So I have applied already for a suppressor.  Now I want to apply for an SBR.

My LGS already filled out a form 4 for me last month.  

My Schedule A and B are both blank as I have no assets in the trust... yet....

Is this ok?  I only have one beneficiary.

the assets only go into the trust after your get your stamp.  so if nothing is in trust yet its should be ok to submit form with nothing in it.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't know what your trust says.  Some people say a trust isn't official until it possesses something.  That is the reason alot of people will put a dollar into it.  They will just list the serial numbers of the dollar as the first item on the schedule A. It depends on your state laws and how your trust is written.  Hopefully, the ATF won't bounce your suppressor back because it doesn't have anything in the Schedule A.  Or you could just list a dollar and not worry about it.

They will kick back an unfunded trust

Ok thanks for the clarification.

My schedule page has a signature line for me as well as two witnesses.

Is this really needed on a schedule page?  This is separate from the body of the trust correct and does not need to be notorized?

I was worried when I sent off for my first suppressor a silencerco sparrow that my assignment of property page was blank when sent in.   It was approved.   I didnt add my sparrow until I had the stamp in my hand.  On my assignment page there is also a place for 2 witnesses to sign,  I just used 2 family members who were  NOT on the trust, and it did not have to be notarized, only signed and dated.  

I am not sure how your trust is written or setup so you may want to ask the person who set it up.   Called  silencershop about this and the person I talked with said he has always sent a blank page  when sending in and never added  the approved items when approved, he also stated it does NOT matter.   You would think with the volume of trusts silencershop deals with that they would seem to know what matters or not. I would think though it looks a lot better if there is at least something in there that is APPROVED when sending in for additional items.    Obviously you want to update your original copy with the approved items as you get them though.   I just got approved for a sbr and actually did send it in with the sparrow added. I also  just applied for 4 more suppressors and only the sparrow will show on the assigment page.  

Seems searching around its a ford/chevy debate  what needs to show on the schedule A or assigment page when submitting. The majority though seem to say have at least one item listed UNLESS it is your first time submitting because technically your trust does not own the item yet.  YMMV and  this is only my findings and what has worked so far for me.  

Just write in what NFA/NON-NFA item you're buying and write (PENDING) next to it.

Only the government could make what should be a simple process and application turn into a fustercluck.

I'm not sure what the "legal" answer is, but I can tell you for 100% that my first can and schedule item WAS approved with a blank schedule.

Send it blank. DO NOT EVER list your NFA items on your schedule A or B.

Not necessarily.

Why?

My lawyer who created my trust told me to specifically put the rifle I was making a SBR on schedule A when I submit my form 1.

Put a dollar bill in.

Btw, I didn't have anything in my trust when I submitted my form 1 so I didn't submit as schedule A (as it was empty)
My form 1 got bounced back, I had to resubmit it with the SBR I was making on it.
Then it got approved.

On your schedule A just put $10 so it is funded.

Where did you hear this?  I only ask because my attorney that drew up my trust specifically said to list the firearms on my schedule A.

Lots of different responses.

I decided to send both the A and B schedules blank as the trust sent in for my can two months ago is also blank.

So now im waiting on two stamps.... luckily my eform 1 shouldn't take 5 months like a paper file 4.

My attorney who specializes in NFA trusts gave me specific directions to submit NOTHING more than the trust document itself and any amendments and it doesn't include a Schedule "A". There is a separate acknowledgment of initial contribution which is signed and notarized with a $1 bill stapled to it but it isn't a part of the signed, witnessed and notarized trust document itself. Obviously if ATF kicks it back I'll know if what I submitted was insufficient.

Are the schedule A and B actually PART of the trust? Are they numbered pages within the trust?

If so, send them in. You can usually "fund" a trust by listing an item as an amount of US currency. For example, mine says:

Item #1: $10

When you get NFA items approved, list them in the schedule on the ORIGINAL trust. But when you send in future applications, you DO NOT have to include an "updated" schedule. You can continue to send the original copy that only showed the the money.

Depends - some states require the trust to be funded by something before it's legal. Texas is one of those states - IDK about Ohio.

Ok these questions goes full retard every time.

A trust is a legal box that is built around something.  If you don't have something around which to build the box, then you cannot build the box.  That is not a state to state thing, that is how the legal instrument works.

