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Posted: 4/26/2016 12:20:08 AM EDT
[#1]
I do want one, but there are a lot of other $1,500 items I want more.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 12:38:48 AM EDT
[#2]
How much to get into one now? If bought as Title 1, how much is the barrel to convert to NFA...or can the original barrel be modified instead?
How much is ammo? and is it readily available? I don't have a DD...and it's the one thing in the back of my mind I'd like to do before 7/13. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 12:46:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much to get into one now? If bought as Title 1, how much is the barrel to convert to NFA...or can the original barrel be modified instead? How much is ammo? and is it readily available? I don't have a DD...and it's the one thing in the back of my mind I'd like to do before 7/13. There are some companies that will sell you one as a title 1 firearm, and hold the associated barrel til your form 1 is approved, then ship it to you. I think, depending on if you go rail mounted or old school, it is in the $1400-1500 range doing it that way- pretty much the same as buying one on a form 4. Chalk rounds/Training Practice rounds are pretty readily available, and are 5 to 10 bucks a round usually, depending on quantity. I've seen them as low as $2.75 a round in the last year if you buy a case of 100. Chalk rounds aren't where it is at though- cannon rounds are. Reusable rounds that you insert between 10 and 18 rounds of 22lr in, or a 12ga shell surrounded by 22lr, or multiple shotgun shells, or some combination similar. Those cost a few hundred bucks, but then you can reuse them over and over. You can also get smoke and flare rounds, including illuminating parachute flares. There are some other rounds out there as well- I think Grog18b (the definitive authority on 40mm stuff here on ARF) had a couple dozen different types of rounds at one point. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:31:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are some companies that will sell you one as a title 1 firearm, and hold the associated barrel til your form 1 is approved, then ship it to you. I think, depending on if you go rail mounted or old school, it is in the $1400-1500 range doing it that way- pretty much the same as buying one on a form 4. Chalk rounds/Training Practice rounds are pretty readily available, and are 5 to 10 bucks a round usually, depending on quantity. I've seen them as low as $2.75 a round in the last year if you buy a case of 100. Chalk rounds aren't where it is at though- cannon rounds are. Reusable rounds that you insert between 10 and 18 rounds of 22lr in, or a 12ga shell surrounded by 22lr, or multiple shotgun shells, or some combination similar. Those cost a few hundred bucks, but then you can reuse them over and over. You can also get smoke and flare rounds, including illuminating parachute flares. There are some other rounds out there as well- I think Grog18b (the definitive authority on 40mm stuff here on ARF) had a couple dozen different types of rounds at one point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How much to get into one now? If bought as Title 1, how much is the barrel to convert to NFA...or can the original barrel be modified instead? How much is ammo? and is it readily available? I don't have a DD...and it's the one thing in the back of my mind I'd like to do before 7/13. There are some companies that will sell you one as a title 1 firearm, and hold the associated barrel til your form 1 is approved, then ship it to you. I think, depending on if you go rail mounted or old school, it is in the $1400-1500 range doing it that way- pretty much the same as buying one on a form 4. Chalk rounds/Training Practice rounds are pretty readily available, and are 5 to 10 bucks a round usually, depending on quantity. I've seen them as low as $2.75 a round in the last year if you buy a case of 100. Chalk rounds aren't where it is at though- cannon rounds are. Reusable rounds that you insert between 10 and 18 rounds of 22lr in, or a 12ga shell surrounded by 22lr, or multiple shotgun shells, or some combination similar. Those cost a few hundred bucks, but then you can reuse them over and over. You can also get smoke and flare rounds, including illuminating parachute flares. There are some other rounds out there as well- I think Grog18b (the definitive authority on 40mm stuff here on ARF) had a couple dozen different types of rounds at one point. I think you may have just answered the question of why people don't get into it. Why pay so much for the launcher and then have to find prohibitively expensive ammo if you can't even really get HE stuff. a 37mm can do all that and is only a few hundred with pretty damn cheap shells, especially if you're willing to drop to the 26.5 insert. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:42:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Two reason, I have never seen a title I in the wild. Thus doing a transfer on top of all the other bullshit is a bit of a turn off. That and I simply would have nowhere to shoot it. Not too mention its really a consolidation prize to my true desire, a M79.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:52:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two reason, I have never seen a title I in the wild. Thus doing a transfer on top of all the other bullshit is a bit of a turn off. That and I simply would have nowhere to shoot it. Not too mention its really a consolidation prize to my true desire, a M79. This |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:10:39 AM EDT
[#7]
The 40mm platform has pretty limited personal allure for me.
