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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:25:25 AM EDT
[#1]
I keep a copy in a baggie inside the case that I use for that gun and that gun only. I have a suppressor that I swap between two guns, and I make sure to move the stamp between the bags.
There's no need to keep a copy of the trust with the item(s). |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:30:42 AM EDT
[#2]
I make a reduced copy and roll it up in a tool tube and stick it in the grip or stock storage.
Same for suppressors, a copy in the grip of each gun it might go on. 
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:35:30 AM EDT
[#3]
For every NFA item, I have a "trip pack" with copies of all relevant documents. I keep each packet in a heavy plastic protector. If I pull an NFA item out of the safe to take to the range, I pull the corresponding trip pack which goes into the range bag.
In 15 years, I have yet been asked "papers please" by anybody. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:40:50 AM EDT
[#4]
originals I keep in the safe. I take a photocopy of the form, fold it and put it in the case with the gun. I don't go to any extremes like some folks do.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:59:16 AM EDT
[#5]
IN... Before Fuck Off.
Picture of it on my phone. Fuck anyone that asks. It will not be a nice conversation. My car is regestered too. You did not ask to see that. Fuck off. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 12:25:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Keep a copy of all my stamps on my phone. Never been asked about any of it.
Then again I belong to a private gun club with our own range, so they dont really worry about that kind of stuff. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:21:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Originals in safe , copies in the cases with guns and a copy laminated and made into a luggage tag on a couple of them as well
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:31:42 PM EDT
[#8]
I keep a copy in a envelope in the glove box of the truck.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:35:12 PM EDT
[#9]
I just use a storage type grip and roll up a COPY and stick it in there.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:49:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Ruduced, laminated and rolled up inside battery storage of ASC, SOPMOD etc.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:59:33 PM EDT
[#11]
When I worked for SOTs, I kept a binder in the vehicle with copies of all the forms, along with an employee possessor letter on company letterhead. I traveled interstate frequently between businesses (and to some public ranges) and never once was asked to produce them, not even by ROs. I don't carry any now. I agree it's not a bad idea to have them in a phone or email account as PDFs. Where I am, one could be arrested for possession of NFA firearms at the federal or state level. Technically the registration document is a "defense from prosecution" and you could still be detained until they're authenticated. This is true whether you have them with you or not. BATFE special agents could authenticate them the quickest, obviously.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:09:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Originals in safe, full size copies in plastic protectors in rifle bags, reduced size copies in grips of each gun. Also photos of E stamps on phone. Just because.
I've never been asked to see them anyway. Not a big deal to me, depending on who is asking. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 11:35:44 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't carry any paperwork around anymore once I realize nobody cares one bit about it except other people with papers who are super paranoid. My stuff is legit and the serial #'s are all on the NFA registry, I don't need to carry proof of that when nobody from the ATF is going to ever be stopping me.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 12:10:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't carry any paperwork around anymore once I realize nobody cares one bit about it except other people with papers who are super paranoid. My stuff is legit and the serial #'s are all on the NFA registry, I don't need to carry proof of that when nobody from the ATF is going to ever be stopping me. Are SBR's, Silencers, and Machineguns illegal to posses in your State? In Oregon, if you can't show that you have a tax stamp, the local Popo, can take you for the ride. Sure, you'll beat the charge, but why deal with the BS to begin with? I think having a stamp is an "affirmative defense" for possession of such items. |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 12:24:36 AM EDT
[#15]
I just have a copy in the gun case for what I have. Only been challenged once by an old geezer at a match in Tulsa. It only took me about 30 seconds for me to help him to his car across the parking lot. They tell me he never came back. I was a lot less tolerant then. Now I'd just hold the guys car door open.
