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Posted: 12/11/2016 11:41:26 AM EDT
As  a muzzle loading long gun newb I picked up a TC "Hawken" rifle only to find out it is a poor copy of the real deal.  So I have a few questions.

What defines a correct original/clone Hawken style rifle?

Where is the best place to learn more about them?

Is there a way to correct or defarb a TC?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 12:10:09 PM EDT
[#1]
like any reproduction firearms they will not be up to the standards of the originals primarily that they are mass produced. they are not hand made. They will be similar in style, and form but the detail will not be there.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 12:17:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
As  a muzzle loading long gun newb I picked up a TC "Hawken" rifle only to find out it is a poor copy of the real deal.  So I have a few questions.

What defines a correct original/clone Hawken style rifle?

Where is the best place to learn more about them?

Is there a way to correct or defarb a TC?

Thanks!
View Quote

 They were an adaptation of the Pennsylvania, Kentucky long rifles. They were short barreled, big caliber rifles developed to deal with the bigger game found west of the Mississippi. They were built short to carry on horseback. Most mass produced have the "look" and function of the originals.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 12:36:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Not a BP guy - but I found this site.  There is a description of the original hawkens rifles and kits that are supposed to be faithful to the original design.  The Hawken Shop
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 7:09:59 PM EDT
[#4]
If you really want to know just what a real Hawken is then see if you can acquire a copy of James Beard's work.........."Hawken Rifles"............or the followup "Fifteen years in the Hawken load'>

Photos of for real ones, pics of the Hawken clan themselves and minute data on the guns themselves.


As was stated, the gun was an evolutionary successor to the Penna. longrifles and was specifically adapted to the west of the fur trapping era.


You might also check the NMLRA's website.



Correct that to read John D. Baird............"Hawken Rifles, the Mountain Mans Choice" and "Fifteen years in the Hawken Lode"..............................Beard is incidentally a cooking author whose book on American cooking is a classic and very readable.........lot of history and reference to the market hunting days......worth a read if you get a chance.

Far as "re-farb" goes, several co's used to offer iron additions that let the TC product somewhat resemble the original.........unless you knew what a real one looked like.......best copies now are likely from Pedersoli.....Personally I wouldn't try to dress one of the Hawken in name only versions up.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:03:09 PM EDT
[#5]
There was a lot of variation in the type.

As noted above it was a half stock rifle with a caliber of at least .50 and .53 or .54 was regarded as being even better. The barrel was generally 33" to 36" long and incorporated an under rib to support the ram rod in front of the stock.  Unlike the modern replicas the furniture on a Hawken was usually iron, but in some cases the nose cap was pewter. There were almost always two slotted cross keys holding the barrel in the stock. Most Hawkens had a double set trigger.   The stocks were usually maple with a little bit of a pot belly in the forearm and the butt had a straight comb while the heel was usually 1/4" to 3/8" longer than the toe.  Patch boxes were not a requirement on a Hawken, just an option.

The closest commercially available replica to the traditional is probably the Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

Another option since you have a T/C Hawken is to replace the furniture with iron furniture from the Hawken Shop for around $60.  You can also get a new 98% inlet stock from Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply in several grades of curly maple or on cherry or walnut for around $145 for their lowest grade maple to $310 for their highest grade maple, including shipping.

So for around $200 you could get your T/C into much more authentic Hawken form with a fairly plain curly maple stock, or you could spend a little more and get some really nice wood for it as well.  
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 10:55:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Guys thanks for the info.  

Dogrunner.....thanks for those titles and tips.  

DakotaFal.  Thanks or the info on the rifles and where to get parts to upgrade my TC.  $200 isn't bad and would get me close enough to engage in one of the shooting sports.  However I ight be further ahead to just go ahead and sell it and upgrade the Great Plains Rifle.  

Has anyone built one of the GPRs?  Product info says " This is an unassembled kit and requires minor inleting and metal finishing" but goes on to list all this work.

Stock needs to be inletted for the barrel, lock assembly, trigger guard and assembly.
Stock needs to be sanded and finished.
Barrel needs to be draw filed and finished.
All the steel fittings require some form of metal finish.
Detailed instructions are included.
Kit includes an introductory manual on muzzle loading rifles, pistols and shotguns.

How hard is it?
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 2:20:21 PM EDT
[#7]
It's not all that hard.

Draw filing may or may not be needed depending on who made the barrel.  It's only needed if there are still rough machine marks on the barrel. Getz, Green Mountain and Rice made barrels generally do not need any filing at all.  

