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Posted: 3/19/2017 11:47:05 AM EDT
OK - there is a lot of talk about repealing the Hughes amendment. I think this is highly unlikely, but for the sake of argument let's say this took place. Many of us have registered SBRs that we'd probably prefer to be registered as a machine guns. Would we have to send in a letter requesting to de-register as a SBR and re-register as a machine gun? Just wondering...

Yes, I'm sure there would also be an abundance of registerable auto sears.
Link Posted: 3/19/2017 12:08:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 3/19/2017 1:07:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Machine gun = flush

SBR = straight

Flush beats strait every time.
Link Posted: 3/20/2017 8:17:16 AM EDT
[#3]
You wouldn't want to do it that way anyway.

You'd want to build and register a DIAS and leave the SBRs as is, that way you can leave your short uppers on the SBRs when the DIAS is out.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 1:16:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You wouldn't want to do it that way anyway.

You'd want to build and register a DIAS and leave the SBRs as is, that way you can leave your short uppers on the SBRs when the DIAS is out.
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This. Whichever President signed this into law would surpass Obama as the greatest gun salesman (or woman) of all time. People like myself that have lived under the tyranny of Hughes for all of their adult lives would RUSH to register/build MGs. I don't even think full auto is all that practical for anything beyond suppressing fire (which is practical in combat, but not in 99.999999% of situations an armed citizen would find themselves in), I'd do it simply because they government has told me 'no!' since I was 11.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 9:04:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This. Whichever President signed this into law would surpass Obama as the greatest gun salesman (or woman) of all time. People like myself that have lived under the tyranny of Hughes for all of their adult lives would RUSH to register/build MGs. I don't even think full auto is all that practical for anything beyond suppressing fire (which is practical in combat, but not in 99.999999% of situations an armed citizen would find themselves in), I'd do it simply because they government has told me 'no!' since I was 11.
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It is a skill to shoot full auto correctly and effectively.  Because of the laws, fewer people have the opportunity the learn how to shoot them properly. Making a false judgement on a type of firearm because of your lack of experience is
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 9:18:20 AM EDT
[#6]
I've shot plenty of MGs. M16A2, M249, M240G, M60E3, M2, Mk19, MP5, AK47, and a few others. In the vast majority of cases, not involving the aforementioned suppressive fire, aimed semi auto fire is more effective, especially at any significant range.

/0311.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 12:38:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Yep, shooting them, mag dumping, etc, is not what I mean.  Practicing a lot with them, shooting thousands of rounds through them, for accuracy is completely different.  2-3 round bursts consistently, on target, is a skill, and more effective than just as a suppressive measure.  Sure something like an m60 was designed for suppressive use, but an mp5 is not.  A person skilled in using an mp5 can easily do much more than someone with a pcc.  
This is not just an opinion.  
If there are any subgun matches local to you, I would recommend you check them out.  

Like I said, it is a skill that not many have, but when you do have it, it is pretty impressive.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 1:22:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yep, shooting them, mag dumping, etc, is not what I mean.  Practicing a lot with them, shooting thousands of rounds through them, for accuracy is completely different.  2-3 round bursts consistently, on target, is a skill, and more effective than just as a suppressive measure.  Sure something like an m60 was designed for suppressive use, but an mp5 is not.  A person skilled in using an mp5 can easily do much more than someone with a pcc.  
This is not just an opinion.  
If there are any subgun matches local to you, I would recommend you check them out.  

Like I said, it is a skill that not many have, but when you do have it, it is pretty impressive.
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You really should stop making assumptions. Thanks for the news flash that shooting both fast and accurately takes "skill" though, I wasn't aware.

Like many things in life, there are pros and cons to everything. Pistol cal MGs are certainly more controllable with practice (as every gun is), but even with significant practice there is always a trade off for that rate of fire. Wasted ammo, decreased accuracy--especially at longer ranges, and heat issues are potential issues. Practics always helps, but if you move the target out to 100 yards or 200 and shoot a few mags at semi and a few with 2-3 round bursts and the latter will be larger. It doesn't take a ton of practice to keep rounds on a man-sized target within a small room, but not all situations occur in a small room. Not all situations will afford you a bunch of extra ammo. Not all situations call for a pistol cal MG at all. There's a reason why lots of mil long guns still have a semi setting even if they also have a fun switch.

