Friend died....disposition of his NFA stuff

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Friend died....disposition of his NFA stuff

Posted: 11/23/2015 7:21:45 PM EDT

My friend a fellow arfcom member, Woden, died today. His mom wants me to come get his guns. The title 1 guns are no issue in VA.He does have an AR SBR, an AAC Silencer and a Thompson SBR.

How do I handle the Title II stuff? He told me he wanted me to have them but I dont know how to handle the transfer. No will, maybe a trust I cant remember.

Posted: 11/23/2015 7:40:10 PM EDT

[#1]

With no will, the estate will go through probate and the heirs will be determined and the items transferred on a Form 5. If the NFA items are in a trust, the named beneficiaries will receive them on a Form 5.

Posted: 11/23/2015 7:46:55 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
With no will, the estate will go through probate and the heirs will be determined and the items transferred on a Form 5. If the NFA items are in a trust, the named beneficiaries will receive them on a Form 5.

View Quote

I got it but not sure how I handle his mom wanting me to get the guns out of her house. He has no real estate other than a few belongings and maybe a half dozen guns and the NFA stuff described above. Im going to be honest, I personally dont want the NFA stuff. The title 1 stuff I would take because he wanted me to have it.

Im pretty upset and not really wanting to think about it righ now but she expects me to come there next week. I need a plan.

Posted: 11/23/2015 8:04:42 PM EDT

[#3]

Why do you not want the NFA stuff? Free NFA stuff!!!!

Posted: 11/23/2015 8:16:35 PM EDT

[#4]

I'm no way qualified to,give advice on it, but if you know 100% he wanted you to have it, it's probably on the trust. You could take the items, DONT use them, and keep them in a safe until it's sorted out.

That is if there are no siblings that want to try and take all his stuff.

You could even call your local sheriff to ask about it before you pick them up. it's not like it's a brick of cocaine.

Posted: 11/23/2015 8:25:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Have the mother write out a letter designating you as the executor of the NFA guns (and only the guns) pending probate and final disposition. Have her provide an inventory in the document. Just keep them safe in the mean time. It is not terribly out of sorts with no will, mother would be heir or executor most likely. If the court finds that you should be the new owner, fill out form 5 for the NFA items when the time comes.

Just my opinion.

Posted: 11/23/2015 8:36:30 PM EDT

[#6]

Sorry for the loss of your friend.

Posted: 11/23/2015 8:43:30 PM EDT

[#7]

You're not going to get real legal advice on an Internet forum. Especially not the kind that will keep you out jail.

The Form 5 is correct once the will and trust are executed.

Contact Joshua Prince, he has some legal conglomerate with lawyers across the US that specialize in firearms law. He can probably point you to someone in Virginia.

Sorry for your loss and good luck.

Posted: 11/23/2015 9:18:49 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
With no will, the estate will go through probate and the heirs will be determined and the items transferred on a Form 5. If the NFA items are in a trust, the named beneficiaries will receive them on a Form 5.

View Quote

Sorry for your loss . AlabamaPaul are you talking trust like a will or NFA trust ?

Posted: 11/23/2015 9:23:46 PM EDT

[#9]

Im pretty sure the AR SBR and silencer are in a trust. I was the SOT. I cant be sure about the Thompson SBR.

Posted: 11/23/2015 10:17:23 PM EDT

[#10]

I see you are in Virginia. Contact John Pierce and see what he can suggest.

He is a NFA lawyer here in Virginia, and knows his stuff. (and if you want a trust, he does it for a $100 flat fee)

http://johnpierceesq.com/

Hope this helps,
Bob S.

Posted: 11/23/2015 10:22:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Sorry for your loss.

I would reach out to dbrowne1. He helped me set up my trust and is an attorney who specializes in NFA trusts.

Posted: 11/24/2015 9:18:17 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sorry for your loss . AlabamaPaul are you talking trust like a will or NFA trust ?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

With no will, the estate will go through probate and the heirs will be determined and the items transferred on a Form 5. If the NFA items are in a trust, the named beneficiaries will receive them on a Form 5.

Sorry for your loss . AlabamaPaul are you talking trust like a will or NFA trust ?

Any type of property trust, but an NFA trust would be the best.

Posted: 11/24/2015 10:39:45 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why do you not want the NFA stuff? Free NFA stuff!!!!