Most folks have reported that draw filing isn't needed on the Lyman kit, but there have been some notable exceptions and I suspect it may be due to different barrel suppliers.

Once any major machine marks are gone you just sand it with 120 grit emery paper on a sanding block to keep the flats flat and the edges straight.  120 grit is all you need if you are browning or 320 to 400 if you are rust bluing the barrel, as the resulting surface oxidizes better and wears better.  With both a file and the emory paper/sanding block the approach is the same - use a long, steady, constant pressure motion (draw) down the barrel so that you remove the metal evenly along the entire length and evenly from each barrel flat.

You have a few options for finishing the metal:

1) Browning.    

Once you've finished the polishing process, clean the outside with denatured alcohol, mineral spirits or a commercial degreaser like Simple Green (provided you rinse it thoroughly).  Be sure to apply a couple coats of oil to the bore so that it does not rust during the multi-day process and plugging the muzzle isn't a bad idea. Hang the barrel muzzle down from the breech plug or a lock screw hole to keep the browning solution from getting in the bore.  

You can get a browning solution from a number of sources and they all work the same.   Apply thin coats of the browning solution to the entire outside of the barrel, but don't try to brown the muzzle.  You want even coats (which is one reason you need to completely and thoroughly degrease the metal), then let it hang there until you get a thin coat of rust. The goal is to evenly rust the barrel without pitting.  Once you have a light coat of rust you want to polish off the loose scale leaving just a little reddish brown color.  If the rust is heavy, then #000 or #0000 steel wool will work nicely.   If the rust is light, then a coarse cloth or a rough paper shop towel will work fine.  When using a cloth or paper towel, rub the barrel down until no more loose rust rubs off on it. One thing to remember is that you'll be repeating this several times and you want to keep the barrel surface grease free.  That means degreasing your steel wool with a thorough wash in hot soapy water, to with Gun Scrubber, or with simple green, and the rinsing it with warm water and drying it on paper towels to soak up any remaining oils suspended in the water.  You'll also want to use nitrile gloves to prevent finger prints and my preference is to degrease again between applications of the browning solution with denatured alcohol. I don't use simple green as it is an alkaline based cleaner and it requires extensive rinsing to get it out of all the crevices in the metal.  Alcohol just evaporates.    

After you've carded it and degreased it, apply another coat of the browning solution and repeat the process as needed until you have the desired color.  The first coat may take a day or so to produce light rust.  After that you'll see results in a few hours and you can scale and repeat the process several times a day.  The time needed will vary based on where you live.  In western SD where aa humid day was 30% humidity, it took longer and having it over a tub of water helped the local humidity to speed the process.  Here in NC, 100% humidity is common and things rust much faster all on their own.   Plan on about 3 days start to finish, to get a deep brown finish.

When you have the color and texture you want, you need to neutralize the browning agent by washing the outside of the barrel with a baking soda solution. One tablespoon of baking soda per cup of hot water works fine.  Then rinse the barrel with hot tap water until it has fully heat soaked, and apply a liberal coat of a penetrating oil like WD-40 to displace the water and help stop any further rusting.   Stopping the process completely may take a few days as the browning agent leaches out of the metal, so you'll want to rub the barrel down daily for the first few days a good gun oil.  

At this point you can also ensure the muzzle and face of the breech plug are polished bright and them oil them with a with a good rust preventing gun oil. Penetrating oils are not rust preventative as they tend to evaporate and leave a clean and mostly oil free surface that readily rusts, so don't rely on something like WD-40 for long term rust protection.

After the rusting has stopped, you can a) apply the gun oil of your choice to the barrel, b) apply linseed oil on the outside of the barrel, or c) use paste wax on the barrel to help protect the surface from further rust.  

The other metal parts are finished in exactly the same way, except usually no filing, and given they are often softer steel, they tend to rust/brown a little faster.

2) Rust Bluing.

Rust bluing uses a similar process of metal prep, degreasing, applying the solution and carding.   The differences are that you'll polish to a finer finish with 320 grit aluminum oxide sand paper for a matte finish and 400 to 600 grit for a more polished finish.  It's a bit of a trade off as a 320 finish will give more depth of color, while 600 gives a glossier finish.  The other critical difference is that you'll need to suspend the part in boiling water for 10 minutes to convert the rust to a black oxide before carding.   That requires a boiling tank long enough to hold the barrel as well as a heat source.   The boiling time is a critical as you need to give it enough time to covert the rust.  You also need to get the part out of the water and blown dry without the water puddling and drying on it as that will produce a spot.

