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Posted: 4/25/2017 9:22:57 AM EDT
[#1]
I scan the original then print a copy and put the copy in the grip, in fact that is the only use for the storage compartment in an AR grip I have found.
Some stocks have storage as well if you still have an A2 type grip with an open bottom. I put a copy of the SBR stamp and a copy of the suppressor stamp together. You can reduce size and trim the copy if room gets tight. I do the same for Form 5320.20 - permission to take an SBR to another state - for neighboring VA since I go there often. For other 5320.20s I throw a copy in the case when I pack. I also take photos of the stamps and 5320.20s so they are on my phone just in case. I don't bother with the trust, but the trust name has my last name in it. Fwiw, you are not required by ATF regs to have the stamps or a copy with you, but not everyone know that, so it is better to have a copy with you. A Form 5330.20 has to accompany an SBR when the SBR goes out of state. JPK |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 9:50:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Original in the safe.
Copy in my range bag. I do 90% of my shooting on my private range. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:04:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Photos on the phone and I think I might have copies in my target binder. To date I have never had to show them for any reason.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:24:10 AM EDT
[#4]
shrunken and laminated wallet copies
trust, photos, scans of stamps, fostech echo ATF approval letter--all on memory stick on my keyring. |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:28:00 AM EDT
[#5]
I just keep copies in a ring binder.
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Posted: 4/26/2017 5:02:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Originals are in plastic sleeves in a 3 ring binder. Copies in my range bag.
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Posted: 4/26/2017 9:33:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Hard copies in a binder with my trust info in the safe. Digital copies on my computers, and in my email. Digital copies on my phone. Shrunken copies of stamp paperwork and trust docs in ALL range bags, all vehicle glove boxes, and in the grip of every applicable weapon. I'm NOT going to get caught without it. Nope.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 9:31:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Everything is on my phone. Digital copies of trust, stamps and emailed to myself on 2 separate email accounts. No need to carry paper. Originals are filed.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 3:33:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Originals stowed in a safe place. Copies inside the clear sheet protectors and those are inside a regular folder with fasteners and that folder is in the back pockets of the passenger or driver seat.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 4:08:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Pics of stamp in phone. Don't like it..Fuck em. Probable cause and all that. Upidy RSO's can blow a cat. I'll leave.
Do not give in. Ask the reason for such a demand from anyone asking. Reasonable...ok. (can not think of one) but ok.here is my phone pic do you feel safer ? They can't check it quickly, may not even have your name, can not verify without ATF involvement. They need RAS or PC in order for you to need to prove ownership. If ATF asked...same answer. Here is my info. Call it in. it is a non issue. @ the end of all the nonsense it is Legally registered. What else you got. Dam it people do not cave in. That is all. 
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Posted: 4/27/2017 5:02:10 PM EDT
[#11]
1. original in fire resistant safe inside of my gun safe.
2. pdf on my phone, saved locally so that even without a network signal I can retrieve it. Trust is in there too. 3. printed copy in my range bag. most range bags have a thin pocket in them somewhere, I just fold the copies in half and put them in a ziploc and toss them in said pocket and/or under the pelican foam 4. printed copy in my car glove box, again in a ziploc 5. also keep copies inside a big envelope in my father's gun safe...just in case he needs to help bail me out of legal trouble, lol. He's a co-trustee so it only makes sense. Hard to imagine that 2-4 fail, I'll always have at least one of them available for an ATF agent or nosy cop to look at. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 8:27:37 PM EDT
[#12]
I scan them and keep them in my iCloud Drive. Along with a copy of my trust.
Thatcway they are available on all my devices and I can easily update, organize or otherwise work with the documents on my computer or iPad and I've always got my phone with me if I ever need to show my documents |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 9:37:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Original goes in the home safe
PDF copy is on my phone A copy (in a plastic page protector) is generally in the gun case. While l have never had anyone ask to check my paperwork I just cannot understand why some folks are so d&$% adamant about “you don't have to show your stamp”...Why not take the opportunity to educate the unlearned about the NFA procedure and maybe bring a few more gun owners into the fold? |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 2:43:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pics of stamp in phone. Don't like it..Fuck em. Probable cause and all that. Upidy RSO's can blow a cat. I'll leave. Do not give in. Ask the reason for such a demand from anyone asking. Reasonable...ok. (can not think of one) but ok.here is my phone pic do you feel safer ? They can't check it quickly, may not even have your name, can not verify without ATF involvement. They need RAS or PC in order for you to need to prove ownership. If ATF asked...same answer. Here is my info. Call it in. it is a non issue. @ the end of all the nonsense it is Legally registered. What else you got. Dam it people do not cave in. That is all. Florida Statute 790.221 makes possession of SBRs, SBSs and MGs a felony. Possession IAW Federal law if an affirmative defense. Mere possession is therefore at least RAS is not PC to detain/arrest. There is no requirement for state or local LEOs to check with Martinsburg. Again, it is an affirmative defense. Your Form 1s and 4s are your get-out-of-jail-free cards. They are your affirmative defense. If you don't want to carry them/show them that is totally up to you. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.221.html |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 2:57:49 PM EDT
[#15]
...