Think of it this way; if you told someone "here, hold this" and then handed them nothing...

..."here, hold this" is a trust so you've gotta be handing it something.

Now remember that transfer of an item in the NFRTR has NO BEARING on legal ownership.  Once you have made your deal with a broker for an NFA item that is being purchased for a trust, then THE TRUST OWNS IT, SO PUT IT IN THE SCHEDULE OF ASSETS.  Period. Full Stop.

If a lawyer told you not to list trust assets in the trust's schedule of assets, then find another lawyer.  Somehow I seriously doubt that an attorney said this; it is likely a miscommunication.

If you think that transfer of approval by ATF has any bearing on ownership, then YOU ARE WRONG.  Hell, even a prohibited person can OWN Title II items, they simply cannot possess them physically, and an FFL or SOT would not be able to sell it to them.  This was brought up in public comment to 41P if you care to research it further, and is a legitimate use of trusts to invest in or otherwise own Title II items.

ATF doesn't even have lawful authority to demand access to trust documents, so using what they allow or disallow for paperwork (or what has gotten by them) shouldn't be a litmus test for what is legally correct.

+1 to the above.

My understaning is that you have to include the schedule A if your trust document references one.  Mine does not have a scedule A, we assign items to the trust a different way, but many common trusts do, so read your own trust paperwork and include it if you need to.

As for when to assign an item to the trust, Im not a laywer, but the trust ownership has nothing to do with NFA approval, but if youre trying to convince the NFA to clear your trust to manufacture an SBR (Form 1) then it should already own the lower.  Buying an item on behalf of the trust is a little different, and that case I think you assign the Form 4 suppressor on the day you receive it.  You cant assign it sooner because its not in your possession.  For my trust we fill out paperwork that says we've assigned funds to the trust to cover the cost of the Form 4 item at the time of purchae and assign the can when it arrives.

I put my Uzi  carbine onto the schedule A to fund my trust and promptly sent off an e-form to SBR that rifle.

It was approved.

My first time to use my trust for my pistol suppressor my form got kicked back because there was nothing in the trust. I wouldn't take a chance, just put something in it to be safe.

Well considering no one tells you how to do this the "right" way.  I sent in Two form 4s and one form 1s with nothing filled out in the schedule A or B.  So we will see.  It may just depend on the examiner too.  I guess the next form I send in I'll add a $1.

It depends on the state.  In Michigan for example, an unfunded trust is invalid.  Many states have adopted the uniform trust code or at least parts of it.  Utc says a trust is not valid unless it holds something.  Just because ones sneaks by the examiner doesn't mean yours will.  It takes about 1 minutes to add property to a trust unless you have a terrible trust.  Why not just fund it and be done with the worry?

People that did my trust send to fund it ... So I funded it with a single 1$ bill

I had my first 2 Form 1s kicked back because my assignment page had nothing on it.
Got a letter from Dana Pickles saying it needed to reflect possession of some asset in order to be funded.
So I used a $2 bil and listed the SN.

That page was copied and placed with my trust so that I could just copy it for subsequent submissions, without listing other assets, as I have items other than just NFA items in the trust, and the BATFE doesn't need to know what those assets are.

You only need to provide documentation that the trust is funded for each form submitted, not a running list of what the trust owns, especially if you decide to transfer ownership of Title I firearms or non-NFA assets.

Interesting. I had a Form 1 and four Form 4's approved with an empty Schedule A during 2013-14.

Had my first F1 approved circa 2009 with 'none' written on the schedule A.

Since then I've kept it updated with the NFA items in the trust and have sent an updated Schedule A everytime.  

Why wouldn't I need to send the most updated schedule A when I submit any future paperwork?

You can do as you choose, but I have transferred all my Title I firearms into my trust, and the BATFE has no need to have any paperwork on them.
They only want to be sure that the trust is funded. Outside of that, they don't care. But if you send them an updated Schedule every time, and put Title I guns on there, and then something happens, they have a record. And The gov't isn't good about not using things against the people, as we all know....

yeah, I'm sure you're not in "the system" at all by keeping your schedules blank.  

What is this schedule A & B people are talking about? I just got my trust and plan on submitting my first Form 1 on Friday, my trust just has an assignment sheet, lawyer said to fill it out with signatures but leave the rest blank and include with my trust to the ATF.

