User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
MN, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2009 4:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TruePunisher]
[#1]
The engraving represents the address of the maker at the moment the NFA item is "made." Once it exists, no further engraving is neccessary, just as Colt or Winchester do not need to recall all their production and re-engrave them all every time the companies move. For in-state moves, ATF asks that you notify them –– just send them a letter with your new address. They do not issue any new paperwork. For interstate moves, you are required to file a Form 5320.20 application listing your new address, and get the approved copy in your hands before you actually transport the item to the new state. Again, though, your Form 1 or Form 4 is unchanged, so you just keep the copy of the .20 with your other paperwork. Copy, thanks for the information. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2009 1:34:26 AM EDT
[#2]
so i also need to fill out the ATF Form 5330.20? im sending my paperwork in sometime this week, but i was not aware of this form.....
thanks, matt |
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Posted: 2/13/2009 7:40:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: viper5243]
[#3]
I haven't check out EVERY thread but haven't seen this asked.
I just picked up a RRA lower to do my SBR. The lower is marked "cal 5.56mm" but the 7inch upper im listing is in 9mm. So in box 4E i have 7" but in box 4C do i put 5.56 (what the receiver says) or 9mm (what the barrel is) |
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Posted: 2/13/2009 12:02:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By viper5243:
I haven't check out EVERY thread but haven't seen this asked. I just picked up a RRA lower to do my SBR. The lower is marked "cal 5.56mm" but the 7inch upper im listing is in 9mm. So in box 4E i have 7" but in box 4C do i put 5.56 (what the receiver says) or 9mm (what the barrel is) The description on the Form 1 should match the configuration of how you are going to initially build it. So if you are putting a 9mm upper on it, you list 9mm as the caliber, regardless of any conflicting markings on the receiver. |
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Posted: 2/13/2009 4:39:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By Err0r:
Yes you can put any size barrel on it as long as you can return it to the original 10.5 upper. If you plan on selling the 10.5 upper you would need to mail the ATF a letter stating your new barrel length A co worker called the ATF and was told that this is not the case? He asked if she was familiar with the AR platform and she said no. How would someone find out for SURE if this is correct? She did say you could put any length SBR barrel on it just not a 16"+ |
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Posted: 2/18/2009 4:30:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By Stan_TheGunNut:
Originally Posted By FiftyCalAl:
what do you suggest for caliber if you plan on usingg different ones? What about different barrell lengths? should you just put 6 inches down and then you can alwaays go longer? Thanks My understanding is that whatever barrel length and caliber that you place on your Form 1, you should be able to maintain that configuration. For example, if you state that you have a 10.5 inch barrel in 5.56 mm, make sure that you can restore the SBR to that configuration by keeping a 10.5 in barrel in 5.56 mm in your safe. You can change calibers and barrel length as long as you can restore it to its configuration as identified on the Form 1. I have also heard that the ATF appreciates it if you attach a separate sheet stating that you also intend on using the SBR with the following calibers and barrel lengths when you send the paperwork off. However, I have never extended them this courtesy. Question... can you list the standard 18" barrel and OAL on the SBR form instead of a 10.5 or such barrel? It would make it easier to return it to that configuration if something were to happen to it. |
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Posted: 2/18/2009 6:03:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By Blund:
Question... can you list the standard 18" barrel and OAL on the SBR form instead of a 10.5 or such barrel? It would make it easier to return it to that configuration if something were to happen to it. No. Because a rifle with a barrel over 16" and an OAL over 26" does not fall within the definition of a Short-Barrelled Rifle, and thus ATF will reject the application. |
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Posted: 2/19/2009 10:34:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By Blund:
Question... can you list the standard 18" barrel and OAL on the SBR form instead of a 10.5 or such barrel? It would make it easier to return it to that configuration if something were to happen to it. No. Because a rifle with a barrel over 16" and an OAL over 26" does not fall within the definition of a Short-Barrelled Rifle, and thus ATF will reject the application. Gotcha, thanks! |
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Posted: 2/25/2009 7:17:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BADZ06]
[#9]
My rifle will have a 10.5 barrel on it. Do I measure the OAL with the stock collapsed or extended?
