Got me thinking...

I am going to keep the NFA branch phone number, my ICN #, Permit # and ID# written on one of my efile copies of my form 1 in case I get a LE who questions it being authentic.

I'll just tell him/her they can call this number, give them the following information and they can verify it.

Perhaps being a little to cautious, but better to have to much information than less...

I don't see any reason for that. I never carry my originals around, only copies.  An efile form will look the same.

Frank

Not positive but I do not think Joe Blow LEO can request a records search on Firearms ownership within the NFA because they feel like it. Pretty sure NFA request needs to go through an Agent. Said Agent might need to have RAS or PC before hand or meet some internal check and balance... Besides.... if you have a trust in a name that does not have your name within it. Your tax stamp would have nothing written on it that would help LE. other than you holding a piece of paper with serial number matching a Firearm or Silencer and a TAX Paid mark.
It is a Tax Stamp not permision. It shows you registered and paid a Tax on an item.

If some busybody jerkwad LEO or other person wants to run it up the Flag Pole let them do the work. You are not required to have story time with them. If the fact that you produced a valid Tax Stamp is not good enough for them, then Fuck Em... they had a hard on for you to begin with and were going to make your life difficult any way. Dont help them.

It would if you're the one who submitted the EForm. It would have DIGITALLY SIGNED in box 7, but your actual name in box 8.

That's the whole point. I don't want to go through the hassle of being arrested, processed, weapon taken, etc, etc... You heard the saying "You might be the wrap, but not the ride"? I want to avoid the ride anyway I can, so I want as much ammo (so to speak) to show I'm a legit owner.

I'll have a copy of the form 1 with nothing on it, just if questioned if it's real (I know maybe 1% chance) I can have right there all the info needed to prove it.

They are not going to use a number that you provide to verify anything.

I have had the Arkansas State Police show up once when folks reported a "war" going on in the woods (it was just a bunch of us shooting mg's). They looked at all the paperwork (real form 4's), but still called in the serial numbers and ATF verified they were legit.

Ok, interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

Good on you for not listening to the idiots that perk about on here..."You don't need to show them shit!" Ya, real frickin smart. I would arrest you(not you, you are smart), which would be a felony so you would spend the night or a long weekend if Karma really dosent like you. You would then go in front of a judge where you would not be able to show any paperwork yet because: A- the officer didn't collect it or B- the officer did collect it, but it has net yet made it way through the departments evidence process yet. Oh, someone will bring a copy up for you.....NOPE. Doesn't work that way. He will then set you a bond, hopefully, which you will pay to get out, let's just sat $5,000 because most people here talk like they have priors.

Then a new court date is set and you have to pay an attorney and hopefully you are allowed to get the mess cleared up before the court date. Then you wait a few months to get your money, not even all of it, and your gun back with the addition of any scratches that may have happened in the process which they are NOT liable for.

But hey you got the charges dropped and hopefully didn't lose your job for your night or two in jail and lost some cash to an  attorney.

Morons. Show me your Damn-looks papers and I can go "Catch the real criminals."

Smart on you though OP and thank you for not being a tard.

Hahaha well said!!  In my state it's an affirmative defense to prosecution that you show that the NFA item is registered with the ATF. State law basically mirrors federal law, so the argument "you only gotta show an ATF agent yer papers," will land a person in jail.  

That said, I've never checked anyone's papers when I've ran across SBR's, suppressors and MG's.  I'll just assume they are legal until proven otherwise

And trust me, I've had people ask if I wanted to see their paperwork. Typical response is, "Why, I trust they are legal."

And people wonder why there are other people who are sour towards police officers...

Thanks but thats the way it should be all the time.  By the way are you required to carry the stamp around?

I 100% agree. should be

The law in Texas states in so many words a legally registered SBR with documentation is a "defense to prosecution" That tells me right there a member of LE can arrest your ass for a SBR even WITH your form 1!! Legally! So I am going to be as cooperative as hell!!

