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Posted: 11/10/2013 7:20:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2013 9:19:39 AM EST by EagleArmsHBAR]
I think this would make a good proposed addition to 18 USC 922

An act to be called the Assault Weapon Taxation Act of 2013, shall take effect with the following provisions:

Define "Assault Weapon" as any firearm capable of firing more than one cartridge with a single action of the trigger.

1) Pre-86 machine guns (now defined as Assault Weapons) AND those under section 3 below are grandfathered at $200/transfer;
2) Form 3 from Dealer to Dealer AND Form 4 to dealers (interstate and intrastate) have NO transfer tax and are INSTANTLY APPROVED;
3) There is a 24 month amnesty to register machine guns (now defined as AWs) that were produced before this Act was passed to bring the system up to date (no tax);
4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax;
5) Short Barreled Rifles are Title 1 firearms (Removed from the NFA);
6) Suppressors are Title 1 firearms (Removed from the NFA);
7) Any firearm not defined as an Assault Weapon under this section SHALL be deemed to have a sporting purpose, per the Gun Control Act of 1968; AND
8) Violations of this law will prosecuted by a fine of not more than $1,000 and/or probation not to exceed 30 days.

Someone should send this to Ted Cruz and get it written properly and added in the text of some Obama project bill.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 7:33:17 AM EST
No more laws thanks.

Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 7:34:02 AM EST
mmmmmmmmkay..........good luck with that
Just put me down for a CoC violation and I won't type what I'm really thinking. Save everyone some time
Suppress everything.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:40:56 AM EST
There were some guys one time who tried to get the Cleo signature removed. They said one had to use trusts to own NRA in states with unfriendly Cleo. Shortly thereafter the dictator from on high slapped an executive order down to help make laws that forced Cleo sign off on all trusts and members of trusts.

You CAN NOT play by their rules to win their rigged game.
I wouldn't say I'm a gun nut... but I'd consider extreme enthusiast.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:47:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By esa17:
No more laws thanks.

Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it.
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Word.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:08:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By cmcflex:


Word.
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Originally Posted By cmcflex:
Originally Posted By esa17:
No more laws thanks.

Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it.


Word.
If enacted as above tell me how it would tighten freedom as compared to loosen it.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:10:18 AM EST
GTFO with more Gun Control.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:14:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
GTFO with more Gun Control.
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There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws

I know I know..... Reading is for faggots
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:16:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2013 9:18:48 AM EST by EagleArmsHBAR]
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Originally Posted By Garage:


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Originally Posted By Garage:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
GTFO with more Gun Control.


There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws

I know I know..... Reading is for faggots
This is how you pass something like this. Present it in congress and the liberals, being faggots, wouldn't read it (hopefully) and vote for it.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:23:07 AM EST
It sounds great until they do what they are attempting to RFN!

One of the proposed "reforms" is to adjust the tax for 1930's inflation and therefore, fuck us. All of the sudden that $200 becomes a cost prohibitive defacto-ban all thanks to your freedom giving law and you gave them the tools to do it....Unless of course you don't mind paying an extra $4000 for your guns.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:26:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2013 9:27:56 AM EST by Garage]
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Originally Posted By esa17:
It sounds great until they do what they are attempting to RFN!

One of the proposed "reforms" is to adjust the tax for 1930's inflation and therefore, fuck us. All of the sudden that $200 becomes a cost prohibitive defacto-ban all thanks to your freedom giving law and you gave them the tools to do it....Unless of course you don't mind paying an extra $4000 for your guns.
View Quote


It gets SBR, SBS and suppressors OFF the register, Increases the tax to $1000 on MG's , but makes it a $1000 penalty for not having paid the tax


I would support this


(oh yeah, 24 month amnesty to register machine guns)
There is no Justice system, There is no criminal Justice system, there is ONLY a Legal system. "To protect and serve is the best marketing campaign of the 20th century"
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:31:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2013 9:32:05 AM EST by EagleArmsHBAR]
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Originally Posted By Garage:


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Originally Posted By Garage:
Originally Posted By esa17:
It sounds great until they do what they are attempting to RFN!