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Posted: 5/13/2017 6:48:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Originals is protective sleeve, and kept in a binder in the safe.
Full size copy's, laminated, also kept in a different safe. 2 60% copy's made, and laminated. One set in the office, other set in the range bag. 90% of my shooting is on my 50yd private range, rest at my shooting buddy's 100yd private range. To date, none of my NFA toys have been to a public range. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 11:08:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Does the possessor of an NFA firearm have to show proof of registration?
Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm. This document must be made available upon request of any ATF officer. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the possessor when the weapon is being transported. [26 U.S.C. 5841(e); 27 CFR 478.101] Section 3.7 Maintaining registration documents. A person possessing an NFA firearm registered as required by law must retain proof of registration, that is, the document showing the person’s registration, which must be made available to ATF upon request.55 https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-3/download It does not mean Barney Fife might arrest you until it is cleared up. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 1:07:34 PM EDT
[#18]
It's always cute when a person is willing to pay $200, wait a year, and register with the federal government, and inform the state government...but then they honestly believe they are "sticking it to the man" by telling a local cop to "F off" when it comes to showing their forms. No one dislikes the NFA more than I do, but the above attitude is completely moronic and contradictory. If you REALLY want to stick it to the man, make NFA-type items and DON'T register. Otherwise you're just being ridiculous and embarrassing yourself on a public forum in the process.
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Posted: 5/14/2017 1:10:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Original in big gun safe door, a copy in the grip, and a copy in the glovebox.
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Posted: 5/14/2017 2:15:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's always cute when a person is willing to pay $200, wait a year, and register with the federal government, and inform the state government...but then they honestly believe they are "sticking it to the man" by telling a local cop to "F off" when it comes to showing their forms. No one dislikes the NFA more than I do, but the above attitude is completely moronic and contradictory. If you REALLY want to stick it to the man, make NFA-type items and DON'T register. Otherwise you're just being ridiculous and embarrassing yourself on a public forum in the process. There is no inherent authority within the text giving rights in any way. It lists an item and shows tax paid. Nothing more than a receipt showing the item had the tax paid by a certain entity. Which were the terms set forth by Govt...complied with. Local LEO's have no reason to stop and ask for papers "just Because". They can not check it in a timely fashion during a 15-20 minute stop anyway. My local LEO or Govt has no idea what I have possession of. Done before 41f. My name is not on the tax stamp. A legal entity is. So how does that prove anything, other than you have a piece of paper in your possession that happens to have the serial number of the tax paid item on it ? It is Not a permission slip with your name on it ! It is proof the tax was paid ! Those of us willing to take them to task are sending a message enough is enough. I keep a copy on my phone. If that is not enough then fuck them. They better have RAS or PC the person is engaged in an illegal activity. I doubt any ADA or supervisor is going to want an arrest with zero indication that mischief was afoot ? Especially when it would most likely take hours to get an answer from ATF. The whole point of continued resistance is the education it may force upon those that regularly trod upon our freedoms. Don't start with fuck you. Start with why do you think you have the right to ask ? |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 3:42:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Tldr version: I keep digital versions instead of paper.