But what possibly good could come out of taking a chance? Whats the harm in showing your paper work to prove your legal?? Not just to LE, but even to a range master? Who cares who see's your approved form 1? The only thing I wouldn't do is post a copy on the internet because it has my address.

Being uncooperative with LE is 10 times out of 10 a bad move in my book. Especially with something like this.

I guess if your a dick and tell some LE to get bend when asked for your proof and the 0.1% chance the LE agent walks away with their tail between their legs you can come on ARF and brag about... That's the ONLY thing you have to gain, you have MUCH more to lose.

I am not sure why this would make anyone sour toward LE? I guess I could have left the whole dont act like a tard thing out of it, but other than that what I posted is exactly how it will go. I am not trying to be a dick. I would estimate with my 10 years experience, maybe 7-10% of officers understand the NFA paperwork. maybe 25-30% have ever even seen a form and 15-20% even know that the average citizens can legally own SBR's, cans, and full autos.

I am not being a dick I am merely trying to keep people from an unnecessary headache because they heard from some guy on arfcom that he didn't have to show anything and can tell officers to pound sand.

Personally I am with the other officer on here. I have come across numerous NFA items and only requested papers once for a full auto. And it went smooth and I stayed and did a little target practice with them at their request, well, more of a challenge really.....I won.

Because you would arrest someone for not showing you papers they aren't required to have on them anyway? And were doing it to spite the person? And would be acting like a dick cop on a power trip? Yeah, I'm not sure either.

In Colorado the NFA stamp is an Affirmative Defense. Meaning if you produce the paperwork at arraignment you walk on the spot with orders to return any property.

While people have been arrested and hauled into court who produced paperwork on the spot - I have heard that a judge once threatened an officer with a week in the slammer (contempt) for knowingly wasting the courts time with an unprosecutable case.

It is obvious where you stand with law enforcement as you just continue to argue and miss the entire point of my posting. Did you read my post? Both of them? At no point did I say that I would arrest someone just because. I gave a hypothetical scenario of what could happen. I even stated in the second one why I believed it could easily happen just to clarify. And yes I have asked for papers 3 times. Once for the machine gun, once for a sawed off shotgun after he pushed it against someones head, and again after a drive by shooting. A lot of things we do are circumstantial and so is this. At a gun range I am not going to question anyone, because more than likely they are legit. Someone driving around with drugs in their car and a short barreled anything under the seat is definitely going to be asked.

Stop being argumentative and take my post for what it was. Informative. The man asked a question. I gave him a very reasonable answer as to why he should carry it and show it if asked. Chances of being asked are probably 1 in a thousand, but the chance is there.


Edit: Haha....oops. Just reread my first post and In my head I knew what I meant, but on screen now that I reread it it definitely sounds like "I would arrest you", but I was trying to make a hypothetical scenario and playing it as the uninformed popo.

To elaborate further on this. I am clearly pro-gun since I am a member of this sight. I don't believe SBR's and cans should be an NFA items. When I catch a thug out with such items you are damn right I tack on the extra charge because if you know how the law works you know the will drop 12 charges if they plead guilty to criminal mischief.

Well see, that's a little different

Don't forget, while your locked up, your shit is in a evidence locker where its subject to mishandling and loss.

They can "request" anything they want.You can choose to provide it or not. Of course, many states have STATE laws which say something along the lines of "It shall be unlawful to possess any silencer, short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, or machinegun, but this section shall not apply to any person who has properly registered such firearm pursuant to federal law."

Your day might be a lot easier if you show it to the local cop, at least in those states.

The one time I got questioned about shooting machine guns, I gladly show the Deputy my papers. He had no clue what he was looking at.

In NC, they're actually in the statutes as Weapons of Mass Death and Destruction.

Glad I goto a private lease and don't have to deal with any of this. 90% of the people that goto the private lease have NFA items

I realize that you later explained that the intent of your post was not what was floating around in your head as you typed it.  Please understand that when I use the word "you" in this post, that I am using it in the third person, and am not directing comments at Miller92063 as a means of stating that the example I use is representative of his beliefs.

