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Posted: 7/4/2014 7:05:29 PM EDT
My dad is having trouble finding all of the supplies he needs in order to start shooting his new reproduction Remington 1858 New Army revolver.

I don't really know very much about black powder, but I'd like to help out. What powders, etc. etc. do y'all recommend, and where can he get some?

I understand black powder is more volatile than smokeless as well, how feasible is shipping from an online vendor?
Link Posted: 7/4/2014 7:24:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Note for the lead balls, some manufacturers make the guns to use a .451 ball and others use a .454 ball.  You can get you need from Dixie Gun Works.  Make sure to read up on these things before trying to use it.

Sorry, if the question is only about black powder, few places carry it now.  Visit some muzzle loading forums to find a group near you and ask them.
Link Posted: 7/4/2014 7:44:34 PM EDT
[#2]
He'll want a supply of pure lead round balls, of a diameter to barely shave a ring of lead off the ball, when rammed into the cylinder with the loading lever.  When you measure your cylinder and figure out what size balls you need , LEE Precision has inexpensive molds which work fine.

He'll want 2F or 3F black powder.  I like Goex.  Pyrodex P will work OK.  When I shoot up my last bit of Pyrodex, I'll switch to real black (Goex) for keeps.

He'll want #11 or #10 percussion caps.  One size will be tight, one will be loose (likely, anyway).  If you come away with the loose fitting ones, give 'em a little pinch between your fangers before you put them on the nipples.  There are some treatises on the internet which you may stumble across, as you research this subject.

I use Crisco as a bullet lube, or even some store bought CVA brand stuff in a squeeze tube.

Cleanup is water based.  I completely disassemble mine at the end of the shooting day, rinse out w/ water, brush the bore and all chambers w/ water, dry, re-oil and reassemble.

Those weird grooves on the rod your cylinder rotates on, are for holding natural grease lubricants(meaning "non-petroleum" based), lest fouling tie up your cylinder.

Carry is 5 loaded chambers, hammer down on empty and uncapped 6th chamber.  Don't be careless, this is old fashioned tech, with no safety but the one between your ears.


BOTTOM LINE:  Here's the best link I've seen on the subject.
http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps3.html

His bullet lube recipe is what I use most.
Link Posted: 7/6/2014 1:31:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 7/8/2014 10:52:09 AM EDT
[#4]
www.trackofthewolf.com
Link Posted: 7/10/2014 11:48:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Don't be lured to he darkside of synthetic pellets.  Find real black powder (probably 4F).  You can order it off the internet.
Link Posted: 7/10/2014 5:34:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't be lured to he darkside of synthetic pellets.  Find real black powder (probably 4F).  You can order it off the internet.
View Quote


Black Powder is the way to go. However 4F is too fine, it's for flintlock pans.

3F is appropriate for cap and ball pistols in 44 or smaller calibers. 2F can be used.

Shipping black powder can be done, but there will be a hazmat fee.

The 1858 is a really fun BP pistol to shoot. Make sure you get some trigger time in as well.


Link Posted: 7/10/2014 11:56:56 PM EDT
[#7]
I buy a lot of my BP stuff from Cabelas.
Link Posted: 7/11/2014 12:07:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Cleanup is much easier with a 50/50 mix of Balistol and water.  



Good choice with the 1858.  






Link Posted: 7/14/2014 12:59:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Ruger recommends a .457 round ball for the old army.  A .451 can roll out of the chamber and a .454 may move forward with recoil.

3f is the norm for black powder or you can use any of the synthetic bp's.  I've used 4f and 2f in the old army and they shoot it fine.  The difference is the burn rate.
Link Posted: 7/20/2014 1:49:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Search the internet for my longtime posts:
"Proper Use of a Cap and Ball Revolver"
"So You Want a Cap and Ball Revolver?"

I, Gatofeo, began shooting cap and ball revolvers about 1970. These posts contain much of what I have learned over the decades.
You will also find a homemade black powder bullet and wad lubricant named after me: Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant. Its recipe is within these posts and also online separately. A very good wad, patch and bullet lubricant based on a 19th century factory recipe.

As for your questions:
1. Purchase .454 balls. Forsake .451 balls, they are often too small to make a good seal in the chamber. A .454 ball is not so oversized that it's difficult to seat in a chamber made for .451 balls. Years ago I postulated that the slightly larger ball created a wider bearing band for the rifling to grip, and may improve accuracy. I believe this to be true, but hard to prove because each gun is an individual and has profound likes and dislikes.

