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Posted: 9/14/2016 8:27:05 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't think anyone knows who NFATCA's members are. If you go, find out exactly WHO in the industry they represent.
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Posted: 9/15/2016 5:06:07 PM EDT
[#2]
i think it'd be worth your time. IMO this very well may be a shadow anti-2A organization. No pro gun people would push 41P, that's for damn sure. If you wanted to get rid of the the CLEO sig, you could have just asked for that...no need to hoist a bunch of BS on trusts. Those clowns can 'suck it' as far as I'm concerned.
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Posted: 9/16/2016 1:31:46 PM EDT
[#3]
FUK NFACTA
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Posted: 9/16/2016 1:55:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think anyone knows who NFATCA's members are. If you go, find out exactly WHO in the industry they represent. One of their executives is president of HK, so there's that.. "you suck and we hate you" seems to fit 
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Posted: 9/16/2016 3:19:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i think it'd be worth your time. IMO this very well may be a shadow anti-2A organization. No pro gun people would push 41P, that's for damn sure. If you wanted to get rid of the the CLEO sig, you could have just asked for that...no need to hoist a bunch of BS on trusts. Those clowns can 'suck it' as far as I'm concerned. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS. But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. |
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Posted: 9/16/2016 5:31:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS. But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i think it'd be worth your time. IMO this very well may be a shadow anti-2A organization. No pro gun people would push 41P, that's for damn sure. If you wanted to get rid of the the CLEO sig, you could have just asked for that...no need to hoist a bunch of BS on trusts. Those clowns can 'suck it' as far as I'm concerned. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS. But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. Do you have a source that shows that? Reason I ask, is here's ATF's version: The proposed regulations responded to a petition for rulemaking, dated December 3, 2009, filed on behalf of the NationalFirearms Act Trade and Collectors Association (NFATCA). The petitioner requested that the Department amend§§ 479.63 and 479.85, as well as corresponding Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) Forms 1 and 4. 78 FR at 55016-55017. The proposed regulations were intended to conform the identification and background check requirements applicable to certain trusts and legal entities to those that apply to individuals. Sure sounds to me like they wanted photos, fingerprints and background checks across the board. Then again- NFATCA also submitted a public comment to the rulemaking, stating that the proposed rule bears little resemblance to its petition, or to changes that NFATCA discussed with ATF So what did they really ask for in those discussions? |
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Posted: 9/16/2016 6:07:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a source that shows that? Reason I ask, is here's ATF's version: Sure sounds to me like they wanted photos, fingerprints and background checks across the board. Then again- So what did they really ask for in those discussions? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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i think it'd be worth your time. IMO this very well may be a shadow anti-2A organization. No pro gun people would push 41P, that's for damn sure. If you wanted to get rid of the the CLEO sig, you could have just asked for that...no need to hoist a bunch of BS on trusts. Those clowns can 'suck it' as far as I'm concerned. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS. But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. Do you have a source that shows that? Reason I ask, is here's ATF's version: The proposed regulations responded to a petition for rulemaking, dated December 3, 2009, filed on behalf of the NationalFirearms Act Trade and Collectors Association (NFATCA). The petitioner requested that the Department amend§§ 479.63 and 479.85, as well as corresponding Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) Forms 1 and 4. 78 FR at 55016-55017. The proposed regulations were intended to conform the identification and background check requirements applicable to certain trusts and legal entities to those that apply to individuals. Sure sounds to me like they wanted photos, fingerprints and background checks across the board. Then again- NFATCA also submitted a public comment to the rulemaking, stating that the proposed rule bears little resemblance to its petition, or to changes that NFATCA discussed with ATF So what did they really ask for in those discussions? If Nolo has his way we'll be finding out in the next month or so. |
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Posted: 9/16/2016 6:15:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Nolo has his way we'll be finding out in the next month or so. 
I've only met him once. He seems like a nice guy and he's trying to fight the good fight, but I don't hold out a whole lot of hope that DOJ/ATF will be forthcoming with any useful documents. I plan on trying to make the meeting to see what it's all about. I gave the NFATCA guys my opinion at their booth at the NRA show in either Nashville or Indy and, at that point, the guys in the booth were still pretty well on board with the full 41P. |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 3:43:47 PM EDT
[#9]
And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS.
