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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:17:31 PM EDT
I'm a soon to be 07/02 (manufacturer). We have a dealer nearby that has quite a selection of post samples and is doing range rentals.  I was under the impression they needed a law letter to acquire each unit - am I getting something mixed up?

Furthermore, as an 07/02, if they approach me to purchase something, I need to see a law letter or no?
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 9:26:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I'm a soon to be 07/02 (manufacturer). We have a dealer nearby that has quite a selection of post samples and is doing range rentals.  I was under the impression they needed a law letter to acquire each unit - am I getting something mixed up?

Furthermore, as an 07/02, if they approach me to purchase something, I need to see a law letter or no?
View Quote



I talked to a few who have the same license you will be getting. You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything. I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:02:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Love letters, my former Sheriff just said put down what I want and he would sign it. Also if they go mfg they do not need a letter.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:07:27 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Love letters, my former Sheriff just said put down what I want and he would sign it. Also if they go mfg they do not need a letter.
View Quote


I'm the mfg.

The person with the rentals is a dealer.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:19:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Basically wondering if they're a potential customer and the ramifications thereof.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 10:46:00 PM EDT
[#5]
If they're a 01/03 NFA dealer, they'll need a LE demo letter to buy MGs you manufacture. It is up to the buyer to produce said letter. They usually have this handled prior to approaching the sale. If they can get letters, they can buy as many as they can afford. You'll be able to manufacture as many as you can afford, with no letter whatsoever.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 8:11:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Do the letters stay with the gun even after it is sold to another dealer?

Im just curious as sometimes I see ads that say "No letter needed" and its for a post sample MG.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 8:23:42 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Do the letters stay with the gun even after it is sold to another dealer?

Im just curious as sometimes I see ads that say "No letter needed" and its for a post sample MG.
View Quote


When an SOT or dealer gives up his/her license, any post-sample guns in inventory can be sold/transferred without a letter.....
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 8:42:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Do the letters stay with the gun even after it is sold to another dealer?

Im just curious as sometimes I see ads that say "No letter needed" and its for a post sample MG.
View Quote


If the gun is acquired as a sales/demonstration sample via a demonstration letter from a qualified government agency, if the gun is resold to another FFL/SOT it will require another demonstration letter to be obtained by the new transferee FFL/SOT.

The ad you see where no demo letter is required is when an FFL/SOT with post-sample inventory is giving up their license and needs to dispose of any remaining post-sample inventory.

In these going out of business situations the ATF will approve the transfer of a post-sample machinegun without a demonstration letter to another  FFL/SOT "Manufacturer" or "Importer".  

FFL/SOT "Dealers" will still require a demonstration letter to acquire a post sample even under the going out of business scenario.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 1:19:53 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything.
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Quoted:
You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything.


Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.

Quoted:
I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.



Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything.


Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.

Quoted:
I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.


416 upper with Rem handguard... cha-CHING!
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 9:28:58 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
If they're a 01/03 NFA dealer, they'll need a LE demo letter to buy MGs you manufacture. It is up to the buyer to produce said letter. They usually have this handled prior to approaching the sale. If they can get letters, they can buy as many as they can afford. You'll be able to manufacture as many as you can afford, with no letter whatsoever.
View Quote


Thanks. We anticipate some business from local LE and plan to bring a couple of accessories to market, but the dealers would be good to get a little play from.
Question - are we able to receive post samples ourselves?
Link Posted: 7/20/2016 11:18:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes, with a letter. Unless, as stated above, they're transferring from another SOT who is not renewing their SOT and needs to clear all post-86 MG inventory. Those typically sell for more money than when a letter is required.

 

 
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 2:02:13 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:



I talked to a few who have the same license you will be getting. You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything. I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a soon to be 07/02 (manufacturer). We have a dealer nearby that has quite a selection of post samples and is doing range rentals.  I was under the impression they needed a law letter to acquire each unit - am I getting something mixed up?

Furthermore, as an 07/02, if they approach me to purchase something, I need to see a law letter or no?



I talked to a few who have the same license you will be getting. You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything. I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


some dealers kiss ass to get these "letters" just so thy can have shit to play with.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 2:33:07 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:


I'm the mfg.

The person with the rentals is a dealer.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Love letters, my former Sheriff just said put down what I want and he would sign it. Also if they go mfg they do not need a letter.


I'm the mfg.

The person with the rentals is a dealer.


For manufacturing, you can keep.inventory for what you expect to sell.

Also, the letter is NOT always necessary when dealing in post samples. A dealer that has post samples can liquidate his inventory without the receiving dealer requiring a love letter.