Here's your cookie. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 7:04:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disagree.. Canceled tax stamp is proof of a tax paid for registering a Specfic item. There is no inherent authority within the text giving rights in any way. It lists an item and shows tax paid. Nothing more than a receipt showing the item had the tax paid by a certain entity. Which were the terms set forth by Govt...complied with. Local LEO's have no reason to stop and ask for papers "just Because". They can not check it in a timely fashion during a 15-20 minute stop anyway. My local LEO or Govt has no idea what I have possession of. Done before 41f. My name is not on the tax stamp. A legal entity is. So how does that prove anything, other than you have a piece of paper in your possession that happens to have the serial number of the tax paid item on it ? It is Not a permission slip with your name on it ! It is proof the tax was paid ! Those of us willing to take them to task are sending a message enough is enough. I keep a copy on my phone. If that is not enough then fuck them. They better have RAS or PC the person is engaged in an illegal activity. I doubt any ADA or supervisor is going to want an arrest with zero indication that mischief was afoot ? Especially when it would most likely take hours to get an answer from ATF. The whole point of continued resistance is the education it may force upon those that regularly trod upon our freedoms. Don't start with fuck you. Start with why do you think you have the right to ask ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's always cute when a person is willing to pay $200, wait a year, and register with the federal government, and inform the state government...but then they honestly believe they are "sticking it to the man" by telling a local cop to "F off" when it comes to showing their forms. No one dislikes the NFA more than I do, but the above attitude is completely moronic and contradictory. If you REALLY want to stick it to the man, make NFA-type items and DON'T register. Otherwise you're just being ridiculous and embarrassing yourself on a public forum in the process. There is no inherent authority within the text giving rights in any way. It lists an item and shows tax paid. Nothing more than a receipt showing the item had the tax paid by a certain entity. Which were the terms set forth by Govt...complied with. Local LEO's have no reason to stop and ask for papers "just Because". They can not check it in a timely fashion during a 15-20 minute stop anyway. My local LEO or Govt has no idea what I have possession of. Done before 41f. My name is not on the tax stamp. A legal entity is. So how does that prove anything, other than you have a piece of paper in your possession that happens to have the serial number of the tax paid item on it ? It is Not a permission slip with your name on it ! It is proof the tax was paid ! Those of us willing to take them to task are sending a message enough is enough. I keep a copy on my phone. If that is not enough then fuck them. They better have RAS or PC the person is engaged in an illegal activity. I doubt any ADA or supervisor is going to want an arrest with zero indication that mischief was afoot ? Especially when it would most likely take hours to get an answer from ATF. The whole point of continued resistance is the education it may force upon those that regularly trod upon our freedoms. Don't start with fuck you. Start with why do you think you have the right to ask ? |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 7:11:23 PM EDT
[#23]
I have a photo on my phone, a copy folded in the molle of the suppressor pouch, and the good copy goes in a binder with my social card and birth certificate and will in the safe in the fire resistant pouch
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Posted: 5/14/2017 9:37:40 PM EDT
[#24]
My originals are in a binder with sheet protectors. I have copies of everything in a manila folder in the map pouch of my car seat.
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Posted: 5/15/2017 5:09:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Originals in the safe.
Full-size duplex color photocopies in a folder in the hydration slot of my range backpack. |
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Posted: 5/15/2017 7:55:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Originals in the safe.
Copies on my phone. Copies of each stamp laser engraved on the side of the magwell (for SBRs) Copies of each stamp tattooed on my back (Forms 1) or biceps (Forms 4). |
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Posted: 5/16/2017 4:32:57 PM EDT
[#27]
I would hate to know where the AOW stamps are tattooed!
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Posted: 5/17/2017 6:14:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disagree.. Canceled tax stamp is proof of a tax paid for registering a Specfic item. There is no inherent authority within the text giving rights in any way. It lists an item and shows tax paid. Nothing more than a receipt showing the item had the tax paid by a certain entity. Which were the terms set forth by Govt...complied with. Local LEO's have no reason to stop and ask for papers "just Because". They can not check it in a timely fashion during a 15-20 minute stop anyway. My local LEO or Govt has no idea what I have possession of. Done before 41f. My name is not on the tax stamp. A legal entity is. So how does that prove anything, other than you have a piece of paper in your possession that happens to have the serial number of the tax paid item on it ? It is Not a permission slip with your name on it ! It is proof the tax was paid ! Those of us willing to take them to task are sending a message enough is enough. I keep a copy on my phone. If that is not enough then fuck them. They better have RAS or PC the person is engaged in an illegal activity. I doubt any ADA or supervisor is going to want an arrest with zero indication that mischief was afoot ? Especially when it would most likely take hours to get an answer from ATF. The whole point of continued resistance is the education it may force upon those that regularly trod upon our freedoms. Don't start with fuck you. Start with why do you think you have the right to ask ? Just in case you want to see proof (part of the sbr laws in my state:) (5) A person who possesses a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is greater than 26 inches in length under this section shall possess a copy of the federal registration of that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle while transporting or using that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle and shall present that federal registration to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer. (6) A person who violates subsection (5) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. A short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle carried in violation of subsection (5) is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. |
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Posted: 5/17/2017 6:42:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Indeed.
I'll show any LEO any of my forms any time they want to see them. Why? Because I don't have time for 'legal troubles' and giving a cop a hard time is a GREAT way to have your guns confiscated. Once that happens, GOOD LUCK getting them back. I've heard of cases where it took over a year. Personally, I like my NFA stuff, and I want them in my safe, not in an evidence room. Everyone's situation is different, but I carry a gun for a living and if I get a gun charge my license is getting suspended...and with no license (DPSST) I can't work...which means I could potentially lose my job just because I want to "stick it to the man"? No thanks. That's just idiotic. |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 9:31:21 AM EDT
[#30]
It's 2017, paper is dead, go digital.