That being said, I too am a LEO, and I have to say that it is my opinion that an officer who acts in a manner as had been originally described is disgraceful.  If the law does not require a person to carry or show their tax form, then an officer who uses arrest as a means to punish those who do no submit to their will is abusing the power that has been bestowed upon them.  I am not REQUIRED to arrest for any offense, other than Violation of Protective Orders or Magistrate's Order (TX CCP 14.03 Arrest without Warrant, which refers to TX PC §25.07 and §38.112).  Any other time I MAY arrest, even for murder TBH.  

Our job is to enforce the law, not punish offenders.  If someone pisses you off because they will not "show you their papers," then it would be unethical to arrest them so that they can experience "the ride."  An alternative would be to just leave them be and complete an offense report (which would have to be completed an arrest had been made for the alleged offense anyway). The matter could then be settled without someone having to go to jail.  Let the detectives/ATF investigate, and they can clear the case without wasting the time of the law abiding citizen, the jailers, the courts.  The officer would also be saving themselves the time of having to arrest the citizen, take them to the jail, complete the arrest report, tag in  the rifle... need I continue at the waste of tax payer money while some dick cop on a power trip teaches "these serfs" a lesson about not submitting to the will of the police.

To elaborate, I am a patrol officer who believes that the practice of the states and US Govt. restricting any arms (with obvious exception of NBC weapons) is unconstitutional.  I do not believe that convicted felons should have their Right to Keep and Bear Arms revoked.  The Second Amendment has no clauses that allow for ANY removal of these rights.  I do not believe that suppressors, MG, SBR, SBS, DD, AOW, mortars, tanks, A-10's with GAU-8 Avengers and Hellfire missiles, B52's with conventional air launched cruise missiles (ALCM's), etc. should be restricted, and that the restriction of these weapons violates the Second Amendment.  I believe that the intent of the Founding Fathers was that if you can afford to buy it and feed it ammo then you can have it.  What is the basis of this belief?  Well, our original navy during the revolutionary war was outfitted with privately owned ships and cannons.  The Founding Fathers had privately owned cruisers and battleships.   Rights are not bestowed by governments, they are, as the Declaration of Independence mentions, Unalienable, and that we have been endowed with these rights by our Creator.

Now, don't get me wrong, I will arrest a person if I have probable cause to believe that they have committed an offense, but I will not arrest them just to prove a point, or to show them what happens if they do not bend to my will.

Back on topic, I can completely understand the sentiment expressed by Apierce918 when they said "And people wonder why there are other people who are sour towards police officers."

Well said. Wanna come work for us? I was trying to portray the dick or uninformed cop and explain that it would be better just to show the papers to them. It's a small percent that would do that, but I was just trying to show that it will only make things worse to tell them no. Show it to them and then contact the department and let them know about the situation and ask the officers be redirected. I one hundred percent stand behind my comments that you should carry yours papers and show them if asked. I do because I know some of the cops around here aren't the brightest and would probably arrest me for possessing a SBR.

This!

Just show your paper work!

Honestly, what are some people so concerned about? There might not be a "law" but so what?

Like those assholes that go through border check points on youtube and refuse to show there ID "because they can"... I don't get it, what do you have to gain from being uncooperative?

The old movie "Unlawful Entry" comes to mind... Yeah, a bit extreme, but there are some jacked up cop's out there that can fuck with your life.

I was stopped and checked with my paperwork while shooting out in the woods.

Sheriff deputy didn't know what to do about the paperwork. He called it in to verify if it wasn't stolen and then hands it back to me.

If you validate the officer's inappropriate behavior it will continue. If an officer is in the habit of arresting people for breaking laws that exist only in his mind, he needs to be retrained or fired.

Have fun sitting in jail.

Why argue it there? You wont win. Explain it to him by all means, but dont argue and if he still requests them...show them. Then contact the department and ask that the officers be advised of the proper process.

I won't. Because I don't have them with me.