Is that the MDVR from ultimate night vision?  If so, how does it compare to the SPI unit?  The price is a lot more appealing at $199 vs. $499.  Will this capture max quality from thermal like this?  I've got an LWTS coming and wouldn't mind being able to record some video like you do w/ all your thermals.

100 yard standing ear hole shot, did not move an inch......




Entrance:

NICE shot!  Out of curiosity what quartering or skinning method do you guys use on the hogs you clean?  Over the last couple weeks I've been watching every youtube video I can find on the subject.  As w/ anything, methods vary!  The largest critters I've cleaned for eating are squirrels, rabbits, and doves  Due to school I've missed every deer season at home since 2004!  This is one of those subjects that I've got some room to learn on so to speak.

We hang em by their rear legs, score the hide down the belly and around the circumference of the neck.  Then start skinning them by pulling the hide in a downward fashion.  The thing that makes this MUCH easier is having the ability to constantly raise the hog so the area you are working on is directly in front of you.  Once the hide is removed down to the knee joint, we usually just score around each leg and then cut the hooves completely off with a cordless sawzall.

A little different than these guys...  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCv93AvwKeg

But you get the idea.  We can get one done in about 20-30 minutes now...

Yes, it is the MDVR from UNV. It is smaller than the SPI unit and will record the same 720X480 30fps NTSC, which is what you need for thermal. Only had for a week now and am checking it out, I like it because you can set it all up and then turn it off and to record you flip the remote switch and within 5 sec it is on and recording, then turning off the remote turns off the unit and the recording, saving battery life. That is a handy feature.

It is not waterproof like my SPI units are and I quite often need absolute waterproof, but so far I would give the MDVR unit a high rating for ease of use, high quality recording, and simple remote record switch. Will be using it quite a bit in the next few weeks so will so how the initial impressions hold up.

I ordered one, too, but I still don't have a video cable for my RS64. Hopefully soon.Going after porky as soon as this rain lifts...

Cables are supposed to in the end of this month, an official announcement should be forthcoming around then to get them.

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FLIR Hog Train just pulled in from the station, gettin' ready to do some night thermal blastin'

Skypup, it looks like the Borg got ahold of your rifle.

Is that all Angelo sent?

No, the train tracks do not come directly into my property, so I am forced to transport these swine from the FLIR Train Depot out into the backyard to use for thermal targets.

Some of FLIR's lowlife competitors (that use FLIR licensed cores, lenses, and electronics) have bought up the property between the train station and my property to interfere with thermal progress.

It is a hassle, I've got to get FLIR to put in a direct rail spur so the entire box car can be let out at once in front of my PS-32, LS-64, M-18, RS-64, T-50, T-60, and T-70s on all five guns for a full effect night video.

If their competitors are such lowlifes, why would FLIR have them as a customer and sell them OEM components?

Simple, FLIR needs the money for R&D to develop new thermal stuff for them so that the lowlifes all will have something to sell.

FLIR has a new model PS-32R with the 320 core and a 35mm lens instead of the 19mm lens on the PS-32. In addition, when you turn it off and then turn it back on it comes up with the same settings that you turned it off in.

Compared to my LS-64 with 640 core and 35mm lens, it has a smaller FOV but the clarity and distance resolution is astounding for a 320 core scanner, can easily see a deer at 600 yards and make out a coon from a possum at 200 yards.

The camo model is a limited edtion:







Oh, and a new first, this unit has NTSC VIDEO OUT!!!

Very tempting, but 9Hz refresh rate ... pass for now. Still paying for my RS64 anyway.

I guess the 9hz is so that it can be exported but FLIR really needs to offer 30hz for the domestic market.

Another important thought to consider when using any thermal weapon hunting scope is the diurnal cycle of inanimate objects absorbing IR radiation and subsequently irradiating IR radiation.

There are crossover times during a 24 hour period of time when inanimate objects (grass, trees, rocks, ground, water, etc) absorb sunlight and then re-radiate that light as IR.