In short, it's a bit harder, more equipment intensive and it's less period correct.

3) Cold bluing.

This is done with just a cold bluing solution, but the metal prep and degreasing is the same.   It works well on mild steel parts and heating the part sometimes helps the blue take on harder steel parts.  Again, getting it and keeping it degreased is key.  Unlike rust bluing you don't want the solution in contact with the part more than a minute or so per pass.  You're basically wiping it on and carding it with the cloth at the same time.  After you are done let it sit a day or so before oiling it, and then don't use a rust preventative oil.  You can get nice finish with cold blue but it doesn't tend to hold up as well.  


Stock

In-letting the stock isn't hard on a Lyman as it is already at least 90% in-letted. In essence you're just removing enough wood to get the lock, tang and barrel to slip into the stock if that's not already the case.   A spotting compound on the metal that transfers to the wood can help you identify the high spots.  

I prefer them to be a bit snug so I can get a nice "looks like the wood grew on the metal" look.  If it's been in-letted so there are gaps, I'd send the stock back, and there have been  few reports of that happening.

Lyman tends to inlet their GPRs too deep around the tang with the idea that people are going remove the extra wood to shape the rifle to their preferences in the toe, wrist and forearm areas.  You can straighten the tang and fill under the tang if you prefer a fuller wrist.  The stock is pretty full in the forearm and toe so you can take off a fair amount of wood for a trimmer look if you prefer.  However, you'll probably need to remove a lot around the toe of the stock to fit the butt plate.   Helpful hint here - fit the butt plate and other parts to the stock before you finish the metal parts.  

Wood seems to vary on the Lyman kits from pretty plain to spectacular walnut.  One advantage of doing your own is that the factory wood tends to be stained way too dark and with a kit you shape and finish the stock the way you want.  

Finish sanding also isn't hard just take care not to gouge out the softer wood in the grain and take care not to round off your edges, etc.   It's mostly common sense, patience and taking care with your sanding block to keep things even.

Finishing can be done with tung oil or boiled linseed oil, applying a coat and letting it dry, and then repeating.   Every few coats I knock it back down almost to bare wood with 0000 steel wool (no need to degrease here). This prevents excessive build up on top of the grain until you've I've all the low spots in the grain.  Once the grain is filled you can do a few more coats and again be careful to use even pressure and not cut all the way through the finish to the wood, particularly on edges, corners and high spots.  If you do it's not the end of the world, you just need to re-coat and build it back up again.  

Once you are done you can control the gloss of the finish with 0000 steel wool and/or a rubbing compound after your final coat.  

The biggest complaint with the Lyman kits is the screws are a bit brittle and will break if you don't pre-drill the holes and wax or soap them the first time you install them.  That's actually more common sense than a flaw on Lyman's part as pre-drilling the holes and lubricating the screws should be a given.

Lyman seems to have copied the early T/C lock and it can have some adjustment problems.  However, you can also just drop a later T/C lock in it.

------

If assembling a kit sounds too involved, you can find Lyman Plains Rifles for around $450 in like new/excellent condition, which is less than a new kit will cost you (about $475-$500).

New rifles will run you around $550, so it's not much more than the kit, but finding one in stock is sometimes difficult as they seem to be popular.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 1:28:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Dakotafal...Thanks!!  That is some great info especially on the metal finishing.  Wood l have some experience with, having done finish carpentry for more than 20 years but I have zero experience with metal working.   This sounds like a pretty good winter project.  I am leaning towards the flintlock version.  Is the lock left in the white on a flintlock?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 12:42:48 AM EDT
[#9]
while the T/C Hawken is not historically accurate, T/C should be given a major credit to the BP industry for being one of the top companies to keep BP hunting alive. in the 70's,80's and 90's they were the best factory produced BP hunting rifles available.

you really only had 3 options, T/C for quality, Lyman was fairly rare and CVA that usually was cheaply made but functional.

if you seriously hunted, you wanted a T/C Hawken or Renegade. I got my Renegade kit when I was 12, in 1982.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:28:09 PM EDT
[#10]
I agree.  The 4th option were muzzleloaders marketed by Traditions.   They were in the same ball park as CVA, arguably better in some models.


