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Posted: 3/24/2015 10:52:28 AM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/356996__ARCHIVED_THREAD____What_s_the_lowest_cost_way_to_get_an_M16_.html&page=1

I was googling NFA prices and found this thread.

Makes one wonder why were we not all maxing out or CCs and buying everything in sight.

Also ... where will we be three years from now?

TRG
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 11:33:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/356996__ARCHIVED_THREAD____What_s_the_lowest_cost_way_to_get_an_M16_.html&page=1

I was googling NFA prices and found this thread.

Makes one wonder why were we not all maxing out or CCs and buying everything in sight.

Also ... where will we be three years from now?

TRG
View Quote


Hindsite is always 20/20.  Unfortunately my crystal ball is cloudy and I have no idea what the future will hold.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 11:36:20 AM EDT
[#2]
My father told me about being able to buy them all day long for $1,500.00 back in the day.  I can remember as a kid, you could get a NIB M-60 for around 5k.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 11:43:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My father told me about being able to buy them all day long for $1,500.00 back in the day.  I can remember as a kid, you could get a NIB M-60 for around 5k.
View Quote


Are you just trying to get me depressed?

That just seems like a dream. Even if I had the money nowadays, I have too many other items I want or my goal of getting to climb Everest. Darn recession......
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 12:01:01 PM EDT
[#4]
My uncle was an SOT from the 80s to 2005 and ....boy was NFA prices interesting..

m16's were like 1500-2000 easily...


clones were cheaper.

I got my OLY SGW RR for about 1800 in 1995 or so...it was that or a world trip....or just a visit to Europe.

Link Posted: 3/24/2015 12:13:13 PM EDT
[#5]
While I have always wanted an M16 $9K back then was still too much for me to justify today at that price.

I can buy a LOT of ammo and other firearms for that much and get just as much enjoyment out of them.  I don't know how many times I hear people say they shot their M16 once or twice and put it in the safe or safe deposit box.

The reality is that buying the gun even at $20K is the cheap part as ammo is too expensive to just go shoot up 500rds or more every week for most people.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 12:27:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
While I have always wanted an M16 $9K back then was still too much for me to justify today at that price.

I can buy a LOT of ammo and other firearms for that much and get just as much enjoyment out of them.  I don't know how many times I hear people say they shot their M16 once or twice and put it in the safe or safe deposit box.

The reality is that buying the gun even at $20K is the cheap part as ammo is too expensive to just go shoot up 500rds or more every week for most people.
View Quote



Yeah, South African surplus was like candy.  You brought an extra couple battle packs for the others to shoot.

Now ... ?

Hard to drag something out of the safe when it is in the high 5 digits ... just to go blast ammo at 30 cents, or more, per round.

TRG

Link Posted: 3/24/2015 1:04:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Yep, $10-12k for a conversion, $14-16k for a M16A1 and $18-20k for a M16A2

Basically prices have doubled in the last decade. Will be fun to watch the prices as we go forward. Will they peak? double again in 10 years or increase exponentially with increase use of trusts, baby boomers cashing in their 401ks and a increasing population and decreasing supply of MGs.

Only time will tell.

Quoted:
Quoted:
While I have always wanted an M16 $9K back then was still too much for me to justify today at that price.

I can buy a LOT of ammo and other firearms for that much and get just as much enjoyment out of them.  I don't know how many times I hear people say they shot their M16 once or twice and put it in the safe or safe deposit box.

The reality is that buying the gun even at $20K is the cheap part as ammo is too expensive to just go shoot up 500rds or more every week for most people.
View Quote



Yeah, South African surplus was like candy.  You brought an extra couple battle packs for the others to shoot.

Now ... ?

Hard to drag something out of the safe when it is in the high 5 digits ... just to go blast ammo at 30 cents, or more, per round.

TRG

View Quote


I only let people shoot if they provide their own ammo. Getting sick of loading up a 30rd mag and watching some random stranger at the range burn through it in 2 secs and just say "thanks" and walk away....yeah sure NP, how about you pay me $10 because thats how much ammo you just shot through.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 1:14:33 PM EDT
[#8]
It certainly isn't a poor man's hobby.  Though for some of these guys the ammo is peanuts.  Kind of like airplanes and gas.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 1:43:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Makes one wonder why were we not all maxing out or CCs and buying everything in sight.

