I'm looking at submitting a form 1 and going through the class 3 approval for making a SBS and had a question?

Am I allowed to purchase the class 3 barrel before my stamp arrives if I also already own the shotgun that it is going on? I would of course not put it on the gun until approved.

I ask because I found the barrel I want and I'd like to grab it while I can but I want to stay out of any legal grey areas.

Thanks!

This is a question that will draw a lot of conflicting comments.

The short answer is - if you have all of the parts; in your care, custody, or control, to assemble an SBS and you have no legal way to use those parts, other than to assemble an SBS, then you are in fact in possession of an SBS.

The legal theory is called constructive possession, but the actual criminal charge is simply "possession."

In your case you would not have a legal use for the barrel.  The only way the barrel could be used is to make an SBS.

An easier way to think of it is... do you have a legal way use each and every part in your control.

If you own all of the parts needed to assemble an SBR and those parts can ONLY be used to assemble an SBR then your are in constructive possession.  If you have a legal use each part in your possession then you are good to go.

I.E. if you own a AR15 variant pistol, then it would be legal to own a <16 inch barrel even if you own an AR15 variant rifle because you have a legal use for the short barrel.  But, if you own a rifle and not a pistol, then it would be illegal to own a short barrel, becouse you don't have a use for a short barrel other than to assemble a SBR.  If you did not own a rifle then you could own a short barrel because you do not have all the part necessary to assemble an SBR.

Now back to your SBS.  Since you own the "shotgun" that you intent to use for the SBS, if you also had a barrel <18 inchs you would be in possession of a SBS.

There are some work-a-rounds like the Mossberg Shockwave that started life without a stock and therefore is not a shotgun.  If you owned one of those then you could legally own a 14 inch barrel because you would have a legal use for it, but that is another can of worms.

But, if it were me, I would not purchase the barrel until I had an approved Form 1.

Interesting. Thanks for the thorough answer.

I was leaning towards that conclusion but it's frustrating because who knows if I'll be able to find the barrel I want a year from now after I get my stamp.

One suggested workaround is to ship the barrel to a friend that agrees to hold it until your stamp clears.

This friend cannot possess a regular title 1 receiver that the barrel will fit however or he would be in the same boat you are trying to avoid!

Yep, frustrating.

What is so special about this specific barrel?  Just curious.

14 inch 870 barrel with modified choke.

Yeah, that's a good idea. But I would probably just worry about the paper trail of me actually purchasing it. Am I being paranoid?

It's sucks because I really don't have any intention of building the SBS until I get a stamp.

Remington makes a Title I firearm similar to the Shockwave.  

Buy one of those and then you will have a legitimate use for the additioinal 14 inch barrel.

No one ever said that NFA was a cheap hobby.

Haha. Yeah.

You shouldn't have any trouble finding a 14" barrel, especially these days because of the TAC-14.

Well let me ask this then:

Could I sell my current 870, buy a tac 14, apply for a stamp, and put a regular stock on it after I get my stamp?

Or is the grip on the Tac 14s permanent?

Well damn Waylon; I can't say I'm 100% sure what you're saying here...

If you no longer own an 870 then you could buy the barrel that you want so badly.  Then do a Form 1 and buy an 870 and install the barrel once the form is approved.

I don't know if remington uses a standard reciever for their Tac 14.  I have not heard anyone say that they don't.   If they do, then it would be easy to buy the Tac 14 and then do a Form 1 and then buy the shoulder stock.  Of course then you would have to engrave.  I don't know what choke the Tac 14 comes with, but you seem to really want the modified chock??

I wondered the same thing about the Mossberg.  Wondering if would be any cheaper to convert the shockwave into an SBS.

I own two Form 4 factory SBSs from Mossberg.  If I remember correctly, they cost about the same as the shockwave costs.

So, I would suggest you simply look for a dealer that can get you a Remington SBS and do a Form 4 assuming the cost is about the same as building one yourself with all the required engraving and such.