Once you get accustomed to this aspect, you can adjust your thermal hunting times to coincide with the best diurnal crossover points to allow for maximum performance from your instruments.

I am constantly hearing about this and that regarding costly useless thermal instruments from newbies who just took their scopes out and everything was white-out or too hot or way too unresolute.

Where I do most of my hunting, unless we are under a high pressure dome, you can bet that the fog will set in about midnight. Thermal still works good in fog but not as good as a high pressure no fog. so maximum range and resolution is going to be affected. Just another reason why I PLAN my hunting times to coincide with maximal effective times at night, and also to take into accord the maximum emission of the diurnal crossover points of thermal absorption and emission of the millions of inanimate objects in the woods, simply because I am after only the animate ones.

If you plan your hunt times accordingly, you will be surprised how much more enjoyable it is instead of trying to hunt at minimal thermal productive times...

Here is a You-Tube video I made in the backyard last night of the new FLIR PS-32R handheld scanner with 9FPS NTSC video out.

It is the same as the previous PS-32 but with video out and a larger 35mm germanium objective lens instead of the smaller 19mm on the PS-32.

As many of you experienced thermal users know, a 320 core with a 35mm lens is a very powerful instrument for reaching out past one half mile for detection.

I was easily able to discern rabbits, from coons, from possums, at 225 yards with the PS-32R.

This one also has a nice limited edition camo overlay.

The video was 500MB originally and is shrunk down to 46MB for U-Tube, so lost about 10X of the resolution but it still looks very very good, the 9fps video feed is hardly noticeable even when the deer are running through the woods. I would have thought there would have been more degradation of the movements at 9hz, but this was not the case.

i first saw the five deer out 450 yards and watched them walk through the deep woods into an open clearing at 225 yards and was amazed to see them still coming my way.

They all walked up to a depression below my stand and picked up my scent, you can see them with their noses in the air knowing I am somewhere near until they get a definite scent signature, SNORT, and take off from 60 yards right clear in front of me.

This is one of FLIR's new handheld scanner products and if people like it, more video options will be forthcoming as in their handheld series....my LS-64 would LOVE to have this capability!

Here is the vid;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF2HHrOyBjM

BTW, there is no operational difference between the new PS-32R and the PS-32, same size, same controls, just larger lens and video out.

Any user feedback on what kind of firmware/software upgrade improvements to the thermal imagers from FLIR GS Military and FLIR PS Commerical Systems owners can contribute here would be appreciated.

I have been relaying info gleamed from here and my experiences in the woods to friends who are working on making meaningful future improvements for current owners of the thermal equipment I have been demonstrating and educating with the gear I own and use in this thread.

Some of my ideas are;

30hz frame rate in the lower priced units

NTSC video recording capability and individual photos

Variety of Mil-Rad reticules for 5.56NATO and 7.62NATO

Civilian Vis/IR lasers

Enhanced microbolometer contrast controls

Personal customization of individual user GUI.

GPS integration into unit for recording waypoints, tracking, etc.

Saving reticule coordinates for movement to various rifles with or without suppressors


Any other thoughts you'd like to contribute would be welcome as I cannot cover it all myself with new ideas....

Having multiple scope zeros is a big one. Many of us have more than one rifle and/or would like more than one zero setting per rifle. With regular optics you can afford to have several scopes, with thermal at $4-9K each buying them by the dozen is not an option.

Thanks for doing the leg work on this Thom.

I also want to see a FLIR LS/PS lens cap that lasts through hardcore use for at least a year!

I believe I have gone through a bakers dozen of them over the years now, although I am not very nice my equipment at times (especially when transporting all my gear around in the thick woods and swamps on the ATVs where they take an extreme beating), these flimsy caps need to be more STOUT!!!

For those of you that own FLIR GS/LS/PS/RS thermal equipment, don't forget the unit you own can and will be customized with upgrades over time as many new ideas are currently being worked on and new ones are being discovered.

That is the beauty of owning a digital thermal camera......