ETA: Think I found it. It should be extended with muzzle devices removed. |
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Posted: 3/3/2009 9:16:53 PM EDT
[#10]
For listing the OAL, do you need to put the shortest length possible if using a collapsible stock?
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2009 11:36:49 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm using a trust if you use name/trust on the receiver do you also put the same thing on the form 1?
Also using a trust what info do you put on the schedule A of the trust? Do you send it in blank? Thanks RLP |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2009 11:48:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mvintx]
[#12]
[/quote]
No. Because a rifle with a barrel over 16" and an OAL over 26" does not fall within the definition of a Short-Barrelled Rifle, and thus ATF will reject the application. [/quote] I'm a little confused here. I'm told the OAL of my V53 with a collapsible buttstock will be 29.5". Will the ATF reject my application if my bbl is 8" or is it a combination of "bbl over 16 inches and OAL over 26 inches"? Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/5/2009 8:31:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tony_k]
[#13]
Originally Posted By mvintx:
I'm a little confused here. I'm told the OAL of my V53 with a collapsible buttstock will be 29.5". Will the ATF reject my application if my bbl is 8" or is it a combination of "bbl over 16 inches and OAL over 26 inches"? Thanks. A rifle is defined as a shoulder-fired gun with a barrel over 16" and an OAL of over 26". A rifle which does not meet both minimums falls into the Short-Barrelled Rifle category of the NFA. So your V53 will qualify as an SBR because the barrel is under 16 inches. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2009 8:52:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Ahso, thank you very much, sir.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/7/2009 9:28:14 PM EDT
[#15]
I thought all forms had to go to GA now... no??
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Posted: 4/7/2009 9:32:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By Spectre323:
I thought all forms had to go to GA now... no?? No. Everything goes to Ga. except Form 1's, which instead go to W.Va. 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/7/2009 9:36:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Spectre323]
[#17]
Ahh Ok, so then everything on this page is current then?? 09/2007 is the latest rev?
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Posted: 4/9/2009 9:29:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Ugh....
I just stuck my form 1 in the mail box and realized i forgot my copy of my trust. You guys think it will be ok if i send it separately and just put my Trust Name ans SN addressed to my examiner? |
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Posted: 4/12/2009 3:54:52 PM EDT
[#19]
OK, so what is the correct address to send the Form 1 to for SBR? I've got my paperwork completed and just want to make sure I address the envelope to the right place......
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Posted: 4/12/2009 9:36:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Form 1's should be mailed to:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives National Firearms Act Branch 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 |
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Posted: 4/12/2009 9:55:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Form 1's should be mailed to: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives National Firearms Act Branch 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 That is the address on the form, but I have been seeing conflicting posts saying to mail it to Atlanta. 
I remember a couple of years back sending them to Atlanta. |
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Posted: 4/13/2009 12:43:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Form 1's have never been sent to Atlanta. You can send them there if you want to, but all it will do is delay the approval of the Form 1.
Here is The Way Things Work: ––Atlanta is the Form-processing center for BATFE. They handle most all ATF paperwork and fees. They also handle most all bank deposits of ATF fees. ––The exception to the above is NFA applications, which are handled by NFA branch, located in West Virginia. Form 4's are processed first by Atlanta, where they strip out the checks/MOs/etc. and deposit them, then forward the rest of the application to W.Va. for processing. Form 1's are treated differently from Form 4's because applications to make an NFA item are circumscibed by both federal and state law. Many states do not allow residents to make NFA items of a particular class; federal law does not allow any non-LE-or-mil to make an MG. Rather than deposit the funds only to have the application rejected later, Form 1's are first examined by the W.Va. staff to make sure what is being proposed to be made is legal, then the package is sent to Atlanta for processing of the fees, and it is returned to W.Va. for processing. So yes, you can send a Form 1 to Atlanta. It will be forwarded by mail to W.Va., then reforwarded to Atlanta for payment processing, then reforwarded back to W.Va. for processing. If you want to delay the processing of your Form 1 by a couple of weeks, send it to Atlanta. If you want it approved as fast as possible, send it to W.Va.
