I am currently helping out with an estate which came across a few NFA items with restrictions so they can't be transferred to the beneficiaries since none of them are dealers. I believe they have checked with either Rock Island or James Julia and they were only interested in one or two due to the restrictions. I believe one or two are sales samples and the others I believe have police restrictions since they came from a law enforcement agency.  I was going to try some of the local dealers, but I know they may not get the best price. I wasn't sure if anyone had any recommendations on who else to try to get them a good price.

Try Ruban Mendiola,He is honest and has a great reputation....( http://dealernfa.com )

This part doesn't make sense. They can't be any more restricted than post-86 dealer samples, unless the estate actually was a LE agency.

If they're dealer samples, the heirs should have time to obtain a FFL/SOT if they wish to keep them. The ATF should help expedite the licensing process, if that's what they choose to do. The heirs would need to have legitimate business intentions, of course.

If the firearms are pre-86 dealer samples, then the heir(s) may later give up their FFL and still retain the firearms.

Yes a lottttt is missing from this story...

Seems familiar...... Attached File

I guess I don't get the point of your post.  That appears to be this thread.....

I agree with KitBuilder and Chas8008 that something about the registration of the NFA items is missing.

Sorry I am not trying to leave anything out. I have just been asked to research other avenues for sale so I have limited info. I believe they were originally purchased as sales samples, but when they were transferred the ATF put restrictions on some of them that they could only be transferred back to leo or another dealer. I may even be wrong about the other dealer part.

I believe the wording is something like approved with the following restriction: imported firearm is for law enforcement use only. subsequent transfers can only be made to an agency.


I would guess they touched on the aspect of becoming a dealer, but I will bring it up in case. Thanks for the idea, I get the impression selling these might be the main goal, but it may not be an avenue they considered. I will also mention dealerNFA if they haven't tried him.

Yes with out all the details. This is a mess.

let Rubin sort it out....

Isn't ther a form 10 that transfers to LEO and once it's on that form it stays on that form. Only ever to be transferred to LEO?

I remember eating about it here in a thread about what to do if you find NFA stuff in an estate with no papers. It was mentioned as a last resort to NOT use IIRC.

There is a thread here somewhere on what to do if you find NFA stuff in an estate. Search it out, it has all the info you need.

Or, ask Tony.

Here, I found the thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/322347_So-you-found-an-MG-in-the-attic------.html

The only way an estate would have any restricted registration guns is either a pre-86 sales sample or a post-86 dealer sample.

The pre-86 samples would be guns that were imported before 1986, but after 1968 as sales samples for LE and .gov sales.  These guns a dealer can keep after they give up their FFL.

The post-86 samples are guns made after the May 1986 date and are only for use as demo samples for LE or sale to LE. These guns cannot be kept by a dealer if they give up their license (or SOT IIRC).

If the estate still has the guns, and does not have a FFL, Id say you are looking at pre-samples.  Look at the forms. You are looking for the ink stamp that the ATF will have stamped on the forms. Also look at the date of the approval of the transfers.

Presamples will have something to the effect of "Limited to use as sales sample" or something like that.  Post samples will say something along the lines of (at least this is what they put today) "Restricted Registration - Possession limited to continued compliance with provisions of public law 99-308"

If they are presamples, any SOT can buy them. They are less valuable than transferables, but more valuable than post samples.

If they are post samples, the dealer should have gotten rid of them before giving up their SOT.

Feel free to shoot me an email if there are any more questions, or if I can help out.

I do appreciate all the help and I am also frustrated by the lack of info I have been able to get to use for research. Very rarely have I had to research NFA items and usually they were simple form 4 transfers, and nothing mentioning LEO restrictions.

I am 99% these are all pre-86 originally form 5 transfers from the mid 70s to very early 80s.

If they were Form 5 transfers, then they were either inherited or came from a LE agency. This doesn't identify their status however. Can you tell us what models they are? That might rule out some things.

Yes, government entities can register anything they want on a Form 10, contraband or not. It is a last resort for 2 reasons:
1) It should only be used for registration of contraband firearms.
2) Anything registered on Form 10 may only be registered to (and transferred among) government entities thereafter.

FFL/SOT cannot receive anything registered on Form 10. That's why an estate wouldn't have such firearms. (Unless possibly they were the sheriff, or some other CLEO, and somehow had the gun(s) registered to them personally, instead of the agency entity, but that'd be very weird and I've never heard of it happening).

You are assuming they are machine guns. They could also be silencers, SBR, etc.

OP needs to find out exactly what they are.

We are also assuming they are NFA.

Alot of time "poeple" find an old machine gun that is found out to be a Mosin latter.

Point. I forgot about sales sample suppressors and such.

They came from a LE agency based off the transfer paperwork. I believe one or both are American Arms 180s.

Please list the make and model of each item.

The American 180 is very likely to be a pre-86 dealer sample. If the gun is marked Austria anywhere on it, or the Form 5 has a restriction at the bottom, then that's what it is.

The earlier 180's were imported before they started making them in the US to render them fully transferable.

https://elmfg.com/am180/history/history.html

Pre-1986 (but post-1968) imported dealer samples can only be transferred to a current FFL/SOT but they may keep them forever even after relinquishing their SOT and/or FFL status.

It would be easiest if the OP would scan the registration forms so we could see exactly what he's dealing with.

Also was the deceased an FFL/SOT as a sole proprietor or did he have a corp/LLC, and if he had a corporation is it still in existence with multiple shareholders or members?

Exactly. Just like a Form 1 MG made today for a LE agency transfers as a post 86 dealer sample. The status of the firearm, and both of the parties, is what matters.