Login System 
IMPORTANT: Please note that you must now log in with your email address and not your username!
 TT4life
Member
Team Member
Joined: Apr 2009  TX, USA
 Posts: 2905 Feedback: 100% (19) |
Posted: 7/30/2012 11:40:37 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT The next one is more complicated. My question is how can the slide fire stock be legal? I am asking because I have a product idea and am interested in how it is legally not considered FA. Thanks! |
|
|
|
gunner01
Member
Life Member
Joined: May 2007 TX, USA
 
Posts: 1411 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post |
Posted: 7/30/2012 11:45:36 PM
The ATF is a rogue agency doing anything they want.
The side fire does not modify the trigger function. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/30/2012 11:54:54 PM
Originally Posted By TT4life: First one is easy. A buddy who wants a suppressor is worried about having one. Someone told him the ATF could show up anytime without a warrant and demand to see his suppressor. Is that true? The next one is more complicated. My question is how can the slide fire stock be legal? I am asking because I have a product idea and am interested in how it is legally not considered FA. Thanks! 1) No, they can only demand to see his Tax Stamp. 2) It is only legal while the ATF says it is legal. |
|
|
|
ajm1911
Gas God
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2003 CO, USA
Posts: 3048 Feedback: 100% (37) Link To This Post |
Posted: 7/30/2012 11:58:37 PM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2012 11:11:14 AM by ajm1911]
The rumor about NFA owners subject to search whenever is baloney.
To get a warrant the ATF would still have to go through all the normal steps for a warrant. The rule of thumb for a MG is that a MG fires more than one round with a single manipulation/function/pull of the trigger. Slidefire requires one pull for each round, that is the trigger functions each time (multiple pulls for multiple rounds). Slidefire is a bump fire asist device. Bump fire assist devices have been around for many years (google hellfire, hellstorm, etc). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2012 12:38:23 AM
I think it's kosher because you still have to apply forward force with your supporting hand to cycle the trigger.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2012 4:47:12 PM
No mechanical "assist" such as a spring like in the Atkins accelerator. All it does is allow your finger and forward hand to bump fire. Expect anything with any extra parts to be rejected by ATF and if similar to the slide fire expect Atkins to send you a letter you are treading on his patent.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2012 5:56:46 PM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2012 5:58:06 PM by No2sc2]
Please, people have to UNDERSTAND, when you file the paperwork to get your NFA registered, you don't agree or give up your 4TH AMENDMENT rights. Theres no section on the FORM1/4 that says you give up your 4th amendment rights.
or any section of the paperwork asking to give up your 4th amendment rights. |
|
|
|
bigcbass
Member
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2008 TX, USA
Posts: 1649 Feedback: 100% (5) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/1/2012 5:18:07 PM
[Last Edit: 8/3/2012 4:18:34 PM by bigcbass]
1) You are required to produce the stamp to an ATF official without a warrant.
2) Slidefire is legal for now....but honestly I don;t think I would buy one. My bet is that sometime soon the ATF will make some ruling that they constitute a machine gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2012 8:53:57 AM
Slide Fire is legal due to the ATF definition of a machine gun. As a previous poster mentioned, as long as one pull of the trigger (no matter how long you hold the trigger) only fires one round, it is not a machine gun...yet. To operate a Slide Fire, the shooter rests his trigger finger on the rest built into the Slide Fire on the opposite side of the trigger guard as his trigger hand. That allows his trigger finger to be resting in front of, but not quite pulling the trigger. Firing the gun is accomplished by the shooter using his off hand to apply forward pressure to the gun using the foreend/VFR which in turn brings the trigger into contact with the trigger finger and fires the gun. The recoil then causes the weapon to slide backwards into the Slide Fire stock and allows the trigger to reset. If forward pressure is maintained, the weapon will then slide forward in the Slide Fire stock and activate the trigger again by pushing it against the trigger finger. If that is clear enough, there is no reason it would be illegal unless the ATF changes the current MG definition. The Slide Fire is only a stock and the weapon is still semi automatic. The Slide Fire just assists the shooter in firing faster. Constant forward pressure for the shooter's offhand will cycle the gun with one trigger pull each time the weapon fires a round, recoils, and forward pressure pulls the trigger again. This eliminates pretty much all movement by the shooter and cycles as quickly as recoil pushes the weapon back, trigger resets, and forward pressure causes the trigger to be pulled again.
|
|
|
|
bigcbass
Member
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2008 TX, USA
Posts: 1654 Feedback: 100% (5) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/3/2012 4:03:45 PM
[Last Edit: 8/3/2012 4:12:50 PM by bigcbass]
I would not be so sure about that. The trigger resetting is not enough. The ATF has already ruled that a device which fires from constant finger pressure....like a slidefire... is a machine gun.
"The trigger mechanically resets, and the device, which has a coiled spring located forward of the firearm receiver, is compressed. Energy from this spring subsequently drives the firearm forward into its normal firing position and, in turn, causes the trigger to contact the shooter’s trigger finger. Provided the shooter maintains finger pressure against the stock, the weapon will fire repeatedly until the ammunition is exhausted or the finger is removed. The assembled device is advertised to fire approximately 650 rounds per minute. Live-fire testing of this device demonstrated that a single pull of the trigger initiates an automatic firing cycle which continues until the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted.....ATF has determined that the device constitutes a machinegun under the NFA and GCA." http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2006-2.pdf Further the ATF has stated that "you must consciously pull the trigger for each shot." http://jpfo.org/images02/batfe-lee-bumpfire.jpg All I am saying is I would tread very lightly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2012 7:34:54 PM
Originally Posted By TT4life:
First one is easy. A buddy who wants a suppressor is worried about having one. Someone told him the ATF could show up anytime without a warrant and demand to see his suppressor. Is that true? The next one is more complicated. My question is how can the slide fire stock be legal? I am asking because I have a product idea and am interested in how it is legally not considered FA. Thanks! See now my friend said the ATF can come over your house @ 2:37am with a 42" piece of garden hose with lead shot in it with both ends crimped  |
|
|
|
Circuits
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2001 CO, USA
Posts: 6270 Feedback: 100% (21) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/3/2012 8:31:48 PM
[Last Edit: 8/3/2012 8:32:14 PM by Circuits]
Originally Posted By har1340:
See now my friend said the ATF can come over your house @ 2:37am with a 42" piece of garden hose with lead shot in it with both ends crimped Of course they can. They can do that right now even if you don't have any NFA items. They just won't be doing so lawfully, whether or not you have any NFA. |
|
ARCHIVED