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Posted: 4/13/2009 12:52:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Form 1's have never been sent to Atlanta. You can send them there if you want to, but all it will do is delay the approval of the Form 1. Here is The Way Things Work: ––Atlanta is the Form-processing center for BATFE. They handle most all ATF paperwork and fees. They also handle most all bank deposits of ATF fees. ––The exception to the above is NFA applications, which are handled by NFA branch, located in West Virginia. Form 4's are processed first by Atlanta, where they strip out the checks/MOs/etc. and deposit them, then forward the rest of the application to W.Va. for processing. Form 1's are treated differently from Form 4's because applications to make an NFA item are circumscibed by both federal and state law. Many states do not allow residents to make NFA items of a particular class; federal law does not allow any non-LE-or-mil to make an MG. Rather than deposit the funds only to have the application rejected later, Form 1's are first examined by the W.Va. staff to make sure what is being proposed to be made is legal, then the package is sent to Atlanta for processing of the fees, and it is returned to W.Va. for processing. So yes, you can send a Form 1 to Atlanta. It will be forwarded by mail to W.Va., then reforwarded to Atlanta for payment processing, then reforwarded back to W.Va. for processing. If you want to delay the processing of your Form 1 by a couple of weeks, send it to Atlanta. If you want it approved as fast as possible, send it to W.Va. Thanks for the clarification. That is EXACTLY what I was looking for. |
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Posted: 5/4/2009 9:19:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By pd7575:
I am going to SBR my rifle and this is what I was told by my FFL to engrave on the lower FFL name The engraved name must be the name of the maker applicant on the Form 1 (or Form 2 for manufacturers). So if the FFL is registering it in his name, you use his name (and he is responsible for engraving it, not you); if you are filing a Form 1, you engrave your name, not the FFL's. City and State SBR Ser# Just use the existing serial number. There is no requirement to add a second serial number, and BATFE recommends you not do so. Is this correct and if not what needs to go on the lower to make it right. Thanks for the help You engrave: Your name Your city/state Can you appreviate your first name with an initial, like M. Mouse rather than Mickey Mouse? It seems that way from pics in threads I've seen. Thanks. |
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Posted: 5/7/2009 7:40:35 PM EDT
[#25]
If I live within city limits can I still go to the county sheriff as CLEO or do I have to hope the city police chief will sign off on my Form 1?
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Posted: 5/7/2009 10:47:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
If I live within city limits can I still go to the county sheriff as CLEO or do I have to hope the city police chief will sign off on my Form 1? Either one may legally sign for you. |
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Posted: 5/8/2009 3:05:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Morg308]
[#27]
I live in the next county to the one my city of residence is in. (the city is on my legal address.) I was told by a Class III I could go to either. I know the cops at the city, the county is a much longer drive. (My town encompasses two counties within it's borders technically but I am NOT within city limits - neither are a lot of folks.) Do I have to go to the sheriff as CLEO since they have jurisdiction? Sorry if this is a dumb question.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2009 1:38:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By Morg308:
It has to be signed by who ever has jurisdiction over your residence.
