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Posted: 8/18/2014 12:10:48 PM EDT
Hi everyone,

I recently purchased a nice used t/c hawken .50 muzzle loader. Upon getting it home, I realized there was a ball stuck in the chamber. I removed the nipple and flushed vigorously with penetrating oil, then tried to use a pulling rod to get it out. No joy, the rod just broke. (eta- the ball puller screw, not the rod itself)I haven't had any luck trying to remove the breech plug either. Does anyone know of a smith who could help me with this? Alternatively, id buy a new barrel if anyone has one they are looking to sell. Thanks in advance for any help!
Link Posted: 8/18/2014 1:19:07 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't think you need a smith for that job

Did you use a Ball puller? (whoops, see that you did)
It looks like a wood screw that you jam into the ball and screw in.
One hint, take a cleaning jag and patch and really (excessively) lube up the rifling before trying to pull it out  
And remember that the rifling will turn the ball as it comes up so it may unscrew itself off the puller if you hold the rod too tight.  In that case just ram it back down to the bottom and start again.  
Link Posted: 8/18/2014 1:30:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Sounds like really stubborn "dry ball". Try compressed air through the touch hole and loads of lube. The more dangerous approach is pushing grains of powder through the touch hole and trying to blow the round out (note: this could also blow up your barrel if it is truly stuck).
Link Posted: 8/18/2014 1:31:12 PM EDT
[#3]
The TCs use a special design wrench to remove the breach plug.  There are a bunch of muzzle loading websites and forums. Suggest you check them to find a place to take it.  OH, There is a place in Michigan called Flint and Frizzen owned by a fellow named Bruce.  He has a website.  Not real close to you but you could talk to him.
Link Posted: 8/18/2014 5:01:38 PM EDT
[#4]
You need this for the end of the rod



how did you break the rod?

Also..those barrels seem to be hard to find and expensive..I have a brand new one in the box..its White Mtn Carbine 1/2 round 1/2 octagone.
Link Posted: 8/18/2014 6:11:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You need this for the end of the rod

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m_DNBnofQUsmTnrw7v9K4Dw.jpg

how did you break the rod?

Also..those barrels seem to be hard to find and expensive..I have a brand new one in the box..its White Mtn Carbine 1/2 round 1/2 octagone.
View Quote


I thought op broke a ball puller already?
Link Posted: 8/18/2014 6:35:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The TCs use a special design wrench to remove the breach plug.  There are a bunch of muzzle loading websites and forums. Suggest you check them to find a place to take it.  OH, There is a place in Michigan called Flint and Frizzen owned by a fellow named Bruce.  He has a website.  Not real close to you but you could talk to him.
View Quote


What he said.
I made my own "wrench" when i converted a cap into a flint-lock.  You can use it if you want to.
Best bet though- compressed air.  It'll spit that thing out like a kid with a brussel sprout.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 12:31:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I thought op broke a ball puller already?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need this for the end of the rod

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m_DNBnofQUsmTnrw7v9K4Dw.jpg

how did you break the rod?

Also..those barrels seem to be hard to find and expensive..I have a brand new one in the box..its White Mtn Carbine 1/2 round 1/2 octagone.


I thought op broke a ball puller already?


Yes, I did already break one of those. Thanks for the input everyone. No joy with compressed air. I can't seem to figure out what the hell the previous owner did to this thing. I'll report back when (if) i figure this thing out......
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 1:10:36 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm a gunsmith.

Suggest you try the compressed air method first.  Unlike my classmate, keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction; preferably a dirt embankment.  That ball can pop out and destroy something - like my a bowl that belonged to my classmate's wife.  Needless to say, his wife wasn't exactly thrilled about her gift having a hole shot into it.  He was for a while.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:31:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes, I did already break one of those. Thanks for the input everyone. No joy with compressed air. I can't seem to figure out what the hell the previous owner did to this thing. I'll report back when (if) i figure this thing out......
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need this for the end of the rod

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m_DNBnofQUsmTnrw7v9K4Dw.jpg

how did you break the rod?

