User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/2/2014 10:48:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I missed that in the movie.
But I don't think its legit. Silk is super thin meaning that it wont grip the rifling as well letting gas seep around the ball. Plus, as fragile as it is it probably wouldn't hold together. Of course, that's just hypothesizing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/2/2014 11:06:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I missed that in the movie. But I don't think its legit. Silk is super thin meaning that it wont grip the rifling as well letting gas seep around the ball. Plus, as fragile as it is it probably wouldn't hold together. Of course, that's just hypothesizing. May or may not grip depending on how tight the bore is in relation to the ball and how thick the silk is. Silk has a very high tensile strength though I would think it may melt away halfway down the barrel considering what happens when you put a match up to a spider web. You'd probably be better off with high thread count thin cotton material. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/2/2014 11:56:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
May or may not grip depending on how tight the bore is in relation to the ball and how thick the silk is. Silk has a very high tensile strength though I would think it may melt away halfway down the barrel considering what happens when you put a match up to a spider web. You'd probably be better off with high thread count thin cotton material. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I missed that in the movie. But I don't think its legit. Silk is super thin meaning that it wont grip the rifling as well letting gas seep around the ball. Plus, as fragile as it is it probably wouldn't hold together. Of course, that's just hypothesizing. May or may not grip depending on how tight the bore is in relation to the ball and how thick the silk is. Silk has a very high tensile strength though I would think it may melt away halfway down the barrel considering what happens when you put a match up to a spider web. You'd probably be better off with high thread count thin cotton material. Silk is not from spider webs. It is from moth caterpillars cocoons . |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/3/2014 2:16:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silk is not from spider webs. It is from moth caterpillars cocoons . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I missed that in the movie. But I don't think its legit. Silk is super thin meaning that it wont grip the rifling as well letting gas seep around the ball. Plus, as fragile as it is it probably wouldn't hold together. Of course, that's just hypothesizing. May or may not grip depending on how tight the bore is in relation to the ball and how thick the silk is. Silk has a very high tensile strength though I would think it may melt away halfway down the barrel considering what happens when you put a match up to a spider web. You'd probably be better off with high thread count thin cotton material. Silk is not from spider webs. It is from moth caterpillars cocoons . |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/3/2014 9:57:57 AM EDT
[#5]
spider webs are as strong as steel, maybe because the silk is slippery... probably just a writer trying to be a show off
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/4/2014 1:12:56 AM EDT
[#6]
I read the book, and I don't recall that happening. Then again, the book is a miserable, agonizing read. Cooper was a lousy writer. How this is a classic is a mystery to me. Regardless, I do recall the scene from the film. I'm in the camp that believes the thinner silk will not grip the rifling as well as Hawkeye's usual patch. Therefore, accuracy will be effected. No way he makes those hits at that range, in that light.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/4/2014 1:26:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read the book, and I don't recall that happening. Then again, the book is a miserable, agonizing read. Cooper was a lousy writer. How this is a classic is a mystery to me. Regardless, I do recall the scene from the film. I'm in the camp that believes the thinner silk will not grip the rifling as well as Hawkeye's usual patch. Therefore, accuracy will be effected. No way he makes those hits at that range, in that light. As one of my college profs said(ma in eng lit and history doctorate in history). The Last of the Mohicans is a classic because of a lack of competition in the era. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/4/2014 10:14:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Just another gun myth started by Hollywood.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/6/2014 8:34:52 PM EDT
[#9]
hollywood sucks
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/6/2014 9:37:20 PM EDT
[#10]
I was under the impression that silk was pretty tough stuff .
I was also of the idea that thickness or thinness of a patch was not a negative or positive thing in itself but for any particular rifle bore and bullet size combination there was a patch that was tight enough to give a good seal but still thin enough to allow loading and shooting without tearing up the patch. The sweet spot is when the fit allows a good seal and forces the ball to grab the rifling but still stays in one piece. With some particular rifle and some particular bullet a thin silk patch might offer best results but a slightly smaller bullet might perform better with a thicker patch. In this historical time frame rifle bores and bullet molds were anything but standard sizes as everything available was more or less hand built . As I tell folks taking my basic pistol class , don't believe anything gun related you see in the movies or on TV |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/7/2014 12:06:47 AM EDT
[#11]
total BS
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/8/2014 12:23:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was under the impression that silk was pretty tough stuff . I was also of the idea that thickness or thinness of a patch was not a negative or positive thing in itself but for any particular rifle bore and bullet size combination there was a patch that was tight enough to give a good seal but still thin enough to allow loading and shooting without tearing up the patch. The sweet spot is when the fit allows a good seal and forces the ball to grab the rifling but still stays in one piece. With some particular rifle and some particular bullet a thin silk patch might offer best results but a slightly smaller bullet might perform better with a thicker patch. In this historical time frame rifle bores and bullet molds were anything but standard sizes as everything available was more or less hand built . As I tell folks taking my basic pistol class , don't believe anything gun related you see in the movies or on TV It is. But it will also burns quickly and completely during ignition. This is why silk was the preferred material for powder bags for muzzleloading artillery. It would burn away completely leaving no smoldering embers. A patch made from silk is most likely not going to survive the trip down the barrel. Just my 2¢. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/18/2014 3:34:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Wouldn't most of the muskets of the time (french and Indian war era) have been smooth bores?