I've never seen an LEO ask for any papers. Greg |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 12:38:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Hell no. Not required.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 9:58:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Copies on my phone, hard copies in the range bag. Originals in the safe at home.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 4:14:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I keep a copy in a baggie inside the case that I use for that gun and that gun only. I have a suppressor that I swap between two guns, and I make sure to move the stamp between the bags. There's no need to keep a copy of the trust with the item(s).  spent too much on stamps, only have a few cases
I don't bother fwiw |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 4:19:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are SBR's, Silencers, and Machineguns illegal to posses in your State? In Oregon, if you can't show that you have a tax stamp, the local Popo, can take you for the ride. Sure, you'll beat the charge, but why deal with the BS to begin with? I think having a stamp is an "affirmative defense" for possession of such items. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't carry any paperwork around anymore once I realize nobody cares one bit about it except other people with papers who are super paranoid. My stuff is legit and the serial #'s are all on the NFA registry, I don't need to carry proof of that when nobody from the ATF is going to ever be stopping me. In Oregon, if you can't show that you have a tax stamp, the local Popo, can take you for the ride. Sure, you'll beat the charge, but why deal with the BS to begin with? I think having a stamp is an "affirmative defense" for possession of such items. Colorado is the same way I believe. A stamp is an affirmative defense to a state level illegal act/item. That's probably not the right way to phrase it but you get the idea. If sheriffs aren't enforcing 30rnd mags, I'm rolling the dice on taking a ride over a stamped NFA item. Then again, I've been accused of being to cavalier in my personal life 
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Posted: 8/28/2016 12:52:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Copies on my phone, hard copies in the range bag. Originals in the safe at home. I am a phone guy. One range gives me a hard time. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:18:13 PM EDT
[#21]
I keep copies in a 3 ring binder. I take it with me if i'm taking any NFA stuff out.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:58:52 PM EDT
[#22]
I try and keep copies of all my NFA stuff in my glove box of my car. I drive 99% of the time so
I have copies on my cell phone for that 1% |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 8:50:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Binder in my vehicle with photocopies. I keep copies in PDF format on my phone in iBooks and a folder in an email account
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Posted: 8/30/2016 9:26:27 PM EDT
[#24]
I keep 1/2 sized copies in a 5x7 binder in plastic sleeves along with copy of trust in my range bag. Pdf of all on my phone also.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 10:25:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Nope, keep it at home, with other important paperwork
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Posted: 8/31/2016 2:11:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Copies in range bag and actual F1's inside a safe at home (not my gun safe but another safe that's well hidden).
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Posted: 8/31/2016 6:24:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Another multi page thread on this? Make a copy and keep it with you or in a binder.
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Posted: 9/1/2016 9:57:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I keep copies in a 3 ring binder. I take it with me if i'm taking any NFA stuff out. +1, but in the ten years I have owned nfa stuff, I have never been asked to show it. Not even by LE who belong to my club. |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 2:00:27 PM EDT
[#29]
It's law in some states that you have to provide proof of a tax matter between you and the federal government when asked by local LEO? Never knew that.
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Posted: 9/3/2016 2:51:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's law in some states that you have to provide proof of a tax matter between you and the federal government when asked by local LEO? Never knew that. No. You have to provide proof that you're allowed to possess a controlled item. The only way to do that, that I'm aware of, is to have a copy of your tax stamp. Also, I would never volunteer to let LEO anywhere near my phone. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not going to take a ride when I could just show a copy of my tax stamps. Here's how I keep my mini-copies. Soda bottle pre-form. I also keep 'em in ziplocks in my pelicans and other range bags too. Just in case.  |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 2:48:16 PM EDT
[#31]
I have 5 sets of 5x7 copies laminated on a book ring. 1 set for each vehicle, 3 spare sets to carry in bags as needed.
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Posted: 9/4/2016 7:54:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Just recently when I was inquiring about adding my first suppressor to my trust from my local class 3, he informed me that I needed to carry a copy of my trust with me. I asked why because I knew and always carried a copy of my approved form(s) with my sbrs, he said you need a copy of the trust because several people had run ins with the game wardens and that the wardens were now requiring the trust paperwork and approved form for each nfa item. Has anybody ever heard of this before?
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:19:34 AM EDT
[#33]
Wait a minute I am new to this...........CLEO is a prick and won't sign off on NFA stuff and Michigan only allowed NFA stuff in the last few years.