Also ... where will we be three years from now?
View Quote


I imagine prices only going up. Max out your lines of credit now.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 1:48:52 PM EDT
[#10]
People have posted pics before of ads from Shotgun News from the early 1980s - Colt M16s for $600.

Link Posted: 3/24/2015 2:04:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yep, $10-12k for a conversion, $14-16k for a M16A1 and $18-20k for a M16A2

Basically prices have doubled in the last decade. Will be fun to watch the prices as we go forward. Will they peak? double again in 10 years or increase exponentially with increase use of trusts, baby boomers cashing in their 401ks and a increasing population and decreasing supply of MGs.

View Quote


Colt M16A2s are now at 40,000

That's 3 years, not a decade ... to double.

TRG
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 2:27:35 PM EDT
[#12]
10 years ago my buddy dropped 10k on a Colt M4. Have no idea what they run now.
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 10:59:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 years ago my buddy dropped 10k on a Colt M4. Have no idea what they run now.
View Quote



35-40k, from what I;ve seen posted.

TRG
Link Posted: 3/24/2015 11:31:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



35-40k, from what I;ve seen posted.

TRG
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 years ago my buddy dropped 10k on a Colt M4. Have no idea what they run now.



35-40k, from what I;ve seen posted.

TRG

Fuck...

Kicker is his dad fronted the money as a gift...

$35k profits.

It's fun to shoot, got a can, SBR'ed it... Man...
Link Posted: 3/25/2015 7:14:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Colt M16A2s are now at 40,000

That's 3 years, not a decade ... to double.

TRG
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, $10-12k for a conversion, $14-16k for a M16A1 and $18-20k for a M16A2

Basically prices have doubled in the last decade. Will be fun to watch the prices as we go forward. Will they peak? double again in 10 years or increase exponentially with increase use of trusts, baby boomers cashing in their 401ks and a increasing population and decreasing supply of MGs.



Colt M16A2s are now at 40,000

That's 3 years, not a decade ... to double.

TRG


http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/us_mg_5.html

Oh well I was thinking current prices on a m16a2 are more like $30k not $40k and prices back in 2005 were around $15k, so double in like 10 years +/-, either way still a crazy profit assuming you fine shoot that value worth of ammo haha
Link Posted: 3/25/2015 5:03:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 3/25/2015 6:37:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Bought my HK94 for $650 in 1982 NIB. Was about to send it off to have it converted to a MP5SD but spent the $2000 dollars on a boat instead. Probably be worth a little north of the $2650 investment today
Link Posted: 3/26/2015 10:00:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bought my HK94 for $650 in 1982 NIB. Was about to send it off to have it converted to a MP5SD but spent the $2000 dollars on a boat instead. Probably be worth a little north of the $2650 investment today
View Quote


Probably very close to 10x that amount. A 1000% ROI in 23 years hmm I like those numbers.
Link Posted: 3/26/2015 6:17:07 PM EDT
[#19]
I remember back in the 70s, looking into buying a WW2 restored halftrack. They were $7500, with an additional $3k if you wanted the .50 cal on it.

Still kicking myself for that one.

Az
Link Posted: 3/26/2015 7:32:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I remember back in the 70s, looking into buying a WW2 restored halftrack. They were $7500, with an additional $3k if you wanted the .50 cal on it.

Still kicking myself for that one.

Az
View Quote


It's a shame our give doesn't sell surplus mil gear anymore. I would love to pick up some Cold War heavy armored vehicles
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 1:03:44 AM EDT
[#21]
I frequently curse my old man for saying "I don't want to do the paperwork" when I would point at the sub $1K M-16's or conversions on the rack at the local gun shop pre 1986.  If he had gotten one then I would have one now, but alas I will not likely ever put up that much cash for one now.
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 2:43:38 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm glad in the last 10 years I've been issued a Bushmaster with 3-round burst and a FA Colt Commando... after a couple range trips, the excitement is/was gone... plus the fact the ammo stash is severely reduced.  No way I'd pay what's asked for the FA stuff today other than if I were trying to buy/sell as an investment... had I, I can see now I'd have buyers remorse after the fact.


