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Posted: 2/15/2017 6:24:07 PM EDT
Got a quick question as I don't follow the NFA like I should. I bought a few suppressors from an in state dealer back in May/June. I was informed that my form 4's were approved but that the suppressors could no longer be mailed to my house. Was this change only for those who filed after the changes went into affect in July or is this rule straight across the board for everyone no matter when the paperwork was filed.

Not doubting the dealer here, but given the drive distance it'll be summer before I pick them up.

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 6:41:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Got a quick question as I don't follow the NFA like I should. I bought a few suppressors from an in state dealer back in May/June. I was informed that my form 4's were approved but that the suppressors could no longer be mailed to my house. Was this change only for those who filed after the changes went into affect in July or is this rule straight across the board for everyone no matter when the paperwork was filed.

Not doubting the dealer here, but given the drive distance it'll be summer before I pick them up.

Thanks
View Quote


Policy for mailing firearms was changed a few years ago.

He could ship them to you via common carrier.

Probably need more details as to why he thinks it is illegal. Perhaps it is the new 4473?
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 6:53:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Actually just got off the phone w/the dealer, it looks like as of Jan 10th all approved Form 4's via a trust whether before the July cutoff or not also require a standard background check (4473 to be completed.

Is there an atf ruling on this where I can see it.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 6:56:07 PM EDT
[#3]
He can still mail them to you, there is just a different procedure, which amounts to you mailing him the 4473, him notifying CLEO etc.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 6:59:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Where is this written? I'd sure love to save myself a trip across the state.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 6:59:09 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Actually just got off the phone w/the dealer, it looks like as of Jan 10th all approved Form 4's via a trust whether before the July cutoff or not also require a standard background check (4473 to be completed.

Is there an atf ruling on this where I can see it.
View Quote


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

The new 4473 has a poorly worded NICS question (Your FFL read it wrong in 2 different ways). But if you read/follow the instructions on the form, you are GTG.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:00:59 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

The new 4473 has a poorly worded NICS question (Your FFL read it wrong in 2 different ways). But if you read/follow the instructions on the form, you are GTG.
View Quote


Thanks, I'll call them again tomorrow.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:12:43 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Where is this written? I'd sure love to save myself a trip across the state.
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BigWaylon will have to answer that for you. He was the first one that told me about it, way back when but I don't remember what its exact wording is to find it via Google. Similar to how (before they became a distributor) Silencer Shop would mail your suppressors to you, if you lived in Texas.

Believe this is it.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:15:29 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Thanks, I'll call them again tomorrow.
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Good luck.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:28:20 PM EDT
[#9]
I did this for my last can, I think this time I'm gonna make a trip down to Austin to pick it up myself.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:44:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:55:26 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
A NICS check must be conducted if an NFA firearm has been approved for transfer to a trust, or to a legal entity such as a corporation, and no background check was conducted as part of the NFA approval process on the individual who will receive the firearm. Individuals who have undergone a background check during the NFA application process are listed on the approved NFA transfer form.
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This is why it is poorly worded. It is incorrect as Law/CFR has not changed wrt to NICS checks. It is also inconsistent with the Instruction for question 20 which states in the first line: "A NICS check is not required if the transfer qualifies for any of the exceptions in 27 CFR 478.102(d)."

So go to 27 CFR 478.102(d) and see what you find.

Now keep in mind this is a temporary situation. Once the PRE-41F backlog is filled, it becomes moot.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 8:17:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 8:20:00 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:

Unfortunately, I can't imagine many dealers reading 27 CFR 478.102(d) and having that overrule the instruction snippet I posted...even if it's the correct thing to do.
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Hence "Good Luck".
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 8:31:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks everyone for all the info and especially BW, I'll contact them tomorrow and hopefully I can save myself a LONG trip
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 9:03:43 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

I'm definitely not the expert since I don't hold an FFL and don't keep up with every single change that comes out. That being said, I understand the process fairly well (or at least think I do).

The link above helps explain it to FFLs that don't understand the process. The other bit of info that helps is from the current 4473 (that's been required to be used since mid-Jan). The key to the whole thing is that the person doesn't require a background check. Prior to the new 4473, the last time the ATF addressed NICS checks for trustees was 2008, and they said it didn't have to be done. The new 4473 says:

A NICS check must be conducted if an NFA firearm has been approved for transfer to a trust, or to a legal entity such as a corporation, and no background check was conducted as part of the NFA approval process on the individual who will receive the firearm. Individuals who have undergone a background check during the NFA application process are listed on the approved NFA transfer form.

So, no NICS check required for post-41F submissions, as the ATF has already handled it. It now spells out that pre-41F submissions would require a check. However, in a lot of states (mine, NC, being one) your CHP/CWP/CCP/whatever becomes the exception to the check. There's a documented process to mail the 4473 back and forth and for the dealer to notify the Sheriff.

OP...provide the document GB128 linked and point out the Instruction for Questions 20 & 21 on the 4473. Assuming your state doesn't require a NICS check if you have your carry permit, or for some other reason, you should be able to have the suppressor mailed to you. I know I talked to a guy in CO that couldn't do it because they require a NICS check regardless of the circumstances.
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Might not be the "expert" but I certainly appreciate your expertise on the issues. You explained it better than I did. Also, WA requires NICS check for all WA transfers so I am not eligible.
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 11:15:10 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


Hence "Good Luck".
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Unfortunately, I can't imagine many dealers reading 27 CFR 478.102(d) and having that overrule the instruction snippet I posted...even if it's the correct thing to do.


Hence "Good Luck".


Didn't work out, called the dealer and was informed that the transfers have to be done in person.

Thanks again for the info...
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 3:08:51 PM EDT
[#17]
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