Now with the new laws I am buying a suppressor and building a SBR. I have never heard that I have to carry my tax stamp with me when I get them. Is this required? |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:22:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait a minute I am new to this...........CLEO is a prick and won't sign off on NFA stuff and Michigan only allowed NFA stuff in the last few years. Now with the new laws I am buying a suppressor and building a SBR. I have never heard that I have to carry my tax stamp with me when I get them. Is this required? |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:37:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Full size copies in a ziplock bag in my glove compartment in my vehicle.
Always there, and I only go to the range in my vehicle, so I'll never not have them with me. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:41:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just recently when I was inquiring about adding my first suppressor to my trust from my local class 3, he informed me that I needed to carry a copy of my trust with me. I asked why because I knew and always carried a copy of my approved form(s) with my sbrs, he said you need a copy of the trust because several people had run ins with the game wardens and that the wardens were now requiring the trust paperwork and approved form for each nfa item. Has anybody ever heard of this before? This one doesn't pass the smell test. A visit/call with the state GF Department might well be in order. If it is required It would be something that general population of shooters have not been informed of and some push might be needed to get that done. Your state rifle association would be a good conduit for that. Greg |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:47:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't carry any paperwork around anymore once I realize nobody cares one bit about it except other people with papers who are super paranoid. My stuff is legit and the serial #'s are all on the NFA registry, I don't need to carry proof of that when nobody from the ATF is going to ever be stopping me. My NFA lawyer says to always keep a copy copy with each gun or suppressor, and that's exactly what I do. It's too easy of a CYA to not do. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:50:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just recently when I was inquiring about adding my first suppressor to my trust from my local class 3, he informed me that I needed to carry a copy of my trust with me. I asked why because I knew and always carried a copy of my approved form(s) with my sbrs, he said you need a copy of the trust because several people had run ins with the game wardens and that the wardens were now requiring the trust paperwork and approved form for each nfa item. Has anybody ever heard of this before? My lawyer addressed this and said no on carrying the trust. He thinks that the mere fact that you are in possession of the stamp covers you leagally. YMMV |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 10:59:18 AM EDT
[#39]
One thought of mine that's been reinforced by this thread...some of the "gun trust lawyers" in this country are the worst sources of info possible, for two reasons:
1. They're looked at and trusted as experts 2. They don't have a clue how most of it actually works, and constantly give out poor info Can't decide if the lawyers, or the guys behind the counters at some of the LGSs are worse. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 11:03:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe in MI but it's not a federal law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wait a minute I am new to this...........CLEO is a prick and won't sign off on NFA stuff and Michigan only allowed NFA stuff in the last few years. Now with the new laws I am buying a suppressor and building a SBR. I have never heard that I have to carry my tax stamp with me when I get them. Is this required? Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 11:43:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My lawyer addressed this and said no on carrying the trust. He thinks that the mere fact that you are in possession of the stamp covers you leagally. YMMV Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just recently when I was inquiring about adding my first suppressor to my trust from my local class 3, he informed me that I needed to carry a copy of my trust with me. I asked why because I knew and always carried a copy of my approved form(s) with my sbrs, he said you need a copy of the trust because several people had run ins with the game wardens and that the wardens were now requiring the trust paperwork and approved form for each nfa item. Has anybody ever heard of this before? My lawyer addressed this and said no on carrying the trust. He thinks that the mere fact that you are in possession of the stamp covers you leagally. YMMV That is what I would think, you need the stamp to be legal and its not up to anyone else (other than atf) on how you really received the ok, so long as the form is approved and you have the stamp. Just curious as I had never heard of this and there should be more than enough info on the approved form for state/local officials. I will inquire with TPWD to see what they have to say about this. |
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Posted: 9/16/2016 4:06:03 PM EDT
[#42]
I keep a copy of everything in the rifle case or in the car when I go out. I also have digital copies on the phone. I've never had anyone who matters ask.
I had an older gentleman at the range ask if I had a stamp for my SBR to which I replied "Yes, I have copy on my phone". He said "you can't do that" to which I replied "why not, they emailed it to me?". |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 4:44:07 PM EDT
[#43]
I keep copies of my stamps in my range bag. My range bag goes with me every time I go shooting no matter what weapon I take. That way I know for sure I will "always" have the a copy of the correct stamp with me. With 16 stamps so far it beats trying to figure out what case has what stamp and what to take with me.