One of the proposed "reforms" is to adjust the tax for 1930's inflation and therefore, fuck us. All of the sudden that $200 becomes a cost prohibitive defacto-ban all thanks to your freedom giving law and you gave them the tools to do it....Unless of course you don't mind paying an extra $4000 for your guns.


It gets SBR, SBS and suppressors OFF the register, Increases the tax to $1000 on MG's , but makes it a $1000 penalty for not having paid the tax


I would support this


(oh yeah, 24 month amnesty to register machine guns)
And notice the $1000 tax is FOR NEW ASSAULT WEAPONS ONLY AFTER the Amnesty. Pre 86 MGs are still $200.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:36:21 AM EST
Just throw the entire NFA law, and it's registration requirements, in the trash.
It's none of the government's damn business if someone wants to own a machine gun, suppressor or a SBR.



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Posted: 11/10/2013 11:13:55 AM EST
Lol
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Posted: 11/10/2013 12:01:19 PM EST
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 12:25:58 PM EST
A man can dream.... lol
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Posted: 11/10/2013 12:42:09 PM EST
While you're dreaming, how about a $0 tax on a fundamental civil right, kthnx.
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CO, FL, MI, SC, NH - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
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Posted: 11/10/2013 1:00:17 PM EST
How about a $1000 tax on BS? No more new laws, social programs, or taxes. The land of the free is regulated, legislated, and taxed out the a...
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Posted: 11/10/2013 1:50:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Yabadabadoo:
How about a $1000 tax on BS? No more new laws, social programs, or taxes. The land of the free is regulated, legislated, and taxed out the a...
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No kidding, but how about having the ability to Form 1 a MG? Oh that's right, you can't right now either.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 3:11:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2013 3:14:08 PM EST by Homeinvader]
Why would you be willing to tax new AWs? Why not just omit that?
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Posted: 11/10/2013 3:27:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Why would you be willing to tax new AWs? Why not just omit that?
View Quote


I think he's trying to grease the wheels and back door a way for new machine guns to be produced. Because no liberal will ever go for reinstating MGs. Not that they would even if you have to pay $1000 for each one.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 4:38:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By carbonfly:


I think he's trying to grease the wheels and back door a way for new machine guns to be produced. Because no liberal will ever go for reinstating MGs. Not that they would even if you have to pay $1000 for each one.
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Originally Posted By carbonfly:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Why would you be willing to tax new AWs? Why not just omit that?


I think he's trying to grease the wheels and back door a way for new machine guns to be produced. Because no liberal will ever go for reinstating MGs. Not that they would even if you have to pay $1000 for each one.
If this was presented as a compromise to banning AWs, I think it could work as long as they passed it to find out what's in it.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 5:22:26 PM EST
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp.

You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 5:40:37 PM EST
Repeal the NFA of 1934, Section 922r of whatever law that was, and GCA of 1968 on the grounds they are unconstitutional under the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 5:43:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JoshNC:
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp.

You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms.
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Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 5:46:45 PM EST
No just no
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Posted: 11/10/2013 5:47:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise.
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp.

You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms.
Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise.


His point is, you cannot push a new law that isn't a full repeal. The libs are smart enough to turn around the law that you propose to their own benefit. They will take that $1,000 tax and say "Hey, lets just leave the NFA in place and charge a $1,000 tax." We can't play any kind of word game.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 7:27:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise.
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I did read it.

As for not a real compromise, I'm sure this is exactly what the NFATCA thought as well.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 7:35:55 PM EST
This is getting good!
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Posted: 11/10/2013 7:36:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Wolfpack2013:


His point is, you cannot push a new law that isn't a full repeal. The libs are smart enough to turn around the law that you propose to their own benefit. They will take that $1,000 tax and say "Hey, lets just leave the NFA in place and charge a $1,000 tax." We can't play any kind of word game.
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Originally Posted By Wolfpack2013:
Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp.