I'd also like to see a digital video trace of my hot bullet out of the muzzle through space into a hogs brain!

My idea of a perfect clip-on/stand-alone thermal would have all of the following.  Most of this couldn't be accomplished with a software upgrade of course, but here goes.

1.  LASER RANGEFINDER!!  Similar to a normal rangefinder...  push button to bring up rangefinder reticle, push again to range.  This could also serve to point out targets to those wearing NODs.
2.  Mil reticles AND MOA reticles (I prefer MOA but lots of people prefer mil, this would cover both)
3.  Focus adjustment, I've used some with and some without.  I want something WITH it.
4.  X/Y axis reticle coordinates so zeros for multiple rifles and loads can be written down to stick in somewhere on each weapon (in the pistol grip with spare parts for instance)
5.  InstAlert mode or equivalent
6.  Image capture to SD card
7.  QD mount (LaRue, Bobro, etc)
8.  Optical zoom, something like the Torrey Pines stuff going on in the objective lens
9.  At least 4x digital zoom
10.  Uses off the shelf batteries (AA preferably)
11.  5 year warranty
12.  Waterproof, fog proof, shockproof of course
13.  Video out

Wait, your forgot the cost and range for the perfect system?

Has to be under $500.....and take down a coyote @ 800 yards!

Haha yeah now that would be remarkable!  I don't mind paying for performance, but it really would be nice to get EVERYTHING one wants when spending that kind of money.  I wound up going w/ the LWTS due to features and price, but it STILL has not arrived.  Watching your videos of the T50 and its newer relatives made me want a clip-on in the worst way.  This thread is largely responsible for bankrupting my gun budget for the next few months, so thank you

I personally kill more stuff at night with my FLIR T-70's in front of an ACOG or ELCAN Specter DR scanning with my FLIR LS-64 or FLIR M-18 than anything else, very little gets away....a FLIR RS64-35mm would do the same thing for less than half the price though......

I very nearly did just that.  I had the RS64-35mm added to my opticsplanet cart w/ a 10% coupon and the $500 "free" gift card they had available in March...  total I would've had in it was ~$5350.  At that point I did what I ALWAYS do when I'm not completely convinced on a large purchase and made a pro/con list.  The deciding factors were those below.

1.  Picture.  In the images/videos available online, the LWTS always had a better picture.  I realize from seven years of taking pics through nods and thermals that online imagery is not always the best for determining what to buy.  That being said, I had no other options...  no dealer nearby carries both.  

2.  Battery.  I wanted replaceable batteries.  From reading your posts, you like the rechargeable batteries and others do too.  I respect your opinion on all things thermal GREATLY, but I personally do not care for internal rechargeable batteries on something like this.  A battery failure, however unlikely it may be, should not render useless an optic that costs more than some used vehicles.

3.  Core.  I've used other thermals, some w/ DRS cores and some w/ FLIR cores.  IMHO, the image from the DRS stuff (this was 320x240) was better.  Astonishingly clear for thermal as I've also owned some REALLY old stuff.  

4.  Focus.  I like being able to manually manipulate focus for MAX clarity.

5.  Ranging.  Mil reticle (I prefer MOA but I did learn how to mil ranges so I can use that too), ranging stadia (yes I love ranging ability since one of my night guns is a suppressed 300 BLK w/ subsonic ammo...  range matters for it).  Given other posts, I would imagine a ranging reticle for the RS series is forthcoming.  That is awesome that they are supporting/improving the product, but it was not a known possibility when I made the decision.  

6.  Clip-on.  I really prefer a clip-on thanks to reading about and watching videos regarding the CNVD-T and T-50.

7.  Contract.  The Army adopted the LWTS as its new PAS-13 optic.  That says something.  I know those decisions are usually motivated partially (if not mostly) by cost, but it still says something about the LWTS.  

8.  Opinion.  A couple people whose opinions regarding NV and thermal I respect greatly (who've used all aforementioned products) told me the LWTS won by a large margin.  No, these were not the individuals attempting to sell me the item.

