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Posted: 11/30/2014 11:18:10 PM EDT
http://ultimatemuzzleloader.com/
After missing out on muzzleloader season all my life I spent my black friday money on this. It does require 4473 because it uses a unmodified remington 700 short action but I'm ok with that. 250 gr projectile at 2400 fps 
Can't wait to get it in! Reasons for giving in to muzzleloader hunting: -Can't dog hunt during muzzleloader season so its nice and peaceful out ( I prefer to hunt un pressured deer) -One of the counties I hunt in requires you to be positioned atleast 8' off the ground if hunting with centerfire rifle. With a muzzleloader with this range I can hunt from the ground and stalk with the benefits of centerfire rifle. -I get the benefit of the extended season -I got fed up missing out while my buddies continued to hunt after archery season went out |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 11:34:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Don't be too surprised if in a few years the laws change. Here's the regulations I have to adhere to for Muzzle loading hunting.
They call it "Primative hunting" for a reason. 
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Posted: 11/30/2014 11:46:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah, you guys got it rough out west. They do make an iron sighted model but your primer restrictions would make it moot point as well as the visible cap rule. I plan to shoot loose powder (blackhorn 209) I get my primitive on during archery season. I use a 47# recurve 
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Posted: 11/30/2014 11:53:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, there are so many more archery hunters here, you just get an A tag, my Lyman GP rifle is more primitive than the compound I use for elk.
That Remington does look like a nice rifle. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 12:02:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be too surprised if in a few years the laws change. Here's the regulations I have to adhere to for Muzzle loading hunting. They call it "Primative hunting" for a reason.
That's as it should be! Glad to see more places going to "primitive" after people screwed the intent of "muzzleloader" and came out with ultra-moderns that happen to load from the front. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 12:43:34 AM EDT
[#5]
The game departments are making big money on muzzleloader license sales. The sporting retail stores are selling the modern guns and generating nice sales taxes. There are no shortage of deer and not many places with limited licenses. The eastern states will not change to what the western states are doing.
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Posted: 12/1/2014 12:53:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The game departments are making big money on muzzleloader license sales. The sporting retail stores are selling the modern guns and generating nice sales taxes. There are no shortage of deer and not many places with limited licenses. The eastern states will not change to what the western states are doing. This. and I make no illusions that I am 'primitive hunting' |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 10:25:39 AM EDT
[#7]
the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply.
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Posted: 12/1/2014 10:48:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. and I make no illusions that I am 'primitive hunting' Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The game departments are making big money on muzzleloader license sales. The sporting retail stores are selling the modern guns and generating nice sales taxes. There are no shortage of deer and not many places with limited licenses. The eastern states will not change to what the western states are doing. This. and I make no illusions that I am 'primitive hunting' Again this. Here in NY it is an extra $15 for a muzzleloader tag. Multiply that times however many hunters there are here and its ALOT of money. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 12:38:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply. The new remington 700 based muzzleloader has a different breech setup than the first gen remington 700 muzzleloader. The reviews I have read indicate no blowback at all into the receiver with the new priming system. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 11:57:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The new remington 700 based muzzleloader has a different breech setup than the first gen remington 700 muzzleloader. The reviews I have read indicate no blowback at all into the receiver with the new priming system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply. The new remington 700 based muzzleloader has a different breech setup than the first gen remington 700 muzzleloader. The reviews I have read indicate no blowback at all into the receiver with the new priming system. hmmmmm |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 7:03:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be too surprised if in a few years the laws change. Here's the regulations I have to adhere to for Muzzle loading hunting. They call it "Primative hunting" for a reason.
I wish that's how it was here. They just changed our muzzleloader season to an "alternative methods" season. You can now use pistols, which translates to scoped .308 contender pistols. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:55:17 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:49:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply. My brother-in-law has one. The tip of the firing pin broke and it took him two seasons to figure out why it'd fire at the range but never in the field--he was smacking that 209 with essentially a 1/4" flat-faced punch. He was out pouring diesel into the fire can so he could torch the thing when we finally noticed that the nipple was gone.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 12:03:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My brother-in-law has one. The tip of the firing pin broke and it took him two seasons to figure out why it'd fire at the range but never in the field--he was smacking that 209 with essentially a 1/4" flat-faced punch. He was out pouring diesel into the fire can so he could torch the thing when we finally noticed that the nipple was gone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply. My brother-in-law has one. The tip of the firing pin broke and it took him two seasons to figure out why it'd fire at the range but never in the field--he was smacking that 209 with essentially a 1/4" flat-faced punch. He was out pouring diesel into the fire can so he could torch the thing when we finally noticed that the nipple was gone. the first gen 700ml's are known turds |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 12:14:00 AM EDT
[#15]
I have a first gen 700ML.