1. Not a lot of options in regards to places to shoot one of these, even with chalk practice round .I think the fun of shooting canisters of chalk would also wear off real quick. 2. The beehive adapters which shoots a dozen 22LR rounds at the time is certainly a creative way to expand the use of a 40mm launcher. However after spending $1500 on a launcher and $500 on a beehive insert to shoot a dozen 22lr rounds at the same time, I could see myself using it a handful of time before the novelty wore off. I would rather spend $2000 on 22LR ammo for one of my machineguns which can shoot 50 22LR rounds in one trigger pull. 3. I don't think I would ever shoot flares, smoke, buckshot, etc. rounds. If I was to purchase one I would probably also purchase the stand alone launcher frame kit as well which is another $700. Ultimately it would be one of those things I would purchase, shoot half a case of ammo through, and then it would turn into a wall hanger that is almost impossible to sell. Maybe if there was some type of on impact exploding spotter/bird bomb round commonly available for a reasonable cost (like the old M382 rounds) than maybe I would have more interest. So for me the $2000+ in acquisition and NFA tax cost isn't worth the upside for something that would ultimately just become a conversation piece and another thing for me to store. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:26:39 AM EDT
[#8]
There's a ton of 203s on GB right now. Both in title 1 receiver and as a registered DD. Barrel and rail mount. I bought one because they were cheap.
I'm into my 203 for $1375 not including the form 1 tax. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:47:26 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm plugging away at OT to pick one up in May. Want to build what I carried.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 11:19:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Had an LMT on a KAC stand alone mount. Had both type beehive rounds, a pile of reloading components, nose cones, driving bands, aluminum cases, baton rounds. Loaded my own chalk rounds. Frankly it was just meh. It had no real fun factor, no utilitarian use, even the beehive rounds were unimpressive. Sold it shortly after I acquired it. Frankly a SBS has more utility & fun factor. If you could purchase some reasonably priced safe pyrotechnic rounds for a M203, something that went bang, then they'd be more fun.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 11:53:26 AM EDT
[#11]
They're pointless as all get out, but something about them keeps me intrigued. I sold my 79 and really missed it. Bought another on for significantly cheaper than what I sold mine last month to replace it and figured to jump on the 203 wagon. I got the occasion to shoot some HE out of the 79 and may get to again one day.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 12:05:02 PM EDT
[#12]
I thought ATF ruled even the chalk rounds were individual DDs and each one needed a transfer? I really hope someone corrects me on this.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 12:26:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought ATF ruled even the chalk rounds were individual DDs and each one needed a transfer? I really hope someone corrects me on this. Rogue local office it seems. And not DD, just claimed you needed an FEL to store them. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 12:36:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I know there is a DD forum, but I wanted to put this here as it gets much more traffic. For those of you that have even a passive interest in owning an M203, what is stopping you? They can be had for less than an AR with decent optics, and have a plethora of ammo available for them. So what is stopping you from getting an M203 vice another AR? You know you can buy them title 1 without going thru a DD dealer, then get a barrel once the Form 1 clears, right? I have a personal goal of convincing 100 people to purchase an M203 this year. I don't have one for sale, I am not an FFL, but I really would like to see more people get into them. I think it would lower the cost of ammo and increase options across the board if manufacturers started selling many more M203s. Been looking at getting one for years. I don't want to F1 (would like it all original). Colt or LMT. What stopped me? The only dealer that agreed to F3/F4 one, but wanted a $500.00 transfer fee. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 3:09:46 PM EDT
[#15]
no matter how cool a gun is, sooner or later it's going to get boring unless you can do some target shooting with it
spending $5 a pop to lob chalk shells and flares doesn't sound that fun what would you even do with that 22 LR gizmo? I'll pass |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:14:09 PM EDT
[#16]
1) Very limited use. Chalk and flares are all u can shoot. I don't consider the 22 LE beehive thing a real use for it.