Link Posted: 12/23/2016 10:47:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I agree.  The 4th option were muzzleloaders marketed by Traditions.   They were in the same ball park as CVA, arguably better in some models.
View Quote


thank you for bringing up the Traditions. I have helped assemble a couple of Traditions and they seemed to be well made. as good or better than the CVA in what I saw. I never got the chance to fire them. I always wondered if the CVA and Traditions BP rifles were made by the same company in Spain.
Link Posted: 12/29/2016 9:05:49 AM EDT
[#12]
I can say the newer traditions are better quality then the older CVA. I picked up a Traditions made Bass pro shops branded hawken new in the box for 125 bucks at a gun show a little while back.

It is really a cheap version of the hawken rifle, with a 1-66 twist. This thing will shoot some amazing groups with a patched round ball.

Like others have said, the Lyman GPR and GPH are the closet thing to an original hawken you can get in a production gun. I have a Great Plain Hunter and love it. The black steel furniture is really different and makes it look really authentic.



Link Posted: 12/29/2016 11:09:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's not all that hard.

Draw filing may or may not be needed depending on who made the barrel.  It's only needed if there are still rough machine marks on the barrel. Getz, Green Mountain and Rice made barrels generally do not need any filing at all.  

Most folks have reported that draw filing isn't needed on the Lyman kit, but there have been some notable exceptions and I suspect it may be due to different barrel suppliers.

Once any major machine marks are gone you just sand it with 120 grit emery paper on a sanding block to keep the flats flat and the edges straight.  120 grit is all you need if you are browning or 320 to 400 if you are rust bluing the barrel, as the resulting surface oxidizes better and wears better.  With both a file and the emory paper/sanding block the approach is the same - use a long, steady, constant pressure motion (draw) down the barrel so that you remove the metal evenly along the entire length and evenly from each barrel flat.

You have a few options for finishing the metal:

1) Browning.    

Once you've finished the polishing process, clean the outside with denatured alcohol, mineral spirits or a commercial degreaser like Simple Green (provided you rinse it thoroughly).  Be sure to apply a couple coats of oil to the bore so that it does not rust during the multi-day process and plugging the muzzle isn't a bad idea. Hang the barrel muzzle down from the breech plug or a lock screw hole to keep the browning solution from getting in the bore.  

You can get a browning solution from a number of sources and they all work the same.   Apply thin coats of the browning solution to the entire outside of the barrel, but don't try to brown the muzzle.  You want even coats (which is one reason you need to completely and thoroughly degrease the metal), then let it hang there until you get a thin coat of rust. The goal is to evenly rust the barrel without pitting.  Once you have a light coat of rust you want to polish off the loose scale leaving just a little reddish brown color.  If the rust is heavy, then #000 or #0000 steel wool will work nicely.   If the rust is light, then a coarse cloth or a rough paper shop towel will work fine.  When using a cloth or paper towel, rub the barrel down until no more loose rust rubs off on it. One thing to remember is that you'll be repeating this several times and you want to keep the barrel surface grease free.  That means degreasing your steel wool with a thorough wash in hot soapy water, to with Gun Scrubber, or with simple green, and the rinsing it with warm water and drying it on paper towels to soak up any remaining oils suspended in the water.  You'll also want to use nitrile gloves to prevent finger prints and my preference is to degrease again between applications of the browning solution with denatured alcohol. I don't use simple green as it is an alkaline based cleaner and it requires extensive rinsing to get it out of all the crevices in the metal.  Alcohol just evaporates.    

After you've carded it and degreased it, apply another coat of the browning solution and repeat the process as needed until you have the desired color.  The first coat may take a day or so to produce light rust.  After that you'll see results in a few hours and you can scale and repeat the process several times a day.  The time needed will vary based on where you live.  In western SD where aa humid day was 30% humidity, it took longer and having it over a tub of water helped the local humidity to speed the process.  Here in NC, 100% humidity is common and things rust much faster all on their own.   Plan on about 3 days start to finish, to get a deep brown finish.

When you have the color and texture you want, you need to neutralize the browning agent by washing the outside of the barrel with a baking soda solution. One tablespoon of baking soda per cup of hot water works fine.  Then rinse the barrel with hot tap water until it has fully heat soaked, and apply a liberal coat of a penetrating oil like WD-40 to displace the water and help stop any further rusting.   Stopping the process completely may take a few days as the browning agent leaches out of the metal, so you'll want to rub the barrel down daily for the first few days a good gun oil.  

At this point you can also ensure the muzzle and face of the breech plug are polished bright and them oil them with a with a good rust preventing gun oil. Penetrating oils are not rust preventative as they tend to evaporate and leave a clean and mostly oil free surface that readily rusts, so don't rely on something like WD-40 for long term rust protection.