I do have the 209 primer ignition system on it, although I do have a tough time keeping the breech plug and bolt components without corrosion. Part of my problem is I haven't switched to the cleaner triple 7 powder yet, as I still have some old school Pyrodex Pellets left. I'm glad they came out with something newer but I'd really like to see one that I could use some smokeless powder in. ETA 200gr charges? Damn! My shoulder has enough with the 150gr loads. |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 1:03:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote History300 gr. @ 2400fps is better 
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Posted: 12/21/2014 12:50:54 PM EDT
[#17]
From what I am reading, the 300 grain projectiles are printing the best groups. I'm waiting till after hunting season to put a scope on it and do some load testing
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Posted: 12/21/2014 12:56:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a first gen 700ML. I do have the 209 primer ignition system on it, although I do have a tough time keeping the breech plug and bolt components without corrosion. Part of my problem is I haven't switched to the cleaner triple 7 powder yet, as I still have some old school Pyrodex Pellets left. I'm glad they came out with something newer but I'd really like to see one that I could use some smokeless powder in. ETA 200gr charges? Damn! My shoulder has enough with the 150gr loads. Savage went away from smokeless because of the liability and its understandable. If smokeless is what you want look no further bad bull muzzleloaders but be prepared to have sticker shock! 275 grainers at 3100 fps. I'm fairly certain I don't want to be on either end of that load 
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Posted: 12/21/2014 9:26:21 PM EDT
[#19]
I have a buddy that builds them, I know they aren't cheap.
No more than I actually hunt with it, I think I'll keep my gen 1 Remington until something on it breaks that I can't fix. |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 11:30:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply. No, the limiting factor of the 700ML is that it was bought and used by people who had zero interest in and understanding of black powder muzzleloading firearms. To most, it was a chance to prolong hunting season. I saw a lot of corroded 700MLs at the range at the beginning of hunting season that people had left loaded AND dirty all year. No wonder the bolt assembly corroded. The barrel did too. I've met some whose gun wouldn't fire, even with recapping. Turns out the powder in the chamber had fouled over the year while it stood in a corner loaded. Most people also didn't follow directions and disassemble the bolt assembly, because, "it's too hard and besides, who ever disassembles the bolt assembly on a regular 700?"  I can only imagine what their regular hunting guns look like.
The Remington 700ML works best when used by somebody who is a BP enthusiast who knows you have to keep the gun clean, using traditional methods (soap/hot water/ non-petroleum based lube), and not putting Hoppe's down the barrel (if at all)... |
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Posted: 1/6/2015 9:22:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, the limiting factor of the 700ML is that it was bought and used by people who had zero interest in and understanding of black powder muzzleloading firearms. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
the limiting factor in the 700 ML series is the corrosion of the bolt assemply. No, the limiting factor of the 700ML is that it was bought and used by people who had zero interest in and understanding of black powder muzzleloading firearms. Agreed |
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Posted: 1/13/2015 12:37:20 AM EDT
[#22]
The main spring on the original needs to be swapped out too. I had some issues where it went click, but did not set off the 209 primer. I put a woffle extra power spring in and have not had any more problems.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 10:03:00 PM EDT
[#23]
100gr by weight Blackhorn209 yielded (3) shot 1.5 moa groups today in 46 degree weather. I think the volume conversion would be 143 grains bh209 by volume. Recoil was similar to 300 win mag. The smoke plume was less thick than a pyrodex plume and dissipated almost immediately. The difference in felt recoil between a 95gr (by weight) load and a 100gr (by weight) load was negligible.
I was fairly recoil weary from shooting 308's all day as well as sighting in a new scope on the remington muzzleloader before I sat down to do some accuracy testing and I feel that the gun could probably shoot a little tighter as in 1 moa groups if I were fresh in the saddle because a few of those groups were two shots touching. Not gonna lie, this gun kicks hard. Next weekend, I will shoot ore groups and hook the chrono up. All in all, I am pleased and look forward to hunting with it |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 11:18:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be too surprised if in a few years the laws change. Here's the regulations I have to adhere to for Muzzle loading hunting. They call it "Primative hunting" for a reason.