I have nothing against any thermal product or company.  I VERY nearly bought an RS.  It looks like an awesome scope and the value of the fact that the manufacturer is backing it w/ software updates CANNOT BE OVERSTATED.  My apologies SkyPup, I wasn't trying to hijack this thread that I've been subscribed to now for over a year and a half.  Keep the pics and videos coming please

I really appreciate that and I really hope you LOVE your new LWTS when you finally get it and that you really get to kick some real arse with it too!

I know we have gone back and forth about this and that many many times and I was pushing a real true Mil-Spec unit most of the time, primarily to be able to take the harsh punishment my units get bouncing around on an ATV for miles and miles through swamps and forests, that is not a test I would want to put to a non-Mil-Spec unit that is not certified for vibration and real waterproofing using batteries.

I also had ordered an LWTS myself two years ago when they came out in spite of the fact that there is little service available for the unit from L3, but after waiting and waiting and waiting, I cancelled the order and got another T-70 since my other works so well for me and I get allot of satisfaction out of it for what I do.

One thing is, after the purchase and you get it and finish sighting in and all, it is a total game changer for you, it is a hardworking tool always available when you want to use it.

I am looking forward to your review, pics, and video of some KICK ASS KILLS!!!

My arm gets tired scanning with just the RS, and you absolutely have to be careful, and get everyone clear before you raise the rifle. A handheld thermal for locating is a very useful tool, I am budgeting for one now. What I want:
30 Hz
640 core
video out
8x digital zoom a la RS64
great screen, OLED?
at least 35mm Ge lens
under $4k

Something I am working on to be able to use the FLIR in a dual detection/scanning capacity without having the safety or fatigue issue with using it on the rifle or having to buy a handheld.  More to come to add I2, DVR, IR illum & laser to the same rig if desired.  Credit to our own Chris Lucci of WRR for the concept.

If you already have a thermal scope, you really don't need to get a top end thermal hand scanner although it is nice to be able to use a scope and a scanner that both have the same lens and microbolometer for easier ranging in the dark.

But if you already do have a thermal scope, all you need is some thermal scanner to DETECT something, even the lowest priced thermal hand held scanners are going to work extremely well to detect things out 300+ yards.

Detection is all you really need, but of course it is nice to be able to ID with a more powerful scanning instrument.

SkyPup.  I've searched and can't find the model number of the mini-dvr you've mentioned several times.



Thanks.

       
 

I have four of the SPI DVRs and have been using them for a couple of years now with my FLIR T-50, T-60, T-70s, and M-18 with excellent success (as well as with the FLIR RS series themal scopes), they are the only real waterproof portable DVRs that I am aware of and take great 720X480 30fps video with 32GB SDHC card. They are NOT sensitive to 5.56mm/7.62mm recoil and for hardcore use in swamps and such are a good investment.



http://www.x20.org/waterproof-dvr-micro-digital-video-recorder



I also am testing a new smaller mini DVR with a remote switch (but not waterproof), it is the MDVR, it also has 720X480 30fps video with 32GB SDHC card, this kit is also designed and complete for basically all thermal weapon scopes:




http://www.ultimatenightvision.com/Thermal-and-Digital-Night-Vision-Mini-DVR-p/unv-mdvr.htm


Both kits have their pluses and minuses, however they both work and I consider them to both be better quality units designed specifically for recording thermal camera video output.

My SPI ones have been getting hardcore use under extreme conditions without a lick of problems, although once I tore off the video cable connector in a fit of mayhem when a pack of coyotes charged me at close range, SPI gave me two new cables for free on that one....


Both kits are very complete and minimalistic to setup in the dark at night, once you have them setup you only need to press one button.

I think the MDVR is a real nice setup for the new FLIR RS scopes as well as all the ATN Thor series scopes as the important specific cables are custom designed to work with those two units. But I am still testing that one and have not really put it through any real hardcore action as of yet.....

