on mounting a 640 core 60mm RS-64 on it for long range large hogs..... Cuban Cohiba Esplendido anyone?
Vic |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 9:19:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are a few pics from flir 17u core 640 35mm lens man at 49meters http://www.oemcameras.com/image/data/Product/flir_tau_2/thermal-images/T640-35mm-SR.jpg Same core with 60mm lens http://www.oemcameras.com/image/data/Product/flir_tau_2/thermal-images/T640-60mm-SR.jpg Same core with 100mm lens http://www.oemcameras.com/image/data/Product/flir_tau_2/thermal-images/T640-100mm-SR.jpg I saw these on the link you provided earlier in the thread. The 35mm/640 is stated to be a 1.1x image but the image shown looks magnified more than 1.1x given the person is ~150 ft away from the thermal camera? |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 9:41:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...The 60mm lens also has a manual objective lens focus which the 35mm does not. This (and the pics) really helps make up my mind. That and talking to a friend in the thermal hog-killin' business about these. (ex-USAMU). Looking hard at the 60mm... PS the Esplendido is the most-counterfeited of all the Habanos, so buyer beware. Avoid the "glass-top" boxed ones as these are ALWAYS fakes. Stick with a real Casa de Habanos store and yer OK. I'd rather have a well-aged Siglo VI or a Lancero anyway.
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