I live in the next county to the one my city of residence is in. (the city is on my legal address.) I was told by a Class III I could go to either. I know the cops at the city, the county is a much longer drive. (My town encompasses two counties within it's borders technically but I am NOT within city limits - neither are a lot of folks.) Do I have to go to the sheriff as CLEO since they have jurisdiction? Sorry if this is a dumb question. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2009 9:39:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By FiftyCalAl:
what do you suggest for caliber if you plan on usingg different ones? What about different barrell lengths? should you just put 6 inches down and then you can alwaays go longer? Thanks Caliber doesn't matter. the ONLY stipulation to this is whatever caliber you put on the form you need to be able to 'readily' convert the weapon back to that caliber. Sometimes they will approve "Multi" in the caliber box, sometimes they wont... who knows this those people... If you make a 5.56 SBR AR-15 then you want to list the caliber as "5.56". If you want to shoot 9mm or .22 out of it, you can, just have the 5.56 upper in your safe some place as to 'readily' convert back to 5.56. REGARDLESS of current weapon's configuration, to change the weapon's classification (from pistol to rifle) it DOES constitute a remanufacture. Example: One of the above poster's asked a question about his SIG 556 Pistol and wanting to make it a SBR... You can indeed do that, but you MUST engrave your information on the receiver or barrel of the weapon (use the receiver that way you can change the barrel out at will and not have to engrave another bbl) because YOU are remanufacturing the item. YOU are now the manufacturer of the device NOT Sig Saur. IF you could get Sig Saur to Form 2 the gun (as a 07 Manufacturer) then no engraving would be required, but it would require a Form 3 to a dealer then a form 4 to you. (Or Form 4 directly to you if you live in the same state as Sig Saur's registered address). SS is WAY to busy to do this, so they wont. Besides It's MUCH easier to engrave your info on the receiver, file the Form 1, and go that route. |
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Posted: 5/14/2009 11:38:58 AM EDT
[#30]
I just put in as many calibers as I could ever imagine using, even though it is going to be a dedicated 9mm, I just like giving myself options.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2009 12:29:05 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm registering one of Denny's old model Lower Receivers with the Global Tactical rollmark, but made by Stag Arms for him. Box 4a says to put the name and location of the original manufacturer. Do I put Stag Arms; Denny's/GTS; or both?
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Posted: 5/18/2009 12:33:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Once a lower is approved and engraved for a SBR can it be used with a non SBR upper?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2009 2:17:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By FB3:
Once a lower is approved and engraved for a SBR can it be used with a non SBR upper? Yes. That's what I am doing. I have a 16" middy & instead of dropping an additional 300-400 on another lower, I just assume put that money toward my SBR upper. Later on I plan on getting a new lower for the 16" after I've paid the SBR upper off. |
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Posted: 5/19/2009 6:03:55 AM EDT
[#34]
EITorito,
Thanks, that would make sense, but remember who we are dealing with here! I just got started on establishing a trust, so will get the project moving in the future. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2009 7:25:23 PM EDT
[#35]
How many fingerprint cards are required per NFA item? I'm guessing 2 cards, but I can't remember since the last time I did an SBR.
Thanks, Sean |
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Posted: 6/4/2009 9:19:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By SeanK1ng:
How many fingerprint cards are required per NFA item? I'm guessing 2 cards, but I can't remember since the last time I did an SBR. Thanks, Sean Two fingerprint cards Two applications (Form 1, 4, etc.) One 5330.20 One check One set of any supporting documentation (Trust, corporate charter, etc.) |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2009 9:22:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Thanks Tony. Somehow I missed that there were 4 pages to this thread. I didn't see it answered on page one and I guess I wasn't paying attention to there being more. Hopefully, I didn't ask the same question someone already asked.
My apologies if that was the case. Sean |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2009 10:44:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Ok - new to the class 3 thing. I have a few questions. I’m sure some will be stupid, but here goes.
Is there a required size of font for the engraving? Can you own a lower and short barreled upper legally as long as you don’t put then together? Thanks, ST |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2009 10:54:47 PM EDT
[#39]
And another question. In filling out the form 1, can I just use my first name initial or does it have to be the whole name?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2009 5:21:57 PM EDT
[#40]
So I guess the font can be any size?
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2009 7:54:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By ScubaTexas:
So I guess the font can be any size? This is what I found from the ATF NFA Handbook: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/ Chapter 7 Section 7.4 The identification of firearms. 7.4.1 Serial numbers. Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm. The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch. From what I can tell (please correct me if I'm wrong) they only have written requirements for the serial number. All other information needs only to be legible. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:32:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Thanks GT, I starting to think no one reads these post anymore.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2009 9:15:07 PM EDT
[#43]
No problem, ScubaTexas. I'm glad I could help you out.