Also..those barrels seem to be hard to find and expensive..I have a brand new one in the box..its White Mtn Carbine 1/2 round 1/2 octagone.


I thought op broke a ball puller already?


Yes, I did already break one of those. Thanks for the input everyone. No joy with compressed air. I can't seem to figure out what the hell the previous owner did to this thing. I'll report back when (if) i figure this thing out......


I think the previous owner ramrodded the wrong caliber ball down the barrel. What type of ammo was he using? Lead ball?
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:55:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think the previous owner ramrodded the wrong caliber ball down the barrel. What type of ammo was he using? Lead ball?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need this for the end of the rod

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m_DNBnofQUsmTnrw7v9K4Dw.jpg

how did you break the rod?

Also..those barrels seem to be hard to find and expensive..I have a brand new one in the box..its White Mtn Carbine 1/2 round 1/2 octagone.


I thought op broke a ball puller already?


Yes, I did already break one of those. Thanks for the input everyone. No joy with compressed air. I can't seem to figure out what the hell the previous owner did to this thing. I'll report back when (if) i figure this thing out......


I think the previous owner ramrodded the wrong caliber ball down the barrel. What type of ammo was he using? Lead ball?


he may have rammed a .54 cal ball down a .50 barrel but man, he wouldve had to beat the shit out of that and I dont think a wood ram rod wouldve held up.

Also, he may have doubled up the "wadding",,the lubed up patch that the ball sits into to make the solid seal down the barrel. Also he may have used a patch and ball and didnt lube up the bore at all. Dont forget there is probably powder in there, with the spray you put in, its probably not an issue, but whatever you do DONT PUT ANY HEAT to that barrel.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 10:30:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


he may have rammed a .54 cal ball down a .50 barrel but man, he wouldve had to beat the shit out of that and I dont think a wood ram rod wouldve held up.

Also, he may have doubled up the "wadding",,the lubed up patch that the ball sits into to make the solid seal down the barrel. Also he may have used a patch and ball and didnt lube up the bore at all. Dont forget there is probably powder in there, with the spray you put in, its probably not an issue, but whatever you do DONT PUT ANY HEAT to that barrel.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need this for the end of the rod

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m_DNBnofQUsmTnrw7v9K4Dw.jpg

how did you break the rod?

Also..those barrels seem to be hard to find and expensive..I have a brand new one in the box..its White Mtn Carbine 1/2 round 1/2 octagone.


I thought op broke a ball puller already?


Yes, I did already break one of those. Thanks for the input everyone. No joy with compressed air. I can't seem to figure out what the hell the previous owner did to this thing. I'll report back when (if) i figure this thing out......


I think the previous owner ramrodded the wrong caliber ball down the barrel. What type of ammo was he using? Lead ball?


he may have rammed a .54 cal ball down a .50 barrel but man, he wouldve had to beat the shit out of that and I dont think a wood ram rod wouldve held up.

Also, he may have doubled up the "wadding",,the lubed up patch that the ball sits into to make the solid seal down the barrel. Also he may have used a patch and ball and didnt lube up the bore at all. Dont forget there is probably powder in there, with the spray you put in, its probably not an issue, but whatever you do DONT PUT ANY HEAT to that barrel.



I don't think boiling water is going to touch off powder (if any).
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 10:35:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Boiling water might work,,itll heat up (expand the barrel) and should soften the lead ball.. And then try the compressed air or figure out how to get something there to pull it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 10:59:39 AM EDT
[#13]
this is what my wrench looks like.  You also get an idea of how it works from this pic.
If you hit a dead-end just let me know you are welcome to use it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 11:01:02 AM EDT
[#14]
What it does is take off the whole breech plug.  I.E.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 10:00:09 PM EDT
[#15]
If C02 doesn't work, borrow that wrench.  Wrap the barrel in electrician's tape to protect it from marring.
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 11:22:00 AM EDT
[#16]
No need to take the breech plug off.