Most of the dealers I know, have established connections with LE. The chief will usually sign off on "demo" guns.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 2:38:55 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:


Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.



Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything.


Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.

Quoted:
I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.


He got burned for it...
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 2:42:52 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


If the gun is acquired as a sales/demonstration sample via a demonstration letter from a qualified government agency, if the gun is resold to another FFL/SOT it will require another demonstration letter to be obtained by the new transferee FFL/SOT.

The ad you see where no demo letter is required is when an FFL/SOT with post-sample inventory is giving up their license and needs to dispose of any remaining post-sample inventory.

In these going out of business situations the ATF will approve the transfer of a post-sample machinegun without a demonstration letter to another  FFL/SOT "Manufacturer" or "Importer".  

FFL/SOT "Dealers" will still require a demonstration letter to acquire a post sample even under the going out of business scenario.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Do the letters stay with the gun even after it is sold to another dealer?

Im just curious as sometimes I see ads that say "No letter needed" and its for a post sample MG.


If the gun is acquired as a sales/demonstration sample via a demonstration letter from a qualified government agency, if the gun is resold to another FFL/SOT it will require another demonstration letter to be obtained by the new transferee FFL/SOT.

The ad you see where no demo letter is required is when an FFL/SOT with post-sample inventory is giving up their license and needs to dispose of any remaining post-sample inventory.

In these going out of business situations the ATF will approve the transfer of a post-sample machinegun without a demonstration letter to another  FFL/SOT "Manufacturer" or "Importer".  

FFL/SOT "Dealers" will still require a demonstration letter to acquire a post sample even under the going out of business scenario.


Before a lot of manufacturers popped up in MI. ATF was allowing "dealers" to receive post samples without a love letter from another dealer (eta: That was closing or not renewing their SOT) Haven't seen one come across in at least 7 years. It seams a lot of "dealers" around here have no problems in getting demo letters.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 4:17:27 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


He got burned for it...
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything.


Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.

Quoted:
I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.


He got burned for it...


None of the ones I know who did it git burned. They all profited.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 6:37:20 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

None of the ones I know who did it git burned. They all profited.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You would be surprised at the LE who will sign off on anything.

Yep. I can get any post-sample I want if I wanted to spend the money. I am really not interested in going that route.

Quoted:
I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.

Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.

He got burned for it...

None of the ones I know who did it git burned. They all profited.

Guessing he meant Vahan from autoweapons.
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 7:45:16 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Guessing he meant Vahan from autoweapons.
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Yeah forgot about him!
Link Posted: 7/22/2016 9:24:54 PM EDT
[#20]
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.  

You pay for the Manufactures license, build what you want in the year it is valid.  Next year drop the Manufacture and become a dealer only.  You keep all your demo guns...

MAHA
Link Posted: 7/23/2016 12:07:53 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.
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This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 1:47:15 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.  

You pay for the Manufactures license, build what you want in the year it is valid.  Next year drop the Manufacture and become a dealer only.  You keep all your demo guns...

MAHA
View Quote

C'mon, Maha - there are no "Class 3 items".  Class 3 is a type of dealer who deals Title 2/NFA firearms, while Class 2 is a manufacturer of said items, other than Destructive Devices or Armor-Piercing Ammunition.  Class 1 is an importer of Title 2/NFA.

If someone has bothered to get a Type 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT, I'd certainly hope they know the freakin' regulations, in that they can make anything but DDs or AP ammo, and just report it on F2.  If not - well, rutabaga.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 1:48:57 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.
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The other big advantage of C1/C2 SOT is that they can purchase post-samples from other C1/C2 SOTs who are going out of business, without requiring a law letter.  Technically, C3 can never do that.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 11:01:10 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:

The other big advantage of C1/C2 SOT is that they can purchase post-samples from other C1/C2 SOTs who are going out of business, without requiring a law letter.  Technically, C3 can never do that.
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Quoted:
This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.

The other big advantage of C1/C2 SOT is that they can purchase post-samples from other C1/C2 SOTs who are going out of business, without requiring a law letter.  Technically, C3 can never do that.

While they can, the Type 08's are all over those sales since they can't make their own posties.
Link Posted: 7/24/2016 8:42:17 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:


Yeah forgot about him!
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Guessing he meant Vahan from autoweapons.


Yeah forgot about him!


He is local up here. Bought some stuff off of him, prices where silly high but he has some rare and hard to find items. It's hard to believe he told the feds to get bent with their plea deal. Anyone who knows what was going on just shakes their heads that he would pass on a deal and want to take it to trial. Pretty much everyone agrees he is going to get bent over by the system. Which I can't say he doesn't deserve. Still want one of his China lakes.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:13:28 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:

This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.