Yeah, I don't quite get all this?  Unless I'm missing something, the ATF knows all about your NFA items whether you list them on the schedule or not, hence the whole reason for filling out the forms to begin with...to register your NFA items with the ATF.

Pretty sure a Schedule A is the same as an assignment sheet. It's just a sheet to keep track of the assets controlled by the trust. Some states require that a trust be funded (something by listed on the assignment sheet) before it's valid. I submitted my first Form 1 last week, and just listed the make/model/serial of my AR on my Schedule A. Hopefully the ATF won't kick it back to me.

For the purpose of doing a Form 1, adding the Title I lower that is being manufactured into a Title II lower, or any other type of item being registered, it's not a major issue.
However, if you decide to transfer ownership of of something like a handgun that will never be a Title II firearm, you have no need to inform the BATFE of that transfer.
However, if you send an updated list every time, and add in Title I items, or even non-firearm related items, you are giving the BATFE more information than you need to.

I had a suppressor,and sbr lower before I had any of my stamps.

 

It has nothing to do with being "in the system".
It has to do with not providing more info yo a gov't agency than is required.
What Title I firearms I own, and their sernos, along with any other non-firearms items I transfer to the trust is irrelevant to the requirement that you 'fund' the trust to satisfy the legal requirements of having a valid trust for the BATFE to 'verify' nor is there a requirement by the BATFE to submit a running list of NFA items owned by the trust.

I print off a copy of my valid trust that I scanned into my computer right after having the trust notarized and initially funded. That way they see its funded, and I keep extraneous info out of the hands of the gov't.

There are times when that approach could be problematic as well. State level ban with a grandfather clause? Let's say you had a bunch of SBRs in your trust...and your state bans them on 1/1/16, but not suppressors. Submitting a form 1/4 on 6/1/16 to get another suppressor and including a legal document that says your trust has no NFA stuff in it seems to be a problem when the state finds out that your trust does in fact have illegal guns in it that you have claimed, in writing, that you didn't possess prior to the grandfathering date. I'm sure all this could be worked out, but I see no benefit to tempting fate. I'm already on every single watch list imaginable. Including an SBR on from Schedule A doesn't suddenly vault me into the 'potential terrorist' realm, I've been there for years. Former Marine? check. Tea Party type? check. Owns lots of guns? check. Owns NFA stuff? check. Hates Obama? check. Carries a gun for a living? Check. Have SHTF gear/food? Check. I'm also getting a MA in security management, so I spend a lot of free time on Google searching for things like terrorism, bank robbery, intelligence gathering, espionage, biological warfare, security systems, bullet resistant materials, nuclear weapons and just about every other watch-list buzz word one can think of....so 'scary internet search history', check. The only list I'm not already on is the Muslim extremist list....but just saying that put me on the 'potential religious zealot list', so **** it. The point is, the government is either all powerful and scary or it's not. If it's not, we have nothing to worry about. If it is, not putting stuff on the Schedule A is hardly pulling the wool over their eyes. THEY KNOW, and if they don't, your blank schedule probably puts you on a "gun nut trying to hide things" list. The only way to beat the feds at the 'they know I have guns' game is to always buy all your stuff in FTF deals in your own state. Pay with cash...and find the sellers via informal networks or via internet searches and email contacts you make via a library computer or something. Otherwise, they know all about it, don't kid yourself.

I sent it my Trust with the serial number of the lower I was attempting to register on the schedule A and B. I did specify it as an NFA item. It worked and was approved. I am new to the game of trusts, but all I can say is that it did work me. My trust was specific to NFA items only though. It is an NFA Trust and not a LRT.

If you buy a gun from an FFL and do the background check, of course they know. I only put NFA items on my Schedule A because it is an NFA trust.

I don't think I've seen this answer yet... it all depends on whether the trust explicitly mentions a Schedule A. That's why I went with one of the larger practices that specialize in NFA trusts, Arsenal Attorneys. By specifying the initial funding of the trust ($10) in the body, no schedule is needed, and I never have to include any schedules when sending to ATF.

My understanding is that if the trust mentions a schedule A, then it must be included.

At the same time, any silencers added to the trust, at the direction of the lawyers that wrote my trust, are to be added to the trust via assignment sheet and those assignment sheets sent to ATF after I take possession.

YMMV...