Link Posted: 3/28/2015 9:37:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 9:58:35 PM EDT
[#24]
At just a modest 6% annual inflation rate ... an 18,000.00 M16 conversion will be worth over 30k in 10 years.  Colt's will be pushing 70k, easily.

With the fact that RRs doubled in value from less than 3-4 years ago, it is easy to see that Tony_k is probably right.

An MG is likely to have the value of a modest home in a decade or so.

I've never sold an MG, but, at the 'above 10k' level, and the IRS requiring a report on the transaction, how much does the tax on the sale also move the needle up?

TRG
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 10:18:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 10:38:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 8:46:46 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't see the current status quo lasting another 20 years.  Depending on which way the political winds blow,  Either MGs will be nontransferable/banned or the registry will be open.
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 11:54:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 3/30/2015 10:31:35 AM EDT
[#29]
When I bought my conversion in 2004 as part of a re-finance on my house (divorce) I was 'chasing' the price of MGs.  They had been 2500-3500 circa 2001 when I first learned of M16s and their legality for ownership.

By 2004 they had more than doubled and were pushing 10k.  I thought I did very well (and I did) on mine for 8500.  But, compared to just 3 years prior ... dayumn.

MGs languished from 2004-2010. There was not much change in value.  Maybe an increase of 15-20% but they were no longer 'doubling every few years' as they had been between 1998-2004.

I was surprised when the prices seemed to jump overnight.  They have jumped again.  

I think we could be seeing a combination of factors pushing the price up.  And this jump, imho, is being held DOWN by the poor economy.

12k in 2004 dollars vs 12k in 2015 dollars is part of the issue.  Inflation, no matter the Government's position has been 6-8% at a minimum.  Food, fuel, energy, transportation costs for all product have at least doubled since 2004, and in most cases tripled.

If ... IF ... this economy ever gets back to slower inflation and real growth you could see MG prices double, or even triple in less than 5 years.

TRG
Link Posted: 3/30/2015 8:32:27 PM EDT
[#30]
I would absolutely put savings toward land over an MG if one didn't already possess acreage to shoot on. It has benefits and enjoyability beyond just shooting of course. After that, I'd put money toward being an 07/02 before buying a transferable mg in the $20k+ range. That's just me though. I know of people that paid out the azz for MGs but don't have enough land to shoot on, have no nearby clubs/ranges that allow full-auto.... So basically its nothing but a status symbol but for a weekend or two that they drive really far to somewhere they can enjoy their purchase. I look at them the same way as the family that extends themselves for a huge house and can't hardly afford to furnish it. Even then, house poor > MG poor.
Link Posted: 3/31/2015 9:02:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would absolutely put savings toward land over an MG if one didn't already possess acreage to shoot on. It has benefits and enjoyability beyond just shooting of course. After that, I'd put money toward being an 07/02 before buying a transferable mg in the $20k+ range. That's just me though. I know of people that paid out the azz for MGs but don't have enough land to shoot on, have no nearby clubs/ranges that allow full-auto.... So basically its nothing but a status symbol but for a weekend or two that they drive really far to somewhere they can enjoy their purchase. I look at them the same way as the family that extends themselves for a huge house and can't hardly afford to furnish it. Even then, house poor > MG poor.
View Quote


Land has taxes and if you find A plot big enough to shoot on and far enough from the city to be affordable it prob has little resale value. Or if you're like me i live in the city and the nearest land that I could make a small range on is in 0.5-1 hr drive and would cost nearly $10-20k an acre, could easily be spending $100k to make a small shooting range. Land that is sub $10k per acre is well over and hour drive.

I would rather buy a transferable MG and shoot at a Indoor range 15 min away and a few times a year visit friends and family to shoot In the country, which you will be getting constant requests once your buddies know you have a MG. you get to have the fun yet don't have to deal with property taxes, maintenance of the property, etc...
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