This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.


Legit machine shop, with heat treat and precision grind available as well. If it can be manufactured - we can manufacture it.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:17:28 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:

C'mon, Maha - there are no "Class 3 items".  Class 3 is a type of dealer who deals Title 2/NFA firearms, while Class 2 is a manufacturer of said items, other than Destructive Devices or Armor-Piercing Ammunition.  Class 1 is an importer of Title 2/NFA.

If someone has bothered to get a Type 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT, I'd certainly hope they know the freakin' regulations, in that they can make anything but DDs or AP ammo, and just report it on F2.  If not - well, rutabaga.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.  

You pay for the Manufactures license, build what you want in the year it is valid.  Next year drop the Manufacture and become a dealer only.  You keep all your demo guns...

MAHA

C'mon, Maha - there are no "Class 3 items".  Class 3 is a type of dealer who deals Title 2/NFA firearms, while Class 2 is a manufacturer of said items, other than Destructive Devices or Armor-Piercing Ammunition.  Class 1 is an importer of Title 2/NFA.

If someone has bothered to get a Type 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT, I'd certainly hope they know the freakin' regulations, in that they can make anything but DDs or AP ammo, and just report it on F2.  If not - well, rutabaga.


It's ah addition to an existing business. I'm aware we can manufacture and plan to bring some low cost suppressors to market. The manufacture of post samples is just icing on the cake.

I know I'd like pussy from the Vivid lineup and I've never had them - Don't think I'd need to know the full extent of 07/02 regs to know we want to get started. The biggest question for most is can you afford it, and I can.  The rest is just garnish for that veggie dish.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:49:21 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


It's ah addition to an existing business. I'm aware we can manufacture and plan to bring some low cost suppressors to market. The manufacture of post samples is just icing on the cake.

I know I'd like pussy from the Vivid lineup and I've never had them - Don't think I'd need to know the full extent of 07/02 regs to know we want to get started. The biggest question for most is can you afford it, and I can.  The rest is just garnish for that veggie dish.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.  

You pay for the Manufactures license, build what you want in the year it is valid.  Next year drop the Manufacture and become a dealer only.  You keep all your demo guns...

MAHA

C'mon, Maha - there are no "Class 3 items".  Class 3 is a type of dealer who deals Title 2/NFA firearms, while Class 2 is a manufacturer of said items, other than Destructive Devices or Armor-Piercing Ammunition.  Class 1 is an importer of Title 2/NFA.

If someone has bothered to get a Type 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT, I'd certainly hope they know the freakin' regulations, in that they can make anything but DDs or AP ammo, and just report it on F2.  If not - well, rutabaga.


It's ah addition to an existing business. I'm aware we can manufacture and plan to bring some low cost suppressors to market. The manufacture of post samples is just icing on the cake.

I know I'd like pussy from the Vivid lineup and I've never had them - Don't think I'd need to know the full extent of 07/02 regs to know we want to get started. The biggest question for most is can you afford it, and I can.  The rest is just garnish for that veggie dish.

Don't make them heavy as fuck like every other low cost suppressor. Consumers will pony up the money for a known product if they're going to do mag dumps on a 10.3". Don't plan to compete in the "belt fed rated" badass category. Nail the basics.
Lightweight and nothing ugly and you'll sell some cans IMHO
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 6:25:16 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

Don't make them heavy as fuck like every other low cost suppressor. Consumers will pony up the money for a known product if they're going to do mag dumps on a 10.3". Don't plan to compete in the "belt fed rated" badass category. Nail the basics.
Lightweight and nothing ugly and you'll sell some cans IMHO
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.  

You pay for the Manufactures license, build what you want in the year it is valid.  Next year drop the Manufacture and become a dealer only.  You keep all your demo guns...

MAHA

C'mon, Maha - there are no "Class 3 items".  Class 3 is a type of dealer who deals Title 2/NFA firearms, while Class 2 is a manufacturer of said items, other than Destructive Devices or Armor-Piercing Ammunition.  Class 1 is an importer of Title 2/NFA.

If someone has bothered to get a Type 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT, I'd certainly hope they know the freakin' regulations, in that they can make anything but DDs or AP ammo, and just report it on F2.  If not - well, rutabaga.


It's ah addition to an existing business. I'm aware we can manufacture and plan to bring some low cost suppressors to market. The manufacture of post samples is just icing on the cake.

I know I'd like pussy from the Vivid lineup and I've never had them - Don't think I'd need to know the full extent of 07/02 regs to know we want to get started. The biggest question for most is can you afford it, and I can.  The rest is just garnish for that veggie dish.