2) they are expensive and the ammo is pricey as well unless you reload yourself. 3) you have to have somewhere to shoot it, preferable several acres of personal land. I don't know of any outdoor ranges within 100 miles of me that would let me shoot one. The only things that at all interests me is I saw a YouTube of someone making homemade bird bombs. That seemed kind of cool and atleast gives your a report. But that still only resolves issue one from above, still have to deal with 2 and 3 I would rather save up for a 50 cal or 20mm Anzio. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 11:38:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no matter how cool a gun is, sooner or later it's going to get boring unless you can do some target shooting with it
spending $5 a pop to lob chalk shells and flares doesn't sound that fun what would you even do with that 22 LR gizmo? I'll pass Target shooting chalk rounds could be fun, particularly on an unknown distance range. I'd like to see what a buckshot round would do on a turkey. And the multiple .22" beehive w/ shot rounds would be murder on snakes. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 10:11:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Target shooting chalk rounds could be fun, particularly on an unknown distance range. I'd like to see what a buckshot round would do on a turkey. And the multiple .22" beehive w/ shot rounds would be murder on snakes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: no matter how cool a gun is, sooner or later it's going to get boring unless you can do some target shooting with it
spending $5 a pop to lob chalk shells and flares doesn't sound that fun what would you even do with that 22 LR gizmo? I'll pass Target shooting chalk rounds could be fun, particularly on an unknown distance range. I'd like to see what a buckshot round would do on a turkey. And the multiple .22" beehive w/ shot rounds would be murder on snakes. I think the big barrier for a lot of folks is that while they have potentially fun and or interesting use cases....its not $2000 plus a 6 month NFA wait fun or interesting value prop. If somebody gave me one free and all I had to do was pay the NFA tax, than sure. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Target shooting chalk rounds could be fun, particularly on an unknown distance range. I'd like to see what a buckshot round would do on a turkey. And the multiple .22" beehive w/ shot rounds would be murder on snakes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: no matter how cool a gun is, sooner or later it's going to get boring unless you can do some target shooting with it
spending $5 a pop to lob chalk shells and flares doesn't sound that fun what would you even do with that 22 LR gizmo? I'll pass Target shooting chalk rounds could be fun, particularly on an unknown distance range. I'd like to see what a buckshot round would do on a turkey. And the multiple .22" beehive w/ shot rounds would be murder on snakes. Yup, that would be great. On the other hand I can put 2,000 rounds of speer lawman 9mm through my UZI for the same price as 100 chalk rounds. The other turn off is that the flares and chalk rounds give the whole affair an airsoft feel. Technically, a $80 H&R single shot shotgun is a more useful weapon. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 5:04:22 PM EDT
[#20]
I want one, I have a few acres that I can shoot it out to about 250yds. The problem is what others have stated, shooting chalk rounds will get old fast. For it to be real fun is for me to be able to shoot real HE rounds out of it. And even if possible to make them on a Form 1 it seems like it would be cost prohibitive.
 But it is a dream item, and maybe one day I'll get one.
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:50:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Somebody simply needs to make a 37mm "clone" m203. Not a spikes tactical or a 37mm launcher that hangs 5 inches lower than the barrel, but a true clone of the m203.
If this clone were ~300 bucks and 37mm chalk rounds were readily available and easy to find... then I would get a m203. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 7:04:27 PM EDT
[#22]
I'd bite if you could get the receiver at or under $500. So that with stamp + barrel and remaining parts to complete the build would just break $1K.