If you play your cards right, the regs are not that big of a deal. A side lock can be every bit as reliable, quick to load and deadly as an inline. Get a side lock with a decent leaf spring lock (L&R makes the nicest locks) and put a musket cap nipple on it. Cheap locks suck ass. Musket caps are larger, easier to handle and burn hotter. Only use real black powder.There IS no substitute for the real thing. Real black powder ignites much easier than substitutes....of course, no one carries it...that's no excuse as you can order up to 50 lbs at a time. The real stuff cleans up easily with soap and water and is less corrosive than pyrodex. Only use natural animal fat (TC Bore Butter is very nice too) for lube, never use petrochemical greases or gun oil. Patched road balls are very accurate and easy to load. Thompson Center makes a little plastic thing called a quick shot...holds your powder on side and a pre patched ball in front of a plastic starter rammer for a very quick field reload. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 11:45:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you play your cards right, the regs are not that big of a deal. A side lock can be every bit as reliable, quick to load and deadly as an inline. Get a side lock with a decent leaf spring lock (L&R makes the nicest locks) and put a musket cap nipple on it. Cheap locks suck ass. Musket caps are larger, easier to handle and burn hotter. Only use real black powder.There IS no substitute for the real thing. Real black powder ignites much easier than substitutes....of course, no one carries it...that's no excuse as you can order up to 50 lbs at a time. The real stuff cleans up easily with soap and water and is less corrosive than pyrodex. Only use natural animal fat (TC Bore Butter is very nice too) for lube, never use petrochemical greases or gun oil. Patched road balls are very accurate and easy to load. Thompson Center makes a little plastic thing called a quick shot...holds your powder on side and a pre patched ball in front of a plastic starter rammer for a very quick field reload. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't be too surprised if in a few years the laws change. Here's the regulations I have to adhere to for Muzzle loading hunting. They call it "Primative hunting" for a reason.
If you play your cards right, the regs are not that big of a deal. A side lock can be every bit as reliable, quick to load and deadly as an inline. Get a side lock with a decent leaf spring lock (L&R makes the nicest locks) and put a musket cap nipple on it. Cheap locks suck ass. Musket caps are larger, easier to handle and burn hotter. Only use real black powder.There IS no substitute for the real thing. Real black powder ignites much easier than substitutes....of course, no one carries it...that's no excuse as you can order up to 50 lbs at a time. The real stuff cleans up easily with soap and water and is less corrosive than pyrodex. Only use natural animal fat (TC Bore Butter is very nice too) for lube, never use petrochemical greases or gun oil. Patched road balls are very accurate and easy to load. Thompson Center makes a little plastic thing called a quick shot...holds your powder on side and a pre patched ball in front of a plastic starter rammer for a very quick field reload. Great post, pv74!
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Posted: 2/3/2015 11:54:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Picked one up a few weeks ago and was not thinking it would live up to its name.
After a few range sessions, it is simply outstanding, and lives up to its name and performance expectations. I was using their 250 accu-tip and 4 triple seven pellets and got 2395 fps and was a little under MOA with a Leupold 3-9 muzzle loading scope. This was a well thought out idea made by someone else and Remington purchased the rights to manufacture them. I thought so much of its performance, it now has a Jewell trigger and bolt has been sent to PPR for bolt work. This will be my last muzzle loader, and I have had many to include smokeless models, and this smokes them all! The reason I like muzzle loaders is you get out a few weeks earlier and I have killed my largest deer during this season, as it occurs during prime rut most years. With the trajectory, it is point blank to 225 yards and then hold over to 300 is reasonable. May provide a better review later in the year, buy one and you will enjoy it! |
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Posted: 3/7/2015 8:36:58 PM EDT
[#27]
chrono'd the cold bore shot today at 56 degrees F and got 2,327 fps.
100gr. (by weight) BH209 = 143gr. (by Volume) BH209 250gr. polymer tipped barnes (remington re-branded) with remington green sabot Groups still holding at 1.5 moa 3-shots with this load. All in all I am pleased with the gun and probably won't adjust the load up or down to see if I can shrink the group. I was hoping for the advertised 2,400 fps and I'm sure I can get it with more powder but the recoil is serious with this load and I'm calling it good. |
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