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Posted: 6/4/2017 10:28:34 AM EDT
[#31]
I laminate the originals and keep them in a three ring binder in my safe, and I have copies on my phone in iBooks.
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Posted: 6/4/2017 11:45:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will keep repeating myself until some of the drive-by posters who keep saying local peace officers have no right to see your paperwork finally understand; this statement is completely false and misleading. While some states it maybe the case; not all states or local jurisdictions follow your statement. Stop telling this crap to people because it can lead to a fine and/or weapon confiscation. It is not educating the local peace officers, or a "continued resistance" because it is the state law and the peace officers are doing their job asking for paperwork. Do I agree with this? no. But I have to in order to be lawful in my state. Just in case you want to see proof (part of the sbr laws in my state:) (5) A person who possesses a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is greater than 26 inches in length under this section shall possess a copy of the federal registration of that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle while transporting or using that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle and shall present that federal registration to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer. (6) A person who violates subsection (5) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. A short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle carried in violation of subsection (5) is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Disagree.. Canceled tax stamp is proof of a tax paid for registering a Specfic item. There is no inherent authority within the text giving rights in any way. It lists an item and shows tax paid. Nothing more than a receipt showing the item had the tax paid by a certain entity. Which were the terms set forth by Govt...complied with. Local LEO's have no reason to stop and ask for papers "just Because". They can not check it in a timely fashion during a 15-20 minute stop anyway. My local LEO or Govt has no idea what I have possession of. Done before 41f. My name is not on the tax stamp. A legal entity is. So how does that prove anything, other than you have a piece of paper in your possession that happens to have the serial number of the tax paid item on it ? It is Not a permission slip with your name on it ! It is proof the tax was paid ! Those of us willing to take them to task are sending a message enough is enough. I keep a copy on my phone. If that is not enough then fuck them. They better have RAS or PC the person is engaged in an illegal activity. I doubt any ADA or supervisor is going to want an arrest with zero indication that mischief was afoot ? Especially when it would most likely take hours to get an answer from ATF. The whole point of continued resistance is the education it may force upon those that regularly trod upon our freedoms. Don't start with fuck you. Start with why do you think you have the right to ask ? Just in case you want to see proof (part of the sbr laws in my state:) (5) A person who possesses a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is greater than 26 inches in length under this section shall possess a copy of the federal registration of that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle while transporting or using that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle and shall present that federal registration to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer. (6) A person who violates subsection (5) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00. A short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle carried in violation of subsection (5) is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. Again.. Not advocating starting the conservation by acting like a jack ass. They ask. Your response..You ask in a calm, cool demeanor. Why do you believe you have that right ? Please explain it to me. I have pics of stamps on phone if it gets that far. They don't like it, to bad. I might cave in to their nonsense, but not before pushing back right to the edge of going to the next level. your demeanor is important I these interactions. |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 3:12:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I laminate the originals... |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 4:04:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the one thing posted in this thread I'd absolutely, 100% recommend not doing...assuming you're talking about original paper forms with a real stamp. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I laminate the originals... |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 5:34:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I laminate the originals and keep them in a three ring binder in my safe, and I have copies on my phone in iBooks. If he had not laminated it, he could have proved in court that it was an authentic stamp. Your Mileage May Vary. 
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Posted: 6/4/2017 5:46:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you laminate them, ATF is unable to forensically authenticate them. An NFA owner in, IIRC, Alaska had a war-trophy MP 40 seized and destroyed about 20 years ago because he had laminated his Form 4 ... and ATF could find no record of it in the NFA Registry, which is incredibly screwed up. If he had not laminated it, he could have proved in court that it was an authentic stamp. Your Mileage May Vary. 
ETA - But how would that apply to say, an efile form 1? Since I don't have an approved form 1 with an actual physical stamp from them, just the copy I printed off the eforms website. I know nothing of forensics, but the quality of what the stamp and approved form, and a couple of the signatures on said forms, look like total garbage. Or would the form being an efile thing be the way they would authenticate it, if things ever came to that? |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 8:18:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh dear.
ETA - But how would that apply to say, an efile form 1? Since I don't have an approved form 1 with an actual physical stamp from them, just the copy I printed off the eforms website. I know nothing of forensics, but the quality of what the stamp and approved form, and a couple of the signatures on said forms, look like total garbage. Or would the form being an efile thing be the way they would authenticate it, if things ever came to that? |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 8:28:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...it's a long shot anything would ever happen, but just the fact that it could is why I mentioned it. Also why I specified paper forms with real stamp. There is no "original" with eForms, so nothing to worry about. |
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Posted: 6/4/2017 9:47:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Yes, it's a maxim that you never laminate any government issued document.
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