You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms.
Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise.


His point is, you cannot push a new law that isn't a full repeal. The libs are smart enough to turn around the law that you propose to their own benefit. They will take that $1,000 tax and say "Hey, lets just leave the NFA in place and charge a $1,000 tax." We can't play any kind of word game.


Or they will adjust the $200 for inflation and according to this calculator here: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ that would be $3,494.76 (using 1934 as the first year input). They would probably just round up to $4,000, given that the idea is to price the tax stamps out of reach of the average joe.

Then instead of allowing new machine guns to be registered, they will simply add semiautomatic rifles such as AR's, AK's, HK's, FAL's, etc etc. to the list of NFA items, in it's own new category. Some people will say, but they can't do that, blah blah blah, but do you really put anything past them at this point?

After the whole Trust CLEO fiasco that we are now experiencing, I'm surprised any thinking man believes it's a good idea to attempt to deal with the devil.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:45:57 PM EST
you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it.

just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 3:51:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2013 3:51:35 AM EST by EagleArmsHBAR]
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Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it.

just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs.
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This is true. Why there is never a pro-2nd Amendment guy appointed there to do the opposite is beyond me. Who has the power to declare an amnesty? Secretary of the Treasury? Attorney General?
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Posted: 11/11/2013 4:24:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2013 4:33:08 AM EST by Garage]
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Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it.

just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs.
View Quote


That was A Clinton Executive order based on the fact that ALL guns over 1/2" diameter are , by codified law Destructive devices UNLESS the Attorney General finds is has a "sporting purpose" Clinton just removed the exception.... The same way they could legally make EVERY 12 Gauge in the country a Destructive Device, as legally they already are

Were the street sweepers made in .410, he could not have done that....


The ATF CAN NOT "just change the rules" there is a codified rulemaking process they must follow (see 41P the change in CLEO requirement to trusts happening now).... Executive orders however , due to the way the NFA is written dont need to follow that rulemaking process.


And finally, no matter how bad they wanted to "make a rule" , codified law trumps rulemaking every time. And the Codified National Firearms Act has very specific properties which it can regulate. ATF can not just "decree" a title 1 firearm is a title 2 firearm cause they want to, and NOTHING about a 16" Semi Automatic AR15 qualifies.



I don't know where you guys are getting your information, but a collegiate civics class would do you wonders

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Posted: 11/11/2013 4:27:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
This is true. Why there is never a pro-2nd Amendment guy appointed there to do the opposite is beyond me. Who has the power to declare an amnesty? Secretary of the Treasury? Attorney General?
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
Originally Posted By leonpiper69:
you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it.

just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs.
This is true. Why there is never a pro-2nd Amendment guy appointed there to do the opposite is beyond me. Who has the power to declare an amnesty? Secretary of the Treasury? Attorney General?


No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty"
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Posted: 11/11/2013 5:05:20 AM EST
The antigunners would see right through it as an attempt to dismantle the NFA. We need to be more subtle than this.

As a nitpick, what would it do for machine guns manufactured during the 24-month "amnesty" period?
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Posted: 11/11/2013 6:28:43 AM EST
There's no way that would be passed.

Lib voters would hang any D voting for that.

also imagine the headlines...

"GOP legalizes machine guns to kill more babies"


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Posted: 11/11/2013 6:50:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AlexanderA:
The antigunners would see right through it as an attempt to dismantle the NFA. We need to be more subtle than this.

As a nitpick, what would it do for machine guns manufactured during the 24-month "amnesty" period?
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no tax to register, then grandfathered at $200
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Posted: 11/11/2013 8:24:46 AM EST
Have we not yet learned that we don't want this congress nor this administration anywhere near Gun Laws, especially to "improve" them?
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Posted: 11/11/2013 8:53:45 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Garage:



There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws

I know I know..... Reading is for faggots
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Originally Posted By Garage:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
GTFO with more Gun Control.