Anyone know what the .Mil pays per unit currently? |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 7:22:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd bite if you could get the receiver at or under $500. So that with stamp + barrel and remaining parts to complete the build would just break $1K. Anyone know what the .Mil pays per unit currently? It's the .mil. So likely $8995 for the LMT rail grabber. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 10:42:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the .mil. So likely $8995 for the LMT rail grabber. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd bite if you could get the receiver at or under $500. So that with stamp + barrel and remaining parts to complete the build would just break $1K. Anyone know what the .Mil pays per unit currently? It's the .mil. So likely $8995 for the LMT rail grabber. It is less than $2k per unit, at least as of 2014. They aren't cheap, but I honestly believe part of that is because they really don't need to be. Not many companies competing for that market. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 11:07:00 PM EDT
[#25]
NSN 1010-00-179-6447 M203 $593.00 as of late 2015 (same price since 1992).
NSN 1010-01-483-4576 M203 w/9inch barrel $890.00 as of 2011 (sole source LMT for this NSN) Source: http://www.dla.mil/HQ/InformationOperations/LogisticsInformationServices/FOIAReading.aspx (.MIL so your browser won't like it) I purchased mine from LMT in 2010 when the dealer cost was $995.00 (for either length, standard mount). At the time, they had held that same price for about 5 years. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#26]
I would buy one because I think they look cool, but I like having all of my fingers.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 11:33:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want one, I have a few acres that I can shoot it out to about 250yds. The problem is what others have stated, shooting chalk rounds will get old fast. For it to be real fun is for me to be able to shoot real HE rounds out of it. And even if possible to make them on a Form 1 it seems like it would be cost prohibitive. But it is a dream item, and maybe one day I'll get one.HE would be fun until you launched one and it didn’t go off. You would then need some sort of armored up backhoe and/or EOD suit to go downrange and start looking for it and then once you found it figure out some way to render it inert or dig a big-ass hole and bury it. For the recreational user I would think some type of limited explosive spotter round would be ideal. Something that is under the quarter ounce of explosive limit so they are not DD unto themselves and that is designed with either a rotational safety mech and/or tested not to breach the tube/action should it go off during launch so it doesn’t blow your face/hand off. Also if you have a dud it would be something that could be safely handled at shovel length as there is no shrapnel worry. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 2:23:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much to get into one now? If bought as Title 1, how much is the barrel to convert to NFA...or can the original barrel be modified instead? How much is ammo? and is it readily available? I don't have a DD...and it's the one thing in the back of my mind I'd like to do before 7/13. I was in the same boat for awhile there...but a dealer in my state offered a reasonable price on a new LMT m203 (9" rail mount version) so I pulled the trigger. Waiting on form 4 approval as we speak. I'm gonna put it on a customized Mega monolithic upper with a 11.5" DD CHF bbl. Should be fun. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 2:25:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had an LMT on a KAC stand alone mount. Had both type beehive rounds, a pile of reloading components, nose cones, driving bands, aluminum cases, baton rounds. Loaded my own chalk rounds. Frankly it was just meh. It had no real fun factor, no utilitarian use, even the beehive rounds were unimpressive. Sold it shortly after I acquired it. Frankly a SBS has more utility & fun factor. If you could purchase some reasonably priced safe pyrotechnic rounds for a M203, something that went bang, then they'd be more fun. to each their own I suppose. I've shot mil m203s enough to know I'll enjoy my civy one. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:51:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HE would be fun until you launched one and it didn’t go off. You would then need some sort of armored up backhoe and/or EOD suit to go downrange and start looking for it and then once you found it figure out some way to render it inert or dig a big-ass hole and bury it. For the recreational user I would think some type of limited explosive spotter round would be ideal. Something that is under the quarter ounce of explosive limit so they are not DD unto themselves and that is designed with either a rotational safety mech and/or tested not to breach the tube/action should it go off during launch so it doesn’t blow your face/hand off. Also if you have a dud it would be something that could be safely handled at shovel length as there is no shrapnel worry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I want one, I have a few acres that I can shoot it out to about 250yds. The problem is what others have stated, shooting chalk rounds will get old fast. For it to be real fun is for me to be able to shoot real HE rounds out of it. And even if possible to make them on a Form 1 it seems like it would be cost prohibitive. But it is a dream item, and maybe one day I'll get one.HE would be fun until you launched one and it didn’t go off. You would then need some sort of armored up backhoe and/or EOD suit to go downrange and start looking for it and then once you found it figure out some way to render it inert or dig a big-ass hole and bury it. For the recreational user I would think some type of limited explosive spotter round would be ideal. Something that is under the quarter ounce of explosive limit so they are not DD unto themselves and that is designed with either a rotational safety mech and/or tested not to breach the tube/action should it go off during launch so it doesn’t blow your face/hand off. Also if you have a dud it would be something that could be safely handled at shovel length as there is no shrapnel worry. lol True. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 3:01:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Somebody simply needs to make a 37mm "clone" m203. Not a spikes tactical or a 37mm launcher that hangs 5 inches lower than the barrel, but a true clone of the m203.
