Does anyone know who makes the best replica civil war cannons? I'd be looking for a rifled 10 pound Parrot or 3 Inch Ordnance rifle full sized. Also who has the best prices?

Marshall Steen is local too me but he is expensive and cuts corners by using ash instead of white oak in his carriages and cast iron barrels. I'd prefer steel if possible or at least a steel liner.

This gun would be intended to shoot.

This I have to read.

Dixie Gun Works

Not for those on a limited budget.....

http://trailrockordnance.com/steel-cannon-barrels/

Have dealt with Steve quite a bit and can highly recommend him. Paulson Brothers Ordnance used to make a fine steel rifle, but they no longer list such. I've heard they still make them and heard they don't, so dunno. Might be worth keeping an eye on the used market, though.

Word of warning, though, I'm not sure white oak is even a possibility anymore, for the trail, at least. Not one of mine have oak trails. Cheekpieces, yes, but not trails. Of all the others I've seen I know of 2 that do. I'm sure that if it can be done, the cost will be... noticeable.



Cpt. Redleg

Capt_Redleg

What is a reasonable price to expect to pay for a new one?

tl:dr version: I'd plan on not much less than $10k.

Tricky to really answer. They may be bigger, but cannon are like most guns on the market. Prices and quality can vary widely.

When you say "new", I presume you mean modern made and complete enough to fire. I also presume you mean full scale, not miniature. I would expect to pay about $10k, maybe 9 for such. Now, that would likely be "used" but recently made. One of the more common examples of rrepro rifled artillery that actually is rifled would be a 3" Parrott rifle made out of a naval 3" gun barrel on a proper field carriage, and many of these are pretty good. Oh, and there's a place in Idaho that was making 1841 12lb howitzer barrels out of surplus 105mm howitzer barrel sections. Historically odd, but pretty cool, and that guy knew what he was doing in terms of safety and metal fab. No steel rifled 12lb howitzers ever existed, but they looked great and I wouldn't have been worried about pulling the lanyard on one from a standpoint of safety. Reenactors, much maligned and often times rightly so, are not a horrible resource for reproduction artillery. Many of those guys are actually very knowledgeable, and, since they have a use for old style artillery but people leave that hobby, they often know of cannons for sale that may not be advertised anywhere.

If you mean actually brand new, like "still has the tags on it" new, the barrel would probably be about $8k and up, potentially WAY up depending on what you want, and the carriage would cost about $7-8k IF you mean a field carriage. If you just want to fire a cannon at a target a ways off and have firm level ground from which to fire the gun, a navy type carriage, actually I think the term is "truck" if the navy guys are correct, could probably be used and would cost quite a bit less. A Parrott or ordnance rifle would be historically dubious mounted to such, I don't think the navy used the smaller rifles much if at all, but it could be workable. Off the top of my head, though, I don't know of a source for that type of carriage. Good ones, that is, not just decorative. Naval gunnery generally isn't something I know a great deal about, I'm afraid.

And with either carriage your new with the tags piece would require a ram/sponge, a thumbstall, a vent pick, a lanyard (probably) and a worm. Oh, and a mandrel of some sort about 1/4" under bore size to form cartridges with, ammo being a topic unto itself I won't get into that here. Suffice to say most folks make them out of foil and you'll need a mandrel to do it. Figure about $400 total for those. You'd also need those if your used but recently made cannon didn't include them.

You'd do well to have a box of some sort to hold implements and ammunition. Depending on your plan it may not be strictly necessary, though. An authentic limber figure $3k, but again, depending on your goal, a surplus 105mm ammo box can work well enough and those don't cost any 3 grand. They also aren't terribly waterproof but can be made to be, if that matters to you.

You'll also want to decide HOW you're going to fire it. Friction primers, the repros of which had earned my disdain but do seem to have improved recently, are I THINK about $5 a piece. I threw in the towel on authenticity on all of mine and installed a cannon lock (about $30 at Dixie gun works) and had vent liners installed along with them (machinist friend turned them out for me for free, but they resemble and can be made from a bored out hex bolt of appropriate length and strength) and fire all mine with 209 shotgun primers. For either of those, you'll need the above mentioned "probably" lanyard. I don't want to get into quills and slowmatch because they're more confusing than what I've already spoken of and because I don't like them anyway. Or, finally, you COULD just use green fuse if this is something you're interested in for just yourself mostly and not because you're giving spot-on demos of exactly how they used to do it backinnaday.

There may well be some finer points and/or details I've left out or forgotten, and if you've any by all means feel free to ask.

If you're serious about this, or even if you're just interested in older cannons generally, as others have mentioned get to the GBO cannon forum. HUGE source of knowledge, as well as sometimes conflicting opinions. lol


Cpt. Redleg

Thanks for that information!