Maybe you'll be able to help me with my question: I'm planning on registering a Stag-15 lower as an SBR which is currently stamped caliber 5.56. I'm planning on initially building it as a 300 whisper / 300/221 and engraving the upper (and all other uppers assembled for it in the future)with the caliber only. I currently have no plans on ever building a SBR 5.56 (though I'll be listing it as one of the possible calibers on the Form 1 just in case). All other required information (Trust Name, City, State) will be on the lower. Does anyone know if there would be any legal problem with having the engraver remove the existing caliber stamp from the lower receiver, as long as the upper or barrel was stamped with the caliber, to avoid having conflicting information on the gun? |
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Posted: 6/17/2009 9:25:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By GTvaportrail:
I'm planning on registering a Stag-15 lower as an SBR which is currently stamped caliber 5.56. I'm planning on initially building it as a 300 whisper / 300/221 and engraving the upper (and all other uppers assembled for it in the future)with the caliber only. I currently have no plans on ever building a SBR 5.56 (though I'll be listing it as one of the possible calibers on the Form 1 just in case). All other required information (Trust Name, City, State) will be on the lower. Does anyone know if there would be any legal problem with having the engraver remove the existing caliber stamp from the lower receiver, as long as the upper or barrel was stamped with the caliber, to avoid having conflicting information on the gun? ATF does not require you to engrave the caliber on a Form 1'd SBR –– the original host-gun manufacturer's caliber engravings are sufficient, even if they are not the caliber listed on your Form 1. The Form 1 must only match the initial configuration of the SBR. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2009 6:31:39 AM EDT
[#45]
ATF does not require you to engrave the caliber on a Form 1'd SBR –– the original host-gun manufacturer's caliber engravings are sufficient, even if they are not the caliber listed on your Form 1.
The Form 1 must only match the initial configuration of the SBR. Thanks Tony K, I think I'm good to go now. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2009 7:40:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ScottyPotty]
[#46]
On a form 1 suppressor with a trust what do you put in line 4A (my name or trust name) and what do I put in 4H?
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/25/2009 9:51:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Stan_TheGunNut]
[#47]
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
On a form 1 suppressor with a trust what do you put in line 4A (my name or trust name) and what do I put in 4H? This is my understanding: If you're going the trust route, the trust is the maker. So in 4A, put the trust name. I have never put anything in 4H. Other parts of the form require caliber, length, serial number, etc. That said, I have never manufactured a silencer on a Form 1. Someone else may be able to offer better (or more correct) advice. You could also call the ATF and ask them. I suggest you go to www.silencertalk.com. They have a forum there dedicated to people who like to build their own silencers. I'm sure someone there could answer your question to your satisfaction. Please post back here and let us know what you find out. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/25/2009 12:05:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By Stan_TheGunNut:
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
On a form 1 suppressor with a trust what do you put in line 4A (my name or trust name) and what do I put in 4H? This is my understanding: If you're going the trust route, the trust is the maker. So in 4A, put the trust name. I have never put anything in 4H. Other parts of the form require caliber, length, serial number, etc. That said, I have never manufactured a silencer on a Form 1. Someone else may be able to offer better (or more correct) advice. You could also call the ATF and ask them. I suggest you go to www.silencertalk.com. They have a forum there dedicated to people who like to build their own silencers. I'm sure someone there could answer your question to your satisfaction. Please post back here and let us know what you find out. Thanks for the help - I have registered over at silencertalk but its been about a week now with no email. I will update with an answer once I get one. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/25/2009 12:13:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
On a form 1 suppressor with a trust what do you put in line 4A (my name or trust name) and what do I put in 4H? UP DATE I just called the NFA - here is what they told me. Line 4A = Trust Name Line 4H = Trust Name, Location I should have called earlier it would have save me hours looking this up..... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2009 1:49:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Well hope all your advised is correct, just mailed my form 1 off.
Do have one question. On engraving, does it have to be the whole first name or can you use you first name initial? |
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