User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 2:12:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jestertoo]
I took a quick stab at this. Before I spend any more time, is there a better one already out there?
J ETA: I'll be making updates to the image below in place as people suggest them. ETA2 2014/04/18: I don't have an easy way to work on this anymore. As pointed out below, there are several updates and inconsistencies. 1) the sound suppressor question should be question #1, not the last question. 2) esoteric things like taking a non-regulated firearm and converting it to suppressed or sbr would make it a "new" firearm regulated by the NFA.. Just like C&R ONLY applies to original firearms. 3) The letter on the 1919's being only a firearm. i.e. they only have to meet the OAL, not the BBL length. 4) The letter on OEM pistol gripped shotguns being only a firearm as well, only needing to meet OAL.  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 2:36:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Were you going to cover suppressors or VFG Pistol AOW's?
OAL<26" for SBR's and SBS's. You have 28" and XX" |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 3:36:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jestertoo]
[#2]
Originally Posted By cedricxerxes:
Were you going to cover suppressors or VFG Pistol AOW's? OAL<26" for SBR's and SBS's. You have 28" and XX" Fixed the OAL and had already added the VFG to the pistol :) Suppressors are pretty self explanatory, but I can add a box for it. |
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 4:17:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Dont forget the state forms that you have to fill out for La
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 4:31:33 PM EDT
[#4]
You forgot the FBHO box.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 4:53:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Not sure about the smooth bore pistol logic...
Barrel < 18" = No ––––> Pistol? = Yes ––––> AOW By this do you mean a Pistol with a barrel > 18" = AOW? Isn't this just a Title 1 long gun? What about pistol-gripped shotguns that have never had a stock with barrels less than 18"? They would be AOW's. Is that the case you are trying to cover? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2010 5:07:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By cedricxerxes:
Not sure about the smooth bore pistol logic... Barrel < 18" = No ––––> Pistol? = Yes ––––> AOW By this do you mean a Pistol with a barrel > 18" = AOW? Isn't this just a Title 1 long gun? What about pistol-gripped shotguns that have never had a stock with barrels less than 18"? They would be AOW's. Is that the case you are trying to cover? Thanks. I'll fix it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2010 4:59:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Not sure you want to go into this level of detail, but there are at least two ATF Rulings that classify certain semi-automatic, open-bolt firearms as machine guns. Depending upon their manufacture/assembly date, they are either Title I or Title II firearms.
ATF Rul. 82-2 KG-9 pistols manufactured on or after January 19, 1982 are subject to NFA. Here's a pre-82 for sale for only $5000! 
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141226 Two KG-9's for $5000. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=248415 Recent Gunbroker auction for $1400. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=177077617 ATF Rul. 82-8 SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines, manufactured or assembled on or after June 21, 1982 are subject to NFA. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/9/2010 12:22:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By cedricxerxes:
Not sure you want to go into this level of detail, but there are at least two ATF Rulings that classify certain semi-automatic, open-bolt firearms as machine guns. Depending upon their manufacture/assembly date, they are either Title I or Title II firearms. ATF Rul. 82-2 KG-9 pistols manufactured on or after January 19, 1982 are subject to NFA. Here's a pre-82 for sale for only $5000!
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141226 Two KG-9's for $5000. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=248415 Recent Gunbroker auction for $1400. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=177077617 ATF Rul. 82-8 SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines, manufactured or assembled on or after June 21, 1982 are subject to NFA. I can go add that in easy enough. J |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2010 4:54:23 PM EDT
[#9]
note that there is a different definition for "antique firearms" as it applies to the NFA versus the GCA. For instance, a pre-98 lever-action rifle with a 14" barrel is considered an SBR, but your flowchart says it is legal.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2010 10:22:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:
note that there is a different definition for "antique firearms" as it applies to the NFA versus the GCA. For instance, a pre-98 lever-action rifle with a 14" barrel is considered an SBR, but your flowchart says it is legal. You are partially correct. Most of those guns are listed in 5300.11 Section 3 as removed from the NFA, but they are still Title I guns under GCA. Section 3A shows some 1892's removed from NFA AND the GCA as antiques. Jess |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2010 10:35:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:
note that there is a different definition for "antique firearms" as it applies to the NFA versus the GCA. For instance, a pre-98 lever-action rifle with a 14" barrel is considered an SBR, but your flowchart says it is legal. You are partially correct. Most of those guns are listed in 5300.11 Section 3 as removed from the NFA, but they are still Title I guns under GCA. Section 3A shows some 1892's removed from NFA AND the GCA as antiques. Jess right, BATF has exempted SOME factory 1892s from the NFA, but if I take a standard 1892 or 1887 shotgun and cut it down, I have created an illegal NFA firearm (if I don't have an approved Form 1) even though it is a GCA antique. Your flowchart just says that antique firearms are exempt from the federal rules and shows that antiques don't have to comply wiith the NFA regs, since those questions are asked later in the flowchart. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 8/30/2010 6:35:40 PM EDT
[#12]
What about short barreled 1919's. They are not SBR's just firearms
They don't seem to follow your flow chart properly |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2010 11:21:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jestertoo]
[#13]
Originally Posted By Danman:
What about short barreled 1919's. They are not SBR's just firearms They don't seem to follow your flow chart properly Rifles = designed to be shoulder fired. I need to redefine some words to make it more clear. I think the short barreled semi-auto 1919's fall under the pistol category. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2010 12:17:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
the short barreled 1919a4's are just considered firearms, not pistols. they have to stay over 26" OAL lest they be considered an AOW.