2. Use black powder of FFFG grade if you can get it. If not, use FFG grade.  FFFFG (4FG) grade is too fine. Pyrodex P works okay, but the more accurate propellant is black powder.
Be wary of Hodgdon 777 powder. Visit the Hodgdon website to see how much is recommended in your revolver. While Pyrodex P is designed to be used in volume measurement equal to black powder, Hodgdon is not.
If you use a 30 gr. powder measure with FFFG or Pyrodex P, you'll be okay. Use a 30 gr. measure with Hodgdon 777 and you're at or over a maximum load already.
Hodgdon 777 is more energetic than black powder or Pyrodex.
Too many Slackjaws today snort about "Lawyer Loads" and stuff as much 777 in their revolvers as it will hold. Avoid such people; they are morons. If they dispute me or Hodgdon, ask them what ballistics lab they used to get their pressure measurements.

3. A hard, 100% felt wad between the powder and ball will eliminate the need to place grease over the ball after seating. Soak that hard felt wad in melted Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant, SPG, or Lyman Black Powder Gold for best use. Or soak wads in melted lard, bacon grease, a mix of Crisco and beeswax, or any other natural grease. That greased wad will keep the bore cleaner longer.

4. A thin layer of Crisco or other soft, natural grease along the sides of the hammer, in the hammer channel cut in the frame, around the pin around which the cylinder pins and other moving parts will keep the revolver firing longer. Black powder and its substitutes create a lot of fouling, compared to smokeless powder. Grease will adhere to the surfaces better than oil and lubricate longer.

5. I can't say whether you'll need No. 10 or No. 11 percussion caps. It depends upon the size of the nipples on your particular revolver. Buy a tin of both. If No. 10 is too small to seat fully on the nipple, set that tin aside and use No. 11 caps. Pinch the caps into an elliptical shape before placing on the nipple. This will provide tension for the cap to cling to the nipple, and prevent its falling off or being dislodged by recoil.
If the No. 10 cap fits closely and fully to the bottom, set the No. 11 caps aside.

6. Before loading, place live caps on each nipple and fire this "blank" charge through the chambers and barrel. This will clear oil, grease, dust and crud from the chambers, substances that may hinder ignition or block it completely. I do this twice, to be sure of a clear channel. Once done, and after firing powder charges and ball, you don't need to do it again.
Remember the caps that wouldn't work well, that you set aside? Use them for clearing the channel.

Modern made Remington reproductions tend to shoot lower than aim at 25 yards, because the front sight is generally taller. This is good. Find the most accurate load for your revolver first, then verrrrrryyyy carefulllllyyy remove a little metal from the top of the sight to bring the balll's point of impact up.
If the group shoots above the target, you need to add metal to the top of the front sight, or verrryyyyy slightlllyyyy remove metal from the square notch in the top of the frame, ahead of the hammer, to bring the ball's point of impact down.
The easiest route is to have a gunsmith install a taller front sight, then genttllyyy remove metal from the top of the sight until the group and sight picture coincide.
But don't touch the sights until you've found the most accurate load.

Don't discount the accuracy or lethality of these revolvers. My Uberti-made Remington .44 will, at 20 yards from the benchrest, put six balls or Lee conical bullets into 1-1/2" inches. Modern revolvers and semi-autos are hard-pressed to shoot that well.
My Kimber 1911 Classic Custom Target .45 can, but not my Browning Hi-power 9mm.

With the purchase of a cap and ball revolver, you expose yourself to all kinds of wild tales about their history, use and maintenance.
Most of the tales are untrue or exaggerated.
For example, there is no historical record of the old-timers carrying extra loaded cylinders. That claim appeared about 20 years ago, and has been repeated until it's become a truth -- an "unsubstantiated truth."
Be wary of Slackjaws who suggest you use a "full load" of 777, or add "just a smidgen" of smokeless powder to each chamber for extra velocity and clean burning.
Cap and ball revolvers cannot withstand the same pressures as modern revolvers. They have no cartridge case to contain pressure. At very high pressure, they are inclined to strip the threads of their nipple and send it back as a missile or in fragments.
The Ruger Old Army is the strongest cap and ball revolver made, but its design limits it to lower pressures than cartridge guns.

Have fun with that cap and ball revolver. If it has a brass frame, don't load it to maximum or the brass frame will be battered by the recoil of the cylinder.
With good loads, it should shoot .454 balls accurately out to 50 yards, perhaps 100 yards in the hands of a marksman.

Welcome to a most fascinating hobby!

-- Gatofeo
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