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Posted: 9/1/2016 4:26:12 PM EDT
[#1]
You can still use a will or any other legal instrument to pass along NFA items to lawful heirs. (Tax-Exempt on ATF Form 5)
Trust is just another estate-planning tool, and allows you to specifically state who may have access to NFA items without your immediate presence, ala trustees. Estates, Trusts, and Other Transfers by Operation of Law.
When a firearm is being transferred from an estate by bequest or intestate succession (see 27 CFR § 479.90a),or by other operation of law to a beneficiary or other authorized recipient, ATF Form 5 is used to effect the transfer. The executor, trustee, or other person appointed to dispose of property shall provide documentation of the legal status of the person entitled to receive property, and shall identify that person in item 2a. In the case of an estate, item 3e shall be completed to reflect the decedent's information. If the transfer is to someone other than to a person identified under operation of law, the transfer is subject to transfer tax and ATF Form 4 shall be used. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 1:29:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Without a trust you have to pay the transfer tax you're saying? I don't understand the part about the background check... I don't plan on giving my things to people that couldn't pass a background check, explain what I am missing With the new laws you can still use the trust.. Everything is the same other than the fingerprint part Quote HistoryQuoted:
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UBC = Universal Background Check law. So with a trust there is a no tax, no background check transfer to beneficiaries; without a trust - guess what?... Without a trust you have to pay the transfer tax you're saying? I don't understand the part about the background check... I don't plan on giving my things to people that couldn't pass a background check, explain what I am missing With the new laws you can still use the trust.. Everything is the same other than the fingerprint part WA's variant of the ubc law the democrats love so much is sufficiently extreme that a trust is the only easy way to make sure you aren't committing a felony just by sharing a gun with a friend when shooting in the woods. The law was written by people that have never even held a gun, and therefore have no idea how common it is, for countless reasons, to share a gun, at all kinds of places. Simple example: go to shoot on some nearby gov land with your neighbor and your uncle. You whip out your sbr to shoot. Your fellow shooters think it's awesome and want to shoot a mag through it. When you hand them the gun, that's a misdemeanor.. When they hand it back it's a felony. If you had a trust you simply make them cotrustees or something similar such that they can possess trust property without it being a transfer in the eyes of the government. Right now only a few states a burdened with this kind of "everything is a transfer and must go through an FFL" bullshit law, but the democrats want a federal version ASAP and Hillary will give it to them. When that happens, trust > individual x a gazillion. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 6:23:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not stopping but I won't be adding any new stamps until the backlog from the panic buying has cleared up. There's not point buying things you have to wait years to pick up. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 9:57:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Done with NFA??? Not hardly. I just received two stamped Form1's that I sent in in March (exactly 6 months mailbox to mailbox) as I wanted to get a couple more in pre-41f. Next week I am sending in a Form1 and Form4 on an LLC but I guess this time with finger prints and photos. All of my NFA's have been on an LLC (16 so far) but this will be the first with fingerprints and photos.
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Posted: 9/2/2016 8:47:41 PM EDT
[#5]
is there new forms available for Form 1 ? what is needed ?
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Posted: 9/2/2016 9:18:03 PM EDT
[#6]
how does it go, do you submit the two form 1's to ATF ? when do you mail or deliver the CLEO copy ? does ATF need to sign it ?
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Posted: 9/2/2016 9:40:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
is there new forms available for Form 1 ? what is needed ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
is there new forms available for Form 1 ? what is needed ? Quoted:
how does it go, do you submit the two form 1's to ATF ? when do you mail or deliver the CLEO copy ? does ATF need to sign it ? See if this sticky helps. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 9:53:26 PM EDT
[#8]
just went thru the sticky, not sure when to send CLEO notification. does it need to be signed by ATF ?
im a sole member LLC, as far as i can see i have zero responsible persons. is that correct ? thanks i really appreciate it Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
is there new forms available for Form 1 ? what is needed ? Quoted:
how does it go, do you submit the two form 1's to ATF ? when do you mail or deliver the CLEO copy ? does ATF need to sign it ? See if this sticky helps. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 9:57:48 PM EDT
[#9]
ATF has nothing to do with CLEO Copy. You document on the ATF's copy the name and address you're sending it to, and basically send them at the same time.
You're a responsible person in your situation (as opposed to filing as an individual). |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:06:52 PM EDT
[#10]
ok, ATF doesnt sign the CLEO copy but i make note of the address where i sent it ?
for the RP , i write in 1 ? and my name ? thanks do i need to fill out another form also ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF has nothing to do with CLEO Copy. You document on the ATF's copy the name and address you're sending it to, and basically send them at the same time. You're a responsible person in your situation (as opposed to filing as an individual). |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:23:44 PM EDT
[#11]
will it be an issue if i had responsible persons living in non NFA state ? how would that work for Trusts that have multiple people, some in non NFA states ?