Originally Posted By Danman:
What about short barreled 1919's. They are not SBR's just firearms They don't seem to follow your flow chart properly Rifles = designed to be shoulder fired. I need to redefine some words to make it more clear. I think the short barreled semi-auto 1919's fall under the pistol category. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2010 2:54:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
the short barreled 1919a4's are just considered firearms, not pistols. they have to stay over 26" OAL lest they be considered an AOW.
Rifles = designed to be shoulder fired. I need to redefine some words to make it more clear. I think the short barreled semi-auto 1919's fall under the pistol category. So then what is it's distinguishing characteristic that then removes it from both pistol and rifle regs, besides being a 1919? Not designed to be fired from shoulder or hand? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2010 3:13:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
a standard 1919a4 is not a rifle, since it is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. It is merely a firearm. And the defintion of handgun requires it to be designed to be fired with one hand, which a 1919a4 is not. BATF has said that the barrel of a 1919a4 can be below 16" without violating the law, but that if it goes below 26" OAL, because at that point it is considered a concealable firearm that is not a pistol. I guess since most people could not one hand a cut-down 1919a4, they are saying that it is not a handgun. I wonder what they would say to a modified 1919a4 with the PG relocated to below the action, that might be fireable one-handed.
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
the short barreled 1919a4's are just considered firearms, not pistols. they have to stay over 26" OAL lest they be considered an AOW.
Rifles = designed to be shoulder fired. I need to redefine some words to make it more clear. I think the short barreled semi-auto 1919's fall under the pistol category. So then what is it's distinguishing characteristic that then removes it from both pistol and rifle regs, besides being a 1919? Not designed to be fired from shoulder or hand? 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2010 12:00:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Ok, so a non-pistol, non-rifle "firearm" can have a rifled barrel less than 16" and not be NFA as long as it's >26" OAL.
How, if at all, does this apply to smoothbores? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2010 2:30:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
Ok, so a non-pistol, non-rifle "firearm" can have a rifled barrel less than 16" and not be NFA as long as it's >26" OAL. How, if at all, does this apply to smoothbores? possibly, that is what this thread is about http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1077741 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2010 1:57:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:
Originally Posted By jestertoo:
Ok, so a non-pistol, non-rifle "firearm" can have a rifled barrel less than 16" and not be NFA as long as it's >26" OAL. How, if at all, does this apply to smoothbores? possibly, that is what this thread is about http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1077741 That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 12/7/2011 9:40:53 AM EDT
[#20]
The very first decision point is wrong/incomplete. According to NFA a silencer is a "gun" but it doesn't fire a projectile of any kind in any way. Your silencer question of "Does your device reduce the sound signature?" should be directly after the "no" answer on your first decision point.
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/17/2014 5:55:29 PM EDT
[#21]
This is a great resource but is it true that if I were to cut the barrel of my 1895 Chilean Mauser down it would not be an SBR?
How about an integrally suppressed 1895 Chilean Mauser? Mike |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/6/2014 3:23:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SilentKnight04]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Mike:
This is a great resource but is it true that if I were to cut the barrel of my 1895 Chilean Mauser down it would not be an SBR? How about an integrally suppressed 1895 Chilean Mauser? Mike I would also like to know this information. I'm gonna go with no. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/6/2014 10:37:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilentKnight04:
I would also like to know this information. I'm gonna go with no. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilentKnight04:
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
This is a great resource but is it true that if I were to cut the barrel of my 1895 Chilean Mauser down it would not be an SBR? How about an integrally suppressed 1895 Chilean Mauser? Mike I would also like to know this information. I'm gonna go with no. I did an ETA on the OP a couple of months ago. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/9/2014 8:58:42 PM EDT
[#24]
so its a no......
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/10/2014 11:00:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SilentKnight04:
so its a no...... If you take your non-regulated Chilean Mauser and modify it into a regulated configuration, it becomes an NFA weapon. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 9/16/2018 6:15:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Unless I’m missing something obvious this seems like it needs an update now that pistol braces are legal.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2018 7:01:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AzAgLover:
Unless I’m missing something obvious this seems like it needs an update now that pistol braces are legal. 
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 9/19/2018 1:20:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
What am I missing? Doesn't this path get you where you need to be? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/126679/IMG_2174_PNG-673733.png |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/8/2020 5:10:53 PM EDT
[#29]
What if I have an 8in barreled AR patterned rifle with a fixed A2 butt stock with an overall length of 28", What do I have?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/8/2020 10:22:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NTX_hunter: What if I have an 8in barreled AR patterned rifle with a fixed A2 butt stock with an overall length of 28", What do I have? SBR due to barrel <16” and a stock. |
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 7/15/2022 8:48:52 AM EDT
[#31]
Looks good according to my limited NFA knowledge, but my favorites is the box on the bottom left
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