Yes by new I meant a replica that is unfired.

I would want a fully rifled 10 pound Parrot Rifle or 3 Inch Ordnance rifle. I would prefer the barrel to be steel (although I know it is not period correct) or at least high grade iron with a steel liner. I would want a period correct carriage.

Are you saying that something like this can be had for around $10,000?

Thanks!

It CAN for that cost be done, yes. BUT it won't necessarily be quick and may depend on luck. Also, again, it would be a "used" gun, analogous, I suppose to "LNIB-unfired" or "safe queen" in small arms terminology. As an example, last spring, a person I don't know with a group I sort of knew in Missouri had a complete 1861 Parrott rifle setup, that is gun, limber, limber chest, implements and a trailer for $10k. Essentially, he'd had it for a few years but the group was shrinking rather than growing, so it had stayed stored had never been fielded or, he said and I'm inclined to believe him, fired. He decided it was time to part with it rather than have it continue to just sit and take up space. I seriously considered it myself, but I already have an 1863 Parrott and having the 2 versions just to illustrate the minor differences seemed borderline lunatic even to me. This was a better than average deal mind you, but it also wasn't entirely unique. I recall something quite similar sans trailer about 2 years ago over in Ohio. Though that one was an ordnance rifle, not a Parrott.

So yes, it CAN be done for as little as $10k for a fullscale rifle. People buy them for various reason and then sometimes sell them unfired for various reasons. It can and does happen, and often $10k seems sort of the defacto starting point, or settle for, price. Key as with most things is to keep your eyes open and be ready to strike when the right deal is found, such as the above or, oh, maybe when some guy dies and his hipster douche kids find dads cannon and dunno what the hell they got, don't like it, don't want it, and sell dad's repro bronze cannon for significantly less than 1/20th its actual value because it takes up too much space in the garage, they don't know where to sell it, they think it's illegal because CANNON and they think they're going to prison for having it at all, and it's <gasp> a GUN (the horror!) and besides, just think of all the hair gel and asparagus water you can buy with $3000!  

If bought new, I doubt it could be done for $10k. Maybe, possibly, but I doubt it, and if it could be, it would probably be a case of an order that was made for someone who made the deposit and then didn't follow through on the rest. I've seen that a few times, too. Actually ordering one new would probably be closer to $15k or so, and probably that wouldn't include any implements.


Also with a rifle, I'm not sure I've ever seen one that was iron with a rifled liner. Probably could be done, maybe has been done, but I can't recall seeing such. Might be worth asking Hern, the company that makes most of those type barrels, if it's possible. They used to cast around customer supplied liners, so they might be willing to cast around a rifled liner.

When I get back home I'll see if I can't scare up some of my links for various repro artillery groups where some selling occurs. I haven't been in "buy" mode for a while and I'm afraid I don't have them memorized.



Cpt. Redleg

I recomend going GBO and join in on the cannon board , it is really the only place to learn safley.

With an investment and piece that large you are going to need alot of questions answered GBO is the place
And a crew .

Gary

What is GBO exactly?

It's a forum of all things older style artillery. Spectacular resource!

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/88-blackpowder-mortar-cannon-sponsored-seacoast-artillery.html



Cpt. Redleg

cpt. RedLeg

Did you build your carriage or purchase it? If you built it, would you mind if I ask you a question? I also posted this on the cannon forum but you may be a more immediate source of quality information.

I am planning to build a #1 Field Carriage to eventually accommodate either a 3 inch Ordnance Rifle or a 10 pound Parrot rifle barrel that I will purchase from Trail Rock Ordnance.

I will be ordering the correct blue prints next week. In the mean time I have found a great source of white oak and I might go ahead and purchase some so I can seal then ends and allow it to start the drying process.

My question is, if you were buying lumber for the trail, what dimensions should I purchase? Also what dimensions for the trunion plates and the axial piece? Keeping in mind that I obviously need room to draw the parts out and then work them down.

Thanks!

Sorry for the delay. Immediate source indeed! Sorry about that. I don't remember to get here too often, I'm afraid.

The only carriage I've built myself was a pack carriage for the mtn. howitzer, which doesn't readily translate to anything useful for a No. 1 field carriage. I'd have to go to the shed with a tape measure to get actual dimensions on a No. 1 or 2, and then speculate on what size a piece of lumber would be needed to make it. By the time I do that, one of the folks at GBO would likely have answered from memory, assuming they haven't already! Those guys are good.

If you've a source of oak, that's awesome! I wasn't sure oak even existed in large enough pieces to make a carriage anymore, at least the trail.

You planning on making the whole thing sans tube?


Cpt. Redleg