If so then there would be no rifling for the ball to engage anyways. The thinner material may have been the right thickness to hold the ball and powder in place while allowing less friction to slow the shot when firing. If that's the case, would it not be within the realm of possibility to have gained a little distance with the shot? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/18/2014 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldn't most of the muskets of the time (french and Indian war era) have been smooth bores? If so then there would be no rifling for the ball to engage anyways. The thinner material may have been the right thickness to hold the ball and powder in place while allowing less friction to slow the shot when firing. If that's the case, would it not be within the realm of possibility to have gained a little distance with the shot? Muskets and fowlers were not loaded like rifles. Cartridges were common, or powder, shot and wadding. The patching of balls was something unique to the rifle in the period, but is quite common today in the Black powder shooting sports. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/18/2014 11:38:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't most of the muskets of the time (french and Indian war era) have been smooth bores? "Muskets" of the day were smooth bore. However, rifles were also readily available. Smooth bores were preferred for infantry of the time for several reasons, including speed of loading. A long hunter like Nathanial Poe (Natty Bumpo) made his living by hunting and trapping. The utitility of a smooth bore would be of no use to him. He traveled light, he depended on accuracy, he carried one firearm; a long rifle. The average frontier settler was a farmer, and homesteader. He raised crops, and livestock. He supplemented his food stocks with wild game, and fowl. He wasn't a wealthy man, and couldn't afford a collection of firearms. He would be better served with a smooth bore. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/19/2014 5:01:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Muskets" of the day were smooth bore. However, rifles were also readily available. Smooth bores were preferred for infantry of the time for several reasons, including speed of loading. A long hunter like Nathanial Poe (Natty Bumpo) made his living by hunting and trapping. The utitility of a smooth bore would be of no use to him. He traveled light, he depended on accuracy, he carried one firearm; a long rifle. The average frontier settler was a farmer, and homesteader. He raised crops, and livestock. He supplemented his food stocks with wild game, and fowl. He wasn't a wealthy man, and couldn't afford a collection of firearms. He would be better served with a smooth bore. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wouldn't most of the muskets of the time (french and Indian war era) have been smooth bores? "Muskets" of the day were smooth bore. However, rifles were also readily available. Smooth bores were preferred for infantry of the time for several reasons, including speed of loading. A long hunter like Nathanial Poe (Natty Bumpo) made his living by hunting and trapping. The utitility of a smooth bore would be of no use to him. He traveled light, he depended on accuracy, he carried one firearm; a long rifle. The average frontier settler was a farmer, and homesteader. He raised crops, and livestock. He supplemented his food stocks with wild game, and fowl. He wasn't a wealthy man, and couldn't afford a collection of firearms. He would be better served with a smooth bore. Pretty much this. Add in also that rifles of the day tended to cost a fair bit more than a smoothbore fowling-piece (next best thing to a musket, really), what with the extra labor and tooling required to true the bore as much as possible, cut the rifllng, regulate the sights, etc. So unless you needed the precision that a rifle brought (and were willing to accept that you'd be greatly slowing down a possible second shot) and had the extra money, that probably wasn't an option. Just one more reason that most folks of the day--yes, even at Lexington and Concord, and Bunker Hill too--actually had smoothbores, and generally only 1 per family/household, because even those were hand-made and therefore rather expensive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/19/2014 10:09:56 PM EDT
[#17]
And New England of the 1770's did not have a rifle culture. This changes with Morgan's Riflemen being part of the Mohawk Valley garrison, and many ending up mustering out and settling in Schoharie. Nick Stoner, who was a kid musician in the local militia post war becomes a great rifleman and hunter, and he and others like him influence the young Master Cooper........
Meanwhile no one sees fit to tell young Cooper that the Mohicans had changed their name to Stockbridge's, and in reward for their supporting the American cause, they and the Oneida's had been removed to what will become Wisconsin. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2014 4:13:05 PM EDT
[#18]
I don't know about using silk for patches and like t his thread, I've heard lots of opinions but seen no results from actual testing. Michael Mann's movies are usually much more accurate with regards to guns than most other movies. He goes to a lot more trouble than most and the rifle Hawkeye carried in the movie was made for him. Daniel Day Lewis spent months carrying the rifle around in preparation for the movie. And it was a rifle, not a smoothbore musket.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/4/2014 7:51:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Ridiculous ,it would burn away instantly. It takes a good muslin or pillow ticking not to.
Gary |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2014 12:27:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Just a bit late with this, but fella's there's no shortage of silk and muzzle loading rifles..............why doesn't somebody give it a try?
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