There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws

I know I know..... Reading is for faggots


Read My Lips, No New Taxes:

4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax;

Please show me where in the NFA law there is a $1000 tax on an NFA firearm. If you cannot do it, than who is the faggot who cannot read?
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Posted: 11/11/2013 8:56:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2013 8:57:23 AM EST by Garage]
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Read My Lips, No New Taxes:

4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax;

Please show me where in the NFA law there is a $1000 tax on an NFA firearm. If you cannot do it, than who is the faggot who cannot read?
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Garage:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
GTFO with more Gun Control.



There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws

I know I know..... Reading is for faggots


Read My Lips, No New Taxes:

4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax;

Please show me where in the NFA law there is a $1000 tax on an NFA firearm. If you cannot do it, than who is the faggot who cannot read?


You?

He is proposing a law CHANGE..... Show me in the NFA where there is a 24 month amnesty orwhere SBR's and Suppressors are off the registry
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:17:06 AM EST
How about a law that says something like:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, PERIOD.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:19:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JC10311:
How about a law that says something like:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, PERIOD.
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Farrrrrrr too confusing

" the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Would save a ration of shit
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Posted: 11/11/2013 10:35:04 AM EST
If you want to start something start a drive to remove the "necessary for a free state" part of the second
Just put me down for a CoC violation and I won't type what I'm really thinking. Save everyone some time
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Posted: 11/11/2013 11:16:06 AM EST
Pass.

The fact that you think baboons who cannot balance a checkbook are competent to get this right is kind of sad.

Shall not be infringed.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 11:39:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Garage:
No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty"
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GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 11:42:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2013 11:42:57 AM EST by williewvr]
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Originally Posted By Circuits:

GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date.
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Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By Garage:
No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty"

GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting either.
Just put me down for a CoC violation and I won't type what I'm really thinking. Save everyone some time
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Posted: 11/11/2013 11:42:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2013 11:43:45 AM EST by EagleArmsHBAR]
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Originally Posted By Circuits:

GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date.
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Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By Garage:
No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty"

GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date.
If the point of the NFA is true registration, there needs to be another amnesty to adjust for the GWOT. But of course we all know it is not about registration, but banning MGs.
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Posted: 11/12/2013 3:55:02 PM EST
First, to the OP, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I also agree that the most likely way that we repeal "Hughes" is with trickery just like it was passed in the first place. I personally favor some retiring congressman dropping a single sentence in a 1,000 page bill that is a must pass piece of legislation. Second, to those that vehemently oppose trying to do something about Hughes similar to what the OP proposed basically means you are in favor of the status quo because a flat out open repeal of NFA ain't likely anytime soon if ever. And what does the status quo mean? It means when my son is my age an M16 will cost him $50,000 if not more. So while you are nay saying the OP's ideas you are basically saying, "I support M16s costing $50,000 in 35 years".

However, I think the OP's stated method is too convoluted and grand. We need a single sentence such as "18 USC Section 922 is amended to add 18 USC Section 922 (o)(2)(C) any firearm made or registered pursuant to Title 26, United States Code,
Chapter 53" or whatever verbiage best defines the new making or manufacture of machine guns via a Form 1 or 2. The primary point being Hughes could be totally undone with the addition of about 25 words to 18 USC 922.
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Posted: 11/12/2013 4:28:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JC10311:
How about a law that says something like:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, PERIOD.
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And we have a winner!
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Posted: 11/12/2013 4:41:34 PM EST
Lets look at the recent past and see what happened when a "Pro Gun" group suggested a change in the NFA process... Now what was that... Oh yeah. Lets remove the CLEO signature...

We all know how that turned out.

KEEP the NFA out of the lime light and we can still work with a FUBAR system. NFA keeps popping up then we all get screwed...

MAHA
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Posted: 11/12/2013 4:54:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By esa17:
No more laws thanks.

Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it.
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