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:31:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok, ATF doesnt sign the CLEO copy but i make note of the address where i sent it ? for the RP , i write in 1 ? and my name ? thanks do i need to fill out another form also ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok, ATF doesnt sign the CLEO copy but i make note of the address where i sent it ? for the RP , i write in 1 ? and my name ? thanks do i need to fill out another form also ? Quoted:
ATF has nothing to do with CLEO Copy. You document on the ATF's copy the name and address you're sending it to, and basically send them at the same time. You're a responsible person in your situation (as opposed to filing as an individual). Look at the sticky again (for application by entity). Then look at the form. It's very clear where you document the the CLEO info. You have to send in a 5320.23 for each RP. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:32:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
will it be an issue if i had responsible persons living in non NFA state ? how would that work for Trusts that have multiple people, some in non NFA states ? I believe it'll be an issue. Why would you have an RP that couldn't possess the items? You'd need to remove them from the trust/corp/LLC. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:49:23 PM EDT
[#14]
because they Could possess the items in the Registered state.
its the same as if an FFL has a business in say Arizona but lives next door in CA. or a state that totally bans silencers even for dealers, but the dealer does business in cool state. even he cant posses in ban / home state. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:50:52 PM EDT
[#15]
i understand it all now. takes me a little longer to get it to sink in... lol. thanks. your info is awesome.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at the sticky again (for application by entity). Then look at the form. It's very clear where you document the the CLEO info. You have to send in a 5320.23 for each RP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ok, ATF doesnt sign the CLEO copy but i make note of the address where i sent it ? for the RP , i write in 1 ? and my name ? thanks do i need to fill out another form also ? Quoted:
ATF has nothing to do with CLEO Copy. You document on the ATF's copy the name and address you're sending it to, and basically send them at the same time. You're a responsible person in your situation (as opposed to filing as an individual). Look at the sticky again (for application by entity). Then look at the form. It's very clear where you document the the CLEO info. You have to send in a 5320.23 for each RP. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:55:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
because they Could possess the items in the Registered state. It's never been an issue before, as it was up to the end user to be compliant. With 41F in effect, who really knows? Is the ATF simply doing a background check and making sure the RP is legal to own, regardless of location? Will the CLEO get the RP form and contact ATF to say it's not allowed? Until we have some real world examples, we won't really know. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 10:57:35 PM EDT
[#17]
i agree... like a test case. and who wants to be the test case. thanks
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's never been an issue before, as it was up to the end user to be compliant. With 41F in effect, who really knows? Is the ATF simply doing a background check and making sure the RP is legal to own, regardless of location? Will the CLEO get the RP form and contact ATF to say it's not allowed? Until we have some real world examples, we won't really know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
because they Could possess the items in the Registered state. It's never been an issue before, as it was up to the end user to be compliant. With 41F in effect, who really knows? Is the ATF simply doing a background check and making sure the RP is legal to own, regardless of location? Will the CLEO get the RP form and contact ATF to say it's not allowed? Until we have some real world examples, we won't really know. |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 10:30:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Maybe an MG... if prices 'stabilize'.
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Posted: 9/4/2016 9:22:14 AM EDT
[#19]
For the time being, yes. I am going to wait a couple years for things to calm down, and save 5-10k to buy duplicate suppressors of the ones I already have, a few new ones, and other assorted SBRs. The goal is to have enough for the rest of my life and if I have children, their lives too.
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Posted: 9/4/2016 1:13:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
have enough for the rest of my life and if I have children, their lives too. 
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Posted: 9/4/2016 3:20:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe an MG... if prices 'stabilize'. LOL |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 5:50:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Personally my last stamp was over a year ago and I didn't need to get anything else. I've talked to numerous friends that are also not buying anything else now with the new regulations. Anyone else feel the same way? I just don't feel like I absolutely need anything to justify the added headache of doing the additional paperwork. Does anyone think the government will take a huge loss on revenue now? You would think they would try to make it easier for people that have been doing this for years. No, not me. In fact, I'm ecstatic about the new change. The only problem that I had with Title II items was "finding" a CLEO to signoff on the paperwork. Now, the biggest problem that I had is gone! That's great news for me. Now, the only thing holding me back is saving the money to get something new. I just wished that BATFE had made this change 27 years ago, back when things were a lot cheaper and I had a lot more money because I wasn't retired. |
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Posted: 9/4/2016 6:36:57 PM EDT
[#23]
No, absolutely not.
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Posted: 9/4/2016 10:36:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe an MG... if prices 'stabilize'. LOL If you're going to buy, I recommend that you go ahead and buy This year's high prices are next year's bargain prices People have been waiting for the prices to stabilize since NIB Colt M16A1s were selling for $5000. Can't go no higher than that! |
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Posted: 9/5/2016 5:55:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Currently waiting on stamps for the following.
Octane 9 Osprey 45 Omega and 2 SBR lowers... The octane 9 was an early march submission so Im hoping that comes back soon..they other three were submitted 30 days prior to 41F so who knows when I'll see them. I won't say Im finished with class 3 stuff, but I'm done for now...Once I start getting some of those stamps back I'll probably start up again. I wouldn't mind getting another spectre ii and maybe an Obsidian 45. |
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