But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. So you're saying that all NFATCA did was attempt to remove the CLEO requirement while not proposing in anyway, other changes. If so, would you then agree that NFATCA never mentioned trusts being a tool for prohibited persons to obtain NFA items. |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 7:51:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you're saying that all NFATCA did was attempt to remove the CLEO requirement while not proposing in anyway, other changes. If so, would you then agree that NFATCA never mentioned trusts being a tool for prohibited persons to obtain NFA items. Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS.
But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. So you're saying that all NFATCA did was attempt to remove the CLEO requirement while not proposing in anyway, other changes. If so, would you then agree that NFATCA never mentioned trusts being a tool for prohibited persons to obtain NFA items. OK, first, I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of NFATCA. But I do know a lot of the founders from back in '99 from the 1934 Group, which filed suit in federal court to remove the CLEO requirement (via Lomont et. al. v. Summers and Buckles (2000)). I contributed $$$ to the effort, but it lost in federal court. Many of the same folks were NFATCA founders. These guys are very smart, very successful businessmen who make their livings off their NFA sales. Now, when they tried instead to deal directly with ATF on the issue, they did have discussions with them. I was not present, so I cannot say who said what, who brought up what, yada yada yada. Again, they are successful businessmen whose income depends on NFA sales. So, do I believe they mentioned or brought up a subject which would hurt their business? Of course not. But of course, Your Mileage May Vary. 
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Posted: 9/19/2016 8:27:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS. But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i think it'd be worth your time. IMO this very well may be a shadow anti-2A organization. No pro gun people would push 41P, that's for damn sure. If you wanted to get rid of the the CLEO sig, you could have just asked for that...no need to hoist a bunch of BS on trusts. Those clowns can 'suck it' as far as I'm concerned. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And that is all that the NFATCA asked for: Dropping the CLEO sig requirement because it is no longer needed with the advent of NICS. But DOJ/ATF decided to instead add pix/prints for EVERYONE. NFATCA did not ask for that. They asked for more than that. They also threw trust owners under the bus by trading CLEO for prints/Photos on business entities. NFA is exempt from NICS by law, so even ATF could not fix that. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/406342_It_s_Official__CLEO_Certification_To_Be_Required_For_Trusts_Corps.html |
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Posted: 9/22/2016 10:01:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Meeting info from the flyer. HTH |
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Posted: 9/22/2016 12:08:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think anyone knows who NFATCA's members are. If you go, find out exactly WHO in the industry they represent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think anyone knows who NFATCA's members are. If you go, find out exactly WHO in the industry they represent. http://www.nfatca.org/about.htm Who We Are
Officers, Board Members •John Brown, President - Northpoint Response Group •Curt Wolf , Vice President - US Armament Corp •Jeff Folloder, Executive Director, Sec/Treasurer Additional Board Members •Robert Landies - Ohio Ordnance Works •Wayne Weber - Heckler & Koch USA •Robert Segel - Small Arms Review |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 10:33:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone knows who NFATCA's members are. If you go, find out exactly WHO in the industry they represent. http://www.nfatca.org/about.htm Who We Are
Officers, Board Members •John Brown, President - Northpoint Response Group •Curt Wolf , Vice President - US Armament Corp •Jeff Folloder, Executive Director, Sec/Treasurer Additional Board Members •Robert Landies - Ohio Ordnance Works •Wayne Weber - Heckler & Koch USA •Robert Segel - Small Arms Review If that is WHO they represent in the industry, then they don't represent the industry. I'm not asking who is on the board, I'm asking who in the industry they "represent". |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 1:13:26 AM EDT
[#15]
FUK them
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:52:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone knows who NFATCA's members are. If you go, find out exactly WHO in the industry they represent. http://www.nfatca.org/about.htm Who We Are
Officers, Board Members •John Brown, President - Northpoint Response Group •Curt Wolf , Vice President - US Armament Corp •Jeff Folloder, Executive Director, Sec/Treasurer Additional Board Members •Robert Landies - Ohio Ordnance Works •Wayne Weber - Heckler & Koch USA •Robert Segel - Small Arms Review I have already started my personal boycott of those companies. I was going to buy a HK and went with another M&P instead. Fuck them. |
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