This thread is about the mass adoption of MGs by civilians...the vast majority of with aren't training 24/7. A lot of these people are gonna dump mags into the walls/ceiling in an 'oh shit' situation if they have a fun switch. There's a million total knuckle-head non-shooting SOBs for every Jerry Miculek. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be legal...I'm just saying that the 'skills' and 'practice' you are talking about the vast majority will never have / do.

Also, they are no subgun matches here, for obvious reasons. I have observed and participated in plenty of subgun shooting with force recon, however.
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 4:47:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
OK - there is a lot of talk about repealing the Hughes amendment. I think this is highly unlikely, but for the sake of argument let's say this took place. Many of us have registered SBRs that we'd probably prefer to be registered as a machine guns. Would we have to send in a letter requesting to de-register as a SBR and re-register as a machine gun? Just wondering...

Yes, I'm sure there would also be an abundance of registerable auto sears.
View Quote

We would have to register the SBRs as MGs which means another tax stamp. I wonder if you could sue since the NFA specifically says you can register MGs but the Hughes said you can't. You could use some crazy sh-t like the libs equal protection under the law etc. It's be easier just to register the SBRs you like I have 6 that come to mind
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 11:33:25 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't really have anything constructive to add beyond I wish they would do away with Hughes. 

Seems to me it would actually be pretty easy to attach it to HPA and push it through. 
Link Posted: 3/24/2017 11:37:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I don't really have anything constructive to add beyond I wish they would do away with Hughes. 

Seems to me it would actually be pretty easy to attach it to HPA and push it through. 
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LOL.

Because HPA is being easily pushed through?
Link Posted: 3/25/2017 2:30:47 AM EDT
[#12]
safe to say that healthcare and taxes will come before the HPA. We've been living under this crap since 1934...if it takes another year to pass this law I'm fine with it. So long as they DO get it done...
Link Posted: 3/25/2017 3:52:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 3/27/2017 12:38:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You really should stop making assumptions. Thanks for the news flash that shooting both fast and accurately takes "skill" though, I wasn't aware.

Like many things in life, there are pros and cons to everything. Pistol cal MGs are certainly more controllable with practice (as every gun is), but even with significant practice there is always a trade off for that rate of fire. Wasted ammo, decreased accuracy--especially at longer ranges, and heat issues are potential issues. Practics always helps, but if you move the target out to 100 yards or 200 and shoot a few mags at semi and a few with 2-3 round bursts and the latter will be larger. It doesn't take a ton of practice to keep rounds on a man-sized target within a small room, but not all situations occur in a small room. Not all situations will afford you a bunch of extra ammo. Not all situations call for a pistol cal MG at all. There's a reason why lots of mil long guns still have a semi setting even if they also have a fun switch.
Assuming that a MG must always be shot in full auto is a common misconception. Select fire is def the way to go for a personal defense weapon. It allows you to take very accurate shots at long ranges and can switch to auto for close quarters. You can put 3-4 rounds on target just as accurately and way faster with full-auto than semi-auto.

This thread is about the mass adoption of MGs by civilians...the vast majority of with aren't training 24/7. A lot of these people are gonna dump mags into the walls/ceiling in an 'oh shit' situation if they have a fun switch. There's a million total knuckle-head non-shooting SOBs for every Jerry Miculek. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be legal...I'm just saying that the 'skills' and 'practice' you are talking about the vast majority will never have / do.
If M16s were as common as AR15s, Full auto would not be the mystical unicorn that it is now. The reason people want to do mag dumps with MGs is because they are rare, have never fired one, and have only seen full auto fire in Hollywood movies. They have no concept of what its pros and cons are. With proper education and enough practice my 90 year old grandma can shoot a MG with deadly accuracy in full auto and keep hits on a man sized target 10-20 yards away. I just went out last weekend with my m16 and was shooting bursts, they were all 6" groups at 10+ yards

Also, they are no subgun matches here, for obvious reasons. I have observed and participated in plenty of subgun shooting with force recon, however.
Actually there are in fact sub-machine gun competitions
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