TC's nipples are threaded 1/4-28 .

Get a 1/4-28 grease zerk fitting.  Screw it in in place of the nipple, take your handy dandy grease gun, hook it up to the grease zerk fitting and start pumping.  It will push the ball and and fill your barrel with a nice thick coating of grease.  Then clean the grease out.

Link Posted: 8/23/2014 12:32:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Grease nailed it!! Ball vs. Grease gun.. Better living through Hydraulics
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 7:13:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No need to take the breech plug off.

TC's nipples are threaded 1/4-28 .

Get a 1/4-28 grease zerk fitting.  Screw it in in place of the nipple, take your handy dandy grease gun, hook it up to the grease zerk fitting and start pumping.  It will push the ball and and fill your barrel with a nice thick coating of grease.  Then clean the grease out.

View Quote


Holy Shit!! Why am I always the last one who hears about this?
Link Posted: 9/1/2014 6:27:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Unscrew nipple, apply air hose.
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 12:29:14 AM EDT
[#20]
I was given a CVA Missouri rifle.  It too was loaded with a ball.  I tried the bullet puller with no luck.  Used the grease gun method as described above.  Worked great.  Just went to Harbor Freight to get a tube of grease and a 6mm fitting, hooked up and pumped grease in the barrel.  Tomorrow I'll clean out the barrel.

Thanks for the advice on the grease gun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2014 11:00:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No need to take the breech plug off.

TC's nipples are threaded 1/4-28 .

Get a 1/4-28 grease zerk fitting.  Screw it in in place of the nipple, take your handy dandy grease gun, hook it up to the grease zerk fitting and start pumping.  It will push the ball and and fill your barrel with a nice thick coating of grease.  Then clean the grease out.

View Quote


you Sir are brilliant. I have never heard of anyone doing this but it is a helluva an idea.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 12:28:12 PM EDT
[#22]
One day the op will come back and update us.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 1:06:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Bah! Sorry, OP sucks. I totally forgot to update.

Ok, so I got the breech plug off. Lemme tell you, that was no easy feat. Summbitch was corroded worse than you can believe. The outside of the barrel assembly was beautiful, but the previous owner did not clean the inside sufficiently. The corrosion was so awful that the ball almost looked like it had grown into the sidewall of the barrel. Pulling from behind I was able to get the ball out, but the corrosion is so bad I think the barrel is probably toast. I found a new barrel assembly and bought it because I just don't want to take the chance of a catastrophic failure.

So here's the lesson to be learned: black powder is corrosive as hell, and it's a really bad idea to shoot a muzzleloader a bunch, reload it, and then stick it on the shelf for 10 years.
Link Posted: 9/8/2014 2:36:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bah! Sorry, OP sucks. I totally forgot to update.

Ok, so I got the breech plug off. Lemme tell you, that was no easy feat. Summbitch was corroded worse than you can believe. The outside of the barrel assembly was beautiful, but the previous owner did not clean the inside sufficiently. The corrosion was so awful that the ball almost looked like it had grown into the sidewall of the barrel. Pulling from behind I was able to get the ball out, but the corrosion is so bad I think the barrel is probably toast. I found a new barrel assembly and bought it because I just don't want to take the chance of a catastrophic failure.

So here's the lesson to be learned: black powder is corrosive as hell, and it's a really bad idea to shoot a muzzleloader a bunch, reload it, and then stick it on the shelf for 10 years.
View Quote



They need to be cleaned and lubed up after each session..I use Muzzleloading cleaner but you can use hot soapy water and then I coat inside of barrel with Bore Butter.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 9:44:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Scrub out the bore.  Shoot it and see if it will group.  A pitted bore can still be accurate.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 11:27:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Scrub out the bore.  Shoot it and see if it will group.  A pitted bore can still be accurate.
View Quote


This is what I would do..^^^^^^^^^^^^
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