If this clone were ~300 bucks and 37mm chalk rounds were readily available and easy to find... then I would get a m203. The 37mm is smooth bore. Standard type chalk rounds won't be very accurate. I've wondered why someone doesn't make an 18" 40mm smoothbore. As it only would mount on a 26" long gun, it should be a Title 1 shotgun. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 9:37:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HE would be fun until you launched one and it didn’t go off. You would then need some sort of armored up backhoe and/or EOD suit to go downrange and start looking for it and then once you found it figure out some way to render it inert or dig a big-ass hole and bury it. For the recreational user I would think some type of limited explosive spotter round would be ideal. Something that is under the quarter ounce of explosive limit so they are not DD unto themselves and that is designed with either a rotational safety mech and/or tested not to breach the tube/action should it go off during launch so it doesn’t blow your face/hand off. Also if you have a dud it would be something that could be safely handled at shovel length as there is no shrapnel worry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I want one, I have a few acres that I can shoot it out to about 250yds. The problem is what others have stated, shooting chalk rounds will get old fast. For it to be real fun is for me to be able to shoot real HE rounds out of it. And even if possible to make them on a Form 1 it seems like it would be cost prohibitive. But it is a dream item, and maybe one day I'll get one.HE would be fun until you launched one and it didn’t go off. You would then need some sort of armored up backhoe and/or EOD suit to go downrange and start looking for it and then once you found it figure out some way to render it inert or dig a big-ass hole and bury it. For the recreational user I would think some type of limited explosive spotter round would be ideal. Something that is under the quarter ounce of explosive limit so they are not DD unto themselves and that is designed with either a rotational safety mech and/or tested not to breach the tube/action should it go off during launch so it doesn’t blow your face/hand off. Also if you have a dud it would be something that could be safely handled at shovel length as there is no shrapnel worry. Just fire more 40mm HE at the dud round until its no longer an issue.... |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 7:28:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Exactly what I was thinking, lol
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/30/2016 2:33:47 PM EDT
[#34]
My next NFA Item, really just want to make sure chalk rounds are legal here in CO, but these beehive rounds are neat
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Posted: 5/4/2016 2:58:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My next NFA Item, really just want to make sure chalk rounds are legal here in CO, but these beehive rounds are neat Legal - Yes, but in most parts of the state there may be special storage requirements/permits just because it fits a DD. This was an issue they tried to tag me on... until I pulled out my Colorado Bureau of Mines Explosives magazine storage certification. ( I bought it as surplus junk to store massive amounts of loose reloaded ammo in a container that thieves couldn't break into or steal without a forklift.) Do your homework for the area you live in. Maybe even retain a GOOD lawyer to double check your research. Trust me, its cheaper before hand vrs once you are facing actual charges and have to prove to a ADA that they have no case. Also - any time you obtain ammo, retain and make copies of all receipts as LE will often want to audit what you have if they see you on a range. There is a lot of theft in the .mil and you really don't want to be found in possession of stolen .mil property. If you have the receipts from legit sources the questions stop and your good to go. Keep the copy of current receipts with a copy of your DD stamp and have that in the gun case of the DD. Consider it your get out of jail free card kit. Many LE will want to arrest and let a ADA sort it out - again having all your paperwork ready can prevent such. Not legal advice - but advice to seek professional legal advice, with perhaps a few topics to discus. |
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