?


Also, if you're using a trust, and buying one from a shop, do you give them your original to make a copy of? Or can you give them a copy of it instead?

Never give anyone your original. You keep it safe. Everyone else gets copies. Ive used photocopies for all my submissions. No issues.

Copy of Trust, always give a copy.


Once approved. You keep a copy of the approved form(s) (stamp) for w/each NFA item. (originals are kept in safe storage)

and it would be wise to keep with your approved form(s) a copy of the Certification of Trust.
In my case it lists notarized signatures of those who can legally be in possession of the NFA item.

Hmmm, I've scanned my trust into a PDF with my printer. Its not the best quality. Can barely read the signatures.  But this is good to know.

I have 2-side scans (.pdf's) and photos of all NFA stamps on my phone....and that's all folks.

I know some people who make miniature 2-sided copies and have them laminated.

I go with the kitchen sink approach:

1. copy of the F1/4 in every range / gun case I have, in a baggie so it doesn't get wet/destroyed (usually results in 2-3 copies by itself).
2. copy in the glove box of every car I own
3. digital version in Google drive
4. copy of #3 saved locally on my device just in case there is no network access ( i shoot in the boonies).

2016 has afforded us smartphones. Use them!

I use Google Docs to store my approved  forms.  Since they started handing out "e-stamps",  it set a precedent that you don't really need a hard copy.

phone failure, battery dead, cop that doesn't even know eforms ever existed...all could be potential issues. To each their own, though, as always!

The cops should have a way of checking with the ATF and finding out if the item in question is registered and to whom. Supposedly they have a line they can call in to the ATF on and check.

There is no requirement to carry a stack of paper around.

Question on the stamp itself, is it kosher to copy it or would that be like copying currency and a no-go?

Never carry your original stamps around if you can avoid it. Copies will suffice.

As far as not needing to carry around a stack of paper, you are techinally correct, but they could be the difference between chatting with a cop about your stuff for a few mins and taking a ride in a cop car and getting all your shit confiscated. Funny thing about PDs and guns, they don't like to give them back without lots of time, effort, lawyering etc. I'd rather carry a stack of paperwork around. Just my opinion, of course.

Functionally, there is no difference between showing a cop PDFs on your phone and having a paper copy. I'd recommend emailing them to yourself through a major email provider, that way anyone with internet access could view them, even if you don't have a working smartphone. Technically, you're only required to produce the forms for an ATF agent. Maybe I'm just used to LE in the south, but here your behavior is more investigated than which weapons and paperwork you may or may not have. Most LEO's have never seen a Form 4. Cops don't have any special ATF number. They call the same number as you for ATF NFA in WV, and just press 3 at the prompt. Of course this only works during the day M-F. Official trace requests are even slower.
 
 
 
 

So when out shooting, you just need a copy of the stamp? No need for a copy of the trust or certificate?

Does the stamp say what it's for or is it generic?

On the mail in forms, the stamp will have the serial number of the item and the examiners initial along with the approval date. On the eForm, just a watermark stamp. Just copie to pdf and have it on you phone, a backup copie with you item doesn't hurt either.

Most Police don't know what an NFA item is or if they are legal or illegal. The only line I know to call would be the one that anyone can call during normal business hours to check status. Everyone at my department usually just call me because they know I am into NFA stuff. I have never been told of a number to call anytime to check the status, and in 10 years I can think of only one time it has even come up that I would have wanted to.

From what I understand there is no requirement to keep the paperwork with you or to show it to anyone other then the ATF. But alot of states have state laws against NFA items that are worded something to the effect that the item must comply with federal laws to be legal on the state level.

So in that case it would be helpful to have proof your are complying with federal law. Seems like it could potentially save a lot of time and money if you met up with an officer that did not know about NFA weapons... which most do not.

Aside from other officers asking me about NFA stuff I know we do have numbers to call to get in touch with local ATF offices and I'm sure they could wake someone up after hours,  but my experience with the ATF guys is not all of them really no much about NFA stuff either.

James

There is no requirement, ever, to carry or present paper for NFA guns.

They will check by calling the ATF.

There is if you're challenged by an ATF agent. That aside though...

No requirement to put your hands on the steering wheel where they can be seen when a cup pulls you over either... I'm still going to do it. Feel free to nervously reach into your pockets or waistline area while talking to the next cop you see if you'd like. Some actions are a good idea regardless of the law and since it's incredibly easy to have copies of forms in a range bag...

To each their own. I'd rather be as safe as possible.

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This really isn't that difficult. Carry your copies of your F4 or F1 and a copy of your trust. Done.

Emailing copies to yourself, PDFS on your phone???? Just carry copies of your paperwork. This isn't rocket science.

ATF 24 hour hotline

800-800-3855

LEO only

Who knows if useful or not.

Why carry it?  It isn't most people's business and the ones who's business it is can call and easily verify if they feel the need to.

I plan to carry a photocopy with my first silencer but it will only come out when I am trying to teach people the process.

Their range, their rules. Only outside range I can now shoot at requires paperwork. If I want to shoot, I show it. Dont be suprised if no one asks you about the process. Most dont care, or dont know enough to ask. M16, M11A1, HALO and CAC9, BM SBR. I have been asked a grand total of twice in the last 15 years about NFA process. This included shooting at a local PD range that was also public access, and numerous indoor ranges where I had uniformed LEO shooting next to me.

Thankyou!