After the rusting has stopped, you can a) apply the gun oil of your choice to the barrel, b) apply linseed oil on the outside of the barrel, or c) use paste wax on the barrel to help protect the surface from further rust.  

The other metal parts are finished in exactly the same way, except usually no filing, and given they are often softer steel, they tend to rust/brown a little faster.

2) Rust Bluing.

Rust bluing uses a similar process of metal prep, degreasing, applying the solution and carding.   The differences are that you'll polish to a finer finish with 320 grit aluminum oxide sand paper for a matte finish and 400 to 600 grit for a more polished finish.  It's a bit of a trade off as a 320 finish will give more depth of color, while 600 gives a glossier finish.  The other critical difference is that you'll need to suspend the part in boiling water for 10 minutes to convert the rust to a black oxide before carding.   That requires a boiling tank long enough to hold the barrel as well as a heat source.   The boiling time is a critical as you need to give it enough time to covert the rust.  You also need to get the part out of the water and blown dry without the water puddling and drying on it as that will produce a spot.

In short, it's a bit harder, more equipment intensive and it's less period correct.

3) Cold bluing.

This is done with just a cold bluing solution, but the metal prep and degreasing is the same.   It works well on mild steel parts and heating the part sometimes helps the blue take on harder steel parts.  Again, getting it and keeping it degreased is key.  Unlike rust bluing you don't want the solution in contact with the part more than a minute or so per pass.  You're basically wiping it on and carding it with the cloth at the same time.  After you are done let it sit a day or so before oiling it, and then don't use a rust preventative oil.  You can get nice finish with cold blue but it doesn't tend to hold up as well.  


Stock

In-letting the stock isn't hard on a Lyman as it is already at least 90% in-letted. In essence you're just removing enough wood to get the lock, tang and barrel to slip into the stock if that's not already the case.   A spotting compound on the metal that transfers to the wood can help you identify the high spots.  

I prefer them to be a bit snug so I can get a nice "looks like the wood grew on the metal" look.  If it's been in-letted so there are gaps, I'd send the stock back, and there have been  few reports of that happening.

Lyman tends to inlet their GPRs too deep around the tang with the idea that people are going remove the extra wood to shape the rifle to their preferences in the toe, wrist and forearm areas.  You can straighten the tang and fill under the tang if you prefer a fuller wrist.  The stock is pretty full in the forearm and toe so you can take off a fair amount of wood for a trimmer look if you prefer.  However, you'll probably need to remove a lot around the toe of the stock to fit the butt plate.   Helpful hint here - fit the butt plate and other parts to the stock before you finish the metal parts.  

Wood seems to vary on the Lyman kits from pretty plain to spectacular walnut.  One advantage of doing your own is that the factory wood tends to be stained way too dark and with a kit you shape and finish the stock the way you want.  

Finish sanding also isn't hard just take care not to gouge out the softer wood in the grain and take care not to round off your edges, etc.   It's mostly common sense, patience and taking care with your sanding block to keep things even.

Finishing can be done with tung oil or boiled linseed oil, applying a coat and letting it dry, and then repeating.   Every few coats I knock it back down almost to bare wood with 0000 steel wool (no need to degrease here). This prevents excessive build up on top of the grain until you've I've all the low spots in the grain.  Once the grain is filled you can do a few more coats and again be careful to use even pressure and not cut all the way through the finish to the wood, particularly on edges, corners and high spots.  If you do it's not the end of the world, you just need to re-coat and build it back up again.  

Once you are done you can control the gloss of the finish with 0000 steel wool and/or a rubbing compound after your final coat.  

The biggest complaint with the Lyman kits is the screws are a bit brittle and will break if you don't pre-drill the holes and wax or soap them the first time you install them.  That's actually more common sense than a flaw on Lyman's part as pre-drilling the holes and lubricating the screws should be a given.

Lyman seems to have copied the early T/C lock and it can have some adjustment problems.  However, you can also just drop a later T/C lock in it.

------

If assembling a kit sounds too involved, you can find Lyman Plains Rifles for around $450 in like new/excellent condition, which is less than a new kit will cost you (about $475-$500).