Don't make them heavy as fuck like every other low cost suppressor. Consumers will pony up the money for a known product if they're going to do mag dumps on a 10.3". Don't plan to compete in the "belt fed rated" badass category. Nail the basics.
Lightweight and nothing ugly and you'll sell some cans IMHO


That's the plan so far! Thanks

Link Posted: 7/26/2016 10:16:07 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:

Legit machine shop, with heat treat and precision grind available as well. If it can be manufactured - we can manufacture it.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.

This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.

Legit machine shop, with heat treat and precision grind available as well. If it can be manufactured - we can manufacture it.

Sweet.  Don't forget ITAR registration.  Sucks but you pay to play.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:01:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Let me see if I get this right...

An FFL/SOT who has manufactured post samples and decides to go out of business he can transfer his remaining post sample inventory to any FFL dealer that also has his sot without the dealer receiving the post sample inventory not needing  a LE letter? Just straight transfer ?


Upon receiving the post samples from the out of business sot/manufacturer dealer the receiving dealer can keep the post samples but not sell without a love letter to a next buyer?
Am I correct in that ?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:14:56 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:



Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.
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Quoted:

Quoted:
I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.


And that person, along with the deputies who signed the law letter, were federally prosecuted for that shit.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:23:16 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:

Sweet.  Don't forget ITAR registration.  Sucks but you pay to play.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are an 07/02 arent you a manufacture of Class 3 items?  As a manufacture you can make what ever you want, not DD becasue that is another class of FFL.

This assumes he has the capability.  Not all manufacturers are created equal.

Legit machine shop, with heat treat and precision grind available as well. If it can be manufactured - we can manufacture it.

Sweet.  Don't forget ITAR registration.  Sucks but you pay to play.


Already languishing in an account.

Interview with BATFE next week.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:52:01 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
Let me see if I get this right...

An FFL/SOT who has manufactured post samples and decides to go out of business he can transfer his remaining post sample inventory to any FFL dealer that also has his sot without the dealer receiving the post sample inventory not needing  a LE letter? Just straight transfer ?


Upon receiving the post samples from the out of business sot/manufacturer dealer the receiving dealer can keep the post samples but not sell without a love letter to a next buyer?
Am I correct in that ?
View Quote

C1/C2 going out of business can transfer to another C1/C2 without a law letter, but not to a C3.  Receiving C1/C2 can keep them while they keep their SOT, but not sell without a law letter, unless in turn to another C1/C2 when going out of business.

Bubbles mentioned Type 08 (Importer) FFL with Class 1 SOT are among the primary consumers of no-letter post-samples, because they cannot themselves manufacture like an 07/C2 can. It's much easier for a capable C2 to whip up post-samples in their shop, than to get import approval any old post-sample NFA, apparently.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 5:03:56 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
Let me see if I get this right...

An FFL/SOT who has manufactured post samples and decides to go out of business he can transfer his remaining post sample inventory to any FFL dealer that also has his sot without the dealer receiving the post sample inventory not needing  a LE letter? Just straight transfer ?


Upon receiving the post samples from the out of business sot/manufacturer dealer the receiving dealer can keep the post samples but not sell without a love letter to a next buyer?
Am I correct in that ?
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.105

(f) Discontinuance of business. Since section 922(o), Title 18, U.S.C., makes it unlawful to transfer or possess a machine gun except as provided in the law, any qualified manufacturer, importer, or dealer intending to discontinue business shall, prior to going out of business, transfer in compliance with the provisions of this part any machine gun manufactured or imported after May 19, 1986, to a Federal, State or local governmental entity, qualified manufacturer, qualified importer, or, subject to the provisions of paragraph (d) of this section, dealer qualified to possess such, machine gun.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 5:06:27 PM EDT
[#36]
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And that person, along with the deputies who signed the law letter, were federally prosecuted for that shit.
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I never could say but I bet there is some kickbacks going on.


Somewhere? Sure. Years ago a lot of Post Sample HK416 were being demo-ed and parted out for cash. A $1500 gun could fetch $6-7K easy. There is always some idiot thinking up something stupid.


And that person, along with the deputies who signed the law letter, were federally prosecuted for that shit.


Well it was a lot more than one person who did it. As mentioned earlier, all the ones I know who did it, nothing happened.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 5:29:27 PM EDT
[#37]
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C1/C2 going out of business can transfer to another C1/C2 without a law letter, but not to a C3.  Receiving C1/C2 can keep them while they keep their SOT, but not sell without a law letter, unless in turn to another C1/C2 when going out of business.