I have a pistol grip only Mossberg.  I going to build my own shockwave on a 500.  Since I already own two Form 4 590s I will be able to own just about all of the Mossberg barrels I want in any length and play around until I find my favorite configuration.

Remember, you just need at least one legal use for all of the parts you own.  (just for the record, machine gun and silencer parts have separate rules)

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You could buy the barrel and give it to someone else who doesn't have the same shotgun.

a short barrel by itself is just a part.  A short barrel along with the rest of the firearm, and no stamp, is an NFA violation.

Care, custody, or control.

It is a grey area.

In Florida...

In order to establish constructive possession of an object that was in a place (defendant) did not control, the State must prove (defendant) (1) knew that the object was within [his] [her] presence and (2) exercised control or ownership over the object itself.

Joint possession.
Possession may be sole or joint, that is, two or more persons may be aware of the presence of an object and may jointly exercise control over it.  In that case, each of those persons is considered to be in possession of that object.

I won't be converting a shockwave to an SBS because I already own two Mossberg Form 4 SBSs with 14 inch barrels.  I will just be building a Shockwave from a pistol grip only 500.  I have all the parts, I just need time and cooler weather to work comfortably in my workshop.

I was just doing a mind excersize as to whether it would be cheaper to buy a shockwave and Form 1ing it to a SBS or just doing a Form 4 SBS.  I think it is cheaper to just do a factory SBS.

And of course there are benefits to having non NFA, thus Non 5320.20 guns when one wants to travel.  In Florida I can carry a AR15 variant pistol per my concealed weapons licence.  So, the shockwave pistol brace has some utility here.  I have not had the pleasure of discussing the AR15 pistol with a brace installed,  with a LEO, on the side of the road, on a dark and stormy night yet.  I belong to a private range and don't do a lot of showing off in public.

Again, I belong to a private range.  We let the local LEOs use the range for official training.  The few times I have been questioned about NFA by local LEOs, I tell them they are on private property and if they continue their interrogation I will ask them to leave and not return. I get a very strange look, followed by a moment of silence. So far that has worked.

There are pros and cons to Title I and Title II guns.  Of course my NFA stuff are mainly range toys until the EOTWAWKI.

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Ok thanks for the explanation

Absolutely OK, but you'll like the TAC-14 so much you'll just SBR another one anyway.

Ask me how I know.

I SBSing an "regular" 870 long before the Shockwave grip came out.  It was handy and became my primary (I know, the horror based on some recent threads) HD firearm.

Then the Shockwave grip came out and since I had a PGO 870 "firearm" (not meant to be shoulder-fired that shoots 12 gauge shotgun shells) I made my own TAC-14.

Then they became commercially available so...well, I have two Shockwaves (gifts) and a TAC-14 waiting at my FFL.

There's also currently a $60 rebate on the TAC-14s so it makes them something like $320 when all is said and done = no reason not to get one.

Wouldn't that end up looking just like most of the "normal" SBSed 870s with 14" bbls?

Unless you were talking about SBSing the already SBSed 14" bbl into something like a Grizzly:

You're right, at that price I'm leaning towards that option.

So just to be clear because I'm new to all this: The Tac 14 grip attaches to the 870 receiver in exact same way as the normal shotgun stock?

Guilty!

I knew you knew what you were talking about so I should have known there was something afoot!

At least I know someone is reading my posts.

Bumping in hopes of a definitive answer to this question. Thanks in advance.

Unless Remington added some special added feature to the TAC 14 to try and stop people from adding another grip or stock, it should be the same, as the shockwave type grip has been available to buy as an accessory for a while for the 870.

My Mossberg Shockwave mounts the same as a regular 500 or 590.

Thanks. Learning all this makes me think the Tac 14 is the the most cost effective way to go. Only problem is I live in TX, so I can't buy one until September. Then the application and wait for the stamp to put regular stock on. Hopefully I'll have my SBS sometime before 2020. Damn that bums me out.