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Posted: 9/23/2016 11:06:19 PM EDT
[#44]
50% sized copies laminated in my range bag
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Posted: 9/24/2016 11:28:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Full sized laminated copies for me.
Almost no chance you'll be asked for them if nothing else happens. But say you're in an accident, have to call the cops, they come, ask you about weapons, you say yes, they say let me see them (or there' already visible from the wreck), they babbled somehting about 'those arn't legal". You want a way to show they are, and avoid them impounding them. Check out all the threads about people strugging to get guns back after they've been taken away by the cops. Cops at the core are bureacrats, bureacrats love paperwork. Show they the fancy looking ATF form, which they can pretend they understand, and then they can say "yes, things are in order", and let you go on your way. |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 1:15:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Full-sized color copies all in a envelop at the bottom of the gun case.
Reduced sized copy in a zip lock bag to hand to RSO and others who feel they are entitled to the info. |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 7:32:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Full-sized color copies all in a envelop at the bottom of the gun case. Reduced sized copy in a zip lock bag to hand to RSO and others who feel they are entitled to the info. Why would a Range Safety Officer feel entitled to determine if something is legal? If you wanted to fake it ten minutes with a bit if photoshopping and you can hand him a false document and make him feel warm all over. If you are taking an illegal weapon yo the range why would you not cover your tracks? I have a word for overly intrusive RSO's and it rhymes with holes. I've been an RSO all over the USA and never had the urge to ask for "papers " . Not likely to start now. You have a guy park a car in front of your house. Do you run out and ask to see his drivers license? Greg |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 10:00:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wait a minute I am new to this...........CLEO is a prick and won't sign off on NFA stuff and Michigan only allowed NFA stuff in the last few years. Now with the new laws I am buying a suppressor and building a SBR. I have never heard that I have to carry my tax stamp with me when I get them. Is this required? Thanks for the info. Yes in Michigan you must have a copy of your tax stamp with your sbr (5) A person who possesses a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is greater than 26 inches in length under this section shall possess a copy of the federal registration of that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle while transporting or using that short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle and shall present that federal registration to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer. And you must register your sbr as a pistol if it is under 26 inches A person, excluding a manufacturer, lawfully making, transferring, or possessing a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle that is 26 inches or less in length under this section shall comply with section 2 or 2a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422 and 28.422a. Eta: registered pistol=carry loaded |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 9:41:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Full-sized color copies all in a envelop at the bottom of the gun case. Reduced sized copy in a zip lock bag to hand to RSO and others who feel they are entitled to the info. Why would a Range Safety Officer feel entitled to determine if something is legal? If you wanted to fake it ten minutes with a bit if photoshopping and you can hand him a false document and make him feel warm all over. If you are taking an illegal weapon yo the range why would you not cover your tracks? I have a word for overly intrusive RSO's and it rhymes with holes. I've been an RSO all over the USA and never had the urge to ask for "papers " . Not likely to start now. You have a guy park a car in front of your house. Do you run out and ask to see his drivers license? Greg Oh, I agree with you 100%! I think its intrusive and unncesseary, but I live in the city and places I can shoot full auto are limited so if a range demands to see paper work my choices are show it or go home. Honestly if someone has the knowledge to build an illegal MG or a suppressor I cant fathom them being stupid enough to go to a public range with it. I think the bigger issue is with SBRs, Ive had two instances where ive met people at the range shooting SBRs that were not registered. One guy was a newer shooter who put a collapsible stock on his pistol AR, and had no clue of the NFA or the ATF form process. The other didnt care and as soon as i mentioned the ATF he started some anti-gov rant, I smiled and went back to my lane. With that said most RSO dont really care, its usually company policy and often just saying I have the forms is enough to appease them. And for those who do want to see it the reduced size forms are perfect, they are so small you cant really ready the text easily and I just highlight the serial number which is all they need to see. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:27:30 AM EDT
[#50]
Reduced size and laminated wallet copies. I will still do this with the new trust, but I will need to keep a trust copy around too. Any day now I will have 4 more, any fucking day.........
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