Bubbles mentioned Type 08 (Importer) FFL with Class 1 SOT are among the primary consumers of no-letter post-samples, because they cannot themselves manufacture like an 07/C2 can. It's much easier for a capable C2 to whip up post-samples in their shop, than to get import approval any old post-sample NFA, apparently.
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Let me see if I get this right...

An FFL/SOT who has manufactured post samples and decides to go out of business he can transfer his remaining post sample inventory to any FFL dealer that also has his sot without the dealer receiving the post sample inventory not needing  a LE letter? Just straight transfer ?


Upon receiving the post samples from the out of business sot/manufacturer dealer the receiving dealer can keep the post samples but not sell without a love letter to a next buyer?
Am I correct in that ?

C1/C2 going out of business can transfer to another C1/C2 without a law letter, but not to a C3.  Receiving C1/C2 can keep them while they keep their SOT, but not sell without a law letter, unless in turn to another C1/C2 when going out of business.

Bubbles mentioned Type 08 (Importer) FFL with Class 1 SOT are among the primary consumers of no-letter post-samples, because they cannot themselves manufacture like an 07/C2 can. It's much easier for a capable C2 to whip up post-samples in their shop, than to get import approval any old post-sample NFA, apparently.


Ok so in other words a regular FFL with SOT can get these post samples from going out of business dealers and ATF will approve them.

I guess that's why I see so many dealers with post samples and also selling in gunbroker saying "no letter needed"

It's just more of its yours til your outta business there's no profit to be made out of it.

Not a bad idea I suppose.  Maybe I shouldn't say idea. Maybe opportunity when a dealer with post samples goes outta business  

FA is fine and dandy and all but I think only a few really make it worthwhile. Atleast to me.
Such as

Mp5
Mp5k
Glock

And i guess a few others. I'd love to have a FA mp5k.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 5:54:13 PM EDT
[#38]
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Ok so in other words a regular FFL with SOT can get these post samples from going out of business dealers and ATF will approve them.
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If by regular dealer you mean Type 01 with Class 3 SOT, then no.  C1/C2 don't need a letter, but C3 still does (that's what "subject to the provisions of paragraph (d) of this section" means).

C1/C2, no letter.  C3 still needs letter.

Regular C3 with a lot of post samples just have friendly relations with local law enforcment.
Link Posted: 7/27/2016 12:18:17 AM EDT
[#39]
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If by regular dealer you mean Type 01 with Class 3 SOT, then no.  C1/C2 don't need a letter, but C3 still does (that's what "subject to the provisions of paragraph (d) of this section" means).

C1/C2, no letter.  C3 still needs letter.

Regular C3 with a lot of post samples just have friendly relations with local law enforcment.
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Ok so in other words a regular FFL with SOT can get these post samples from going out of business dealers and ATF will approve them.

If by regular dealer you mean Type 01 with Class 3 SOT, then no.  C1/C2 don't need a letter, but C3 still does (that's what "subject to the provisions of paragraph (d) of this section" means).

C1/C2, no letter.  C3 still needs letter.

Regular C3 with a lot of post samples just have friendly relations with local law enforcment.



So no matter what still have to be a manufacturer or importer. Can't be just an FFL with c3. Got it.
Thanks
Link Posted: 8/16/2016 12:05:39 AM EDT
[#40]
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Let me see if I get this right...

An FFL/SOT who has manufactured post samples and decides to go out of business he can transfer his remaining post sample inventory to any FFL dealer that also has his sot without the dealer receiving the post sample inventory not needing  a LE letter? Just straight transfer ?
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Not exactly...The transferor has to send a letter with the Form 3 stating they are going out of business and not renewing their SOT.
Link Posted: 8/21/2016 4:06:55 AM EDT
[#41]
so all post samples have to originate with a Law Letter?  If you are a partner with an existing SOT, this allows you to possess post samples correct as long as legitimately acquired by the SOT?
Link Posted: 8/21/2016 4:23:12 AM EDT
[#42]
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so all post samples have to originate with a Law Letter?  If you are a partner with an existing SOT, this allows you to possess post samples correct as long as legitimately acquired by the SOT?
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No.

All post-samples to a C3 have to originate with a law letter or purchase order, etc.
Post samples to a C1 can be imported freely, or acquired from other SOTs with a letter, or without a letter if the selling SOT is going out of business.
Post samples to a C2 can be manufactured anew freely, or acquired from other SOTs with a letter, or without a letter if the selling SOT is going out of business.

If by "partner" you mean an RP on the SOTs FFL, then yes, the RP partner can possess legitimately acquired post samples as long as the SOT remains current.
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