New rifles will run you around $550, so it's not much more than the kit, but finding one in stock is sometimes difficult as they seem to be popular.
View Quote


L & R makes a lock that will drop right in on the Lyman GPR.  I got mine from Track.
Link Posted: 1/23/2017 6:56:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 1/23/2017 10:38:04 PM EDT
[#15]
I agree ,shoot it as is . I won many matches in the early 80s with a TC renagade.
The TC is the best gun to learn the drill with because you wont have any issues with the gun . Thats saying something because the whole loading proceed is tedious.  You can and will screw it all up when you forget to put powder in .....and you will forget .

BUT the gun gun is solid , reliable , and won't  fail you .

After you figure out what period you like slap down 1500 bucks or so on kit or custom rifle ..... 2500 bucks !

No matter what you spend , your Thompson will never be a proper Hawkin .
Gary
Link Posted: 2/13/2017 9:37:55 PM EDT
[#16]
For massed produced guns, the Lyman Great Plains Rifle is a pretty decent attempt at the Hawken look.
Link Posted: 4/10/2017 11:09:03 PM EDT
[#17]
If you want an absolute Hawken "clone," go to the Hawken Shop. If you want "dang close without selling one of the kids," get the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. If you want drop-dead reliability, with the option of buying extra barrels in different calibers, run your TC 'til it drops. It won't drop, ever, but you can try. I had to replace the barrel on my early-80s kit rifle because when I was young and stupid, I used a fiberglass ramrod and managed to ruin a perfectly good bore. I replaced the TC tube with a Green Mountain item and have loved it. I have no real idea how many rounds I've sent downrange with mine, but I used to save the end flap off the Hornady round ball boxes and hang them on a nail in the gun room. Last I counted, there were 21 flaps, and that was 20 years ago. I've never had one mechanical issue with the rifle in all that time.

Insofar as "defarbing" the TC into  a Hawken..... well.... you can't defarb a Ford into a Chevy. The Hawken Shop used to sell a kit containing a wax-cast steel nose cap, trigger guard and buttplate that could be fitted to a TC Hawken or Renegade, and required a decent skill level to accomplish. For the cost and trouble, you're better off getting a GPR kit.

The folks at TC didn't know what else to name their new muzzleloading big game rifles, and the only period maker's name they could come up with was "Hawken." Warren Center even admitted that his model for the TC Hawken was a New England small game rifle, just scaled up to handle serious calibers.

The obvious answer here is keep the TC, add the GPR.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 9:08:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Concur with Ajumbo.  You can get a very good replica made or settle for a Lyman Great Plains.  Remember, while there was only one Hawken Shop, there were many gunmakers who assembled rifles of that genre.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 10:42:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Was heavy in the Mountain Man Rendezvous scene in the late '70 & early '80's. Will concur with the above that the T/C "Hawkens" is a solid rifle though not the best for an 'authentic period" piece. The coil springs that drive the purist nuts will provide a lot more positive & reliable ignition. They can be gussed up to appear more authentic if you so choose. Had one, and vouch that it is a solid gun. The Lyman Plains Rifle is more authentic appearing out of the box and are solid shooters also. The Traditions/CVA kits are a good gateway drug into the DIY rifle world, don't ask how I know.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:06:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Was heavy in the Mountain Man Rendezvous scene in the late '70 & early '80's. Will concur with the above that the T/C "Hawkens" is a solid rifle though not the best for an 'authentic period" piece. The coil springs that drive the purist nuts will provide a lot more positive & reliable ignition. They can be gussed up to appear more authentic if you so choose. Had one, and vouch that it is a solid gun. The Lyman Plains Rifle is more authentic appearing out of the box and are solid shooters also. The Traditions/CVA kits are a good gateway drug into the DIY rifle world, don't ask how I know.
View Quote
Coil springs are such a PITA to work on.  Removing the spring is easy, but unlike a normal V-spring, it's not so easy to put them back on.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:28:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:49:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My advice is to shoot your TC Hawken as is.  Mine is incredibly accurate with .530 patched round ball.  It is not precisely period correct, but certainly the metallurgy, springs and trigger are far better than could be had in the 1840s.
View Quote
This  Lot's of respect in flintlock hunting and competition.
Link Posted: 5/26/2017 12:53:45 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever bawled for beads. I lodge-poled her at Deadwood Creek, and traded her for a Hawken gun
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever bawled for beads. I lodge-poled her at Deadwood Creek, and traded her for a Hawken gun
Better version:

Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads. I lodge-poled her at Deadwood Creek, and traded her for a Hawken gun. But don't get me wrong; I loves the womens, I surely do. But I swear, a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the Almighty ever made on this earth, and I can find no sign on it
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