The things I like about them are good 720X480 NTSC video, easy to use in dark, small and lightweight, not difficult to use, and reliable for long term use.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that picitanny stock? I could use one to mount NV video equipment on.

Thanks Chris and TDunn for a great idea!

http://www.amazon.com/Stedi-Stock-Shoulder-Stabilizer-Cameras-Camcorders/dp/B00JQI3TJ6

I have a couple of rails I can easily install on this Stedi-Stock and the hand held FLIR PS/LS will screw right into the camera mount too!

I'll keep the thermal weapon sights on my rifle, but this will work very nice for filming NV with the Morovision MonoCam as well as the FLIR M-18 even without the picitanny rail.

The new FLIR PS-32R also has video out as well.


I'll have to state flat out, that unless you are completely alone hunting the the woods at night, NEVER scan with a NV/Thermal mounted instrument on your rifle.

Anyone doing this in our hunt group is guaranteed NEVER to be invited to go out with us again.

This is a nice safe easy to use alternative to attempting to scan with a rifle mounted NV/Thermal as well as a solid night video camera mount....

Yes.  This is a Stedi Stock.  It is a very solid platform originally designed for spotting scopes and morphed into video applications.  It can be used with a collapsible monopod/walking stick to really improve function.  It is very stable and eliminates the safety issue with using a thermal to video with a firearm.

http://stedistock.com/

http://stedistock.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Specifications13-Stedi-Stocks.pdf

The pic rail is standard with a drilled/tapped hole for 1/4 x 20 thread connections to mount to the stock.  It mounts VERY solidly.

http://tnvc.com/shop/tripod-picatinny-rail-adapter/

I'm working with the manufacturer on some other cool stuff for the stock.  I'm looking for a way to make Chris' HELGA available to more of us as a hunting targeting tool.  I have a prototype I'm testing right now.

I'm happy to be able to give something back Thom, however small, for all the great things I've gotten from this forum.

Thank you very much, this is a nice addition to my gear arsenal and I ordered the camo model for maximum tacti-cool factor!

I already have two of the TNVC picitanny rail mounts I've been using for other stuff, so GTG on that end.

It is always a hassle messing around with video equipment in the dark, this should help to keep things better organized too....

You keep posting pictures of that T-70 and I'm going to wind up divorced.

You said a mouthful there. The first time I went out I was fumbling around and clumsy as heck, trying to find, use and manage my gear. Now I have it down a lot better, and know where everything is. Practice pays off.

I can tell you right now that the FLIR T-70 acquisition is the easy part, it can be FED-X overnight....and you will be using it tomorrow.

The long term painful hard part is the new refrigerator, new furniture, new interior design, new car, etc. payoff that will take months to complete and cost overrun by a factor of $2X for the wifey!!!

With the Stedi-Shot, you can take great thermal movies with a FLIR M-18 Recon.

Well I have "half" that setup!

For those of you who own and use a FLIR Vanadium Oxide UnCooled microbolometer in your thermal weapon scope or scanner, not matter what the focal plane array is or what the model is, this is the spectral response curve that you will be covering with your instrument.

Since I have had so many questions about the thermal mid range IR graph that the FLIR thermal vanadium oxide microbolometers are picking up, here is the simple explanation:

Night Vision allows you to see in the .7 micron to .94 micron range of low IR, which is also 700-940 nanometers for those of you who are metrically challeged.

While thermal "sees" in mid range IR is 7 to 15 microns, which is also 7,000 to 15,000 nanometers....

If ya can't understand that, you certainly can understand this Iron Pallete mid range IR!





With NVO, you would not see the same wavelengths or attention to detail since the object itself in the thermal wavelengths is directly emitting the radiant energy, not extraneous abhorrent visible photons floating around in space like with NV.....

Dbl tap

It is the TNVC picitanny rail adapter extension, use a standard camera tripod with 1/4-20 UNC threads.


http://tnvc.com/shop/tripod-picatinny-rail-adapter/