View Quote

Free? He just lost his best friend. Don't be tactless.

Posted: 11/24/2015 10:53:52 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

Why do you not want the NFA stuff? Free NFA stuff!!!!

View Quote

Posted: 11/24/2015 11:13:46 AM EDT

[#15]

If there is no Will then your friend was intestate and Virginia's secession laws will apply. If he owned them as an individual, since you would not be an heir, and if none of the legal heirs want the Title II firearms, then they would pass to you from the estate on a Form 4. If any of the heirs want them they would go on a Form 5. If the firearms were owned by a trust then they go to the beneficiary.

In the meantime the administrator (which will probably end up being your friend's wife) can legally hold the firearms. If she doesn't want them in the house then they can go to any FFL for cleaning/repair/appraisal until the approved Form 4 comes back to you. She would need to file as the transferor (estate of...) and include a death certificate. Anything individually owned would need to be appraised for the estate's accounting anyway.

Since your friend only passed away yesterday there won't have been time yet to open probate even if there is a Will. Until then all of the property really should remain at the deceased's home, unless his wife has reason to think valuables might start disappearing.

Posted: 11/24/2015 12:27:38 PM EDT

[#16]

No clue about the legal stuff but sorry your friend passed.

Posted: 11/24/2015 7:23:08 PM EDT

[#17]

If you dont want the NFA stuff dont bother and she can contact a gun shop to work out the paperwork and the sale.

Personally if its free guns, i would take them, even if it means dealing with the NFA hassle.

Posted: 11/24/2015 9:19:46 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
If there is no Will then your friend was intestate and Virginia's secession laws will apply. If he owned them as an individual, since you would not be an heir, and if none of the legal heirs want the Title II firearms, then they would pass to you from the estate on a Form 4. If any of the heirs want them they would go on a Form 5. If the firearms were owned by a trust then they go to the beneficiary.

In the meantime the administrator (which will probably end up being your friend's wife) can legally hold the firearms. If she doesn't want them in the house then they can go to any FFL for cleaning/repair/appraisal until the approved Form 4 comes back to you. She would need to file as the transferor (estate of...) and include a death certificate. Anything individually owned would need to be appraised for the estate's accounting anyway.

Since your friend only passed away yesterday there won't have been time yet to open probate even if there is a Will. Until then all of the property really should remain at the deceased's home, unless his wife has reason to think valuables might start disappearing.

View Quote

Thanks Bubbles. He doesnt have a wife or any siblings. He lived with his mom. I talked to her tonight and Im going to help her find the Trust. If I remember correctly, I am the beneficiary. His mom wants to sell the title 1 guns. He has one I built for him and will offer to buy it from her as it has huge sentimental value for me.

Posted: 11/25/2015 1:13:55 AM EDT

[#19]

If he managed to do the registration back when ATF was accepting Form 1's and Form 4's in eForms, there may be a soft copy on his computer.

Posted: 11/25/2015 12:01:25 PM EDT

[#20]

If you are the listed beneficiary and he said he wanted you to have them, then honor his wishes and have the guns transferred to you.

Posted: 11/25/2015 4:34:36 PM EDT

[#21]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Did you close your shop? Came out there a few times when I was living there.
Still talk to Mayfield?

Posted: 11/25/2015 4:46:21 PM EDT

[#22]

Have the mother write out a letter designating you as the executor of the NFA guns (and only the guns) pending probate and final disposition. Have her provide an inventory in the document. Just keep them safe in the mean time. It is not terribly out of sorts with no will, mother would be heir or executor most likely. If the court finds that you should be the new owner, fill out form 5 for the NFA items when the time comes.

View Quote

It doesn't work that way. A Form 5 tax-free transfer applies to the beneficiary named in the will or trust, or the inheritor by operation of law (next of kin) if there is no will or trust. Until this is sorted out, the executor of the will (or the administrator if there is no will) takes possession. The mother doesn't have the authority to designate anyone as an "executor." Only the deceased could do that. If he didn't, then it's up to the probate court. If the OP doesn't qualify as a named beneficiary or inheritor, then we're talking about a tax-paid transfer on Form 4.

Best thing to do would be to consult a lawyer knowledgeable about NFA matters. Try to impress on the mother that this is serious business. You can't just play fast and loose with the NFA.