 corrosionguy 
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Posted: 6/4/2012 5:37:20 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
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vengarr
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Joined: May 2005 KY, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2012 6:03:40 PM
Originally Posted By corrosionguy:
I was thinking that barrel lengths did not apply to muzzle loading long guns does anyone no the official stance with the ATF on this reason I ask is I was givin an old cva rifle and the barrel is ruined but the first 12-14" are in a little better shape than the rest so I was thinking of cutting it down and reworking the wood as a project to make a little trapper carbine and have nothing in it but time thanks for the help AFAIK blackpowder muzzle loaders aren't consider firearms, hence, hence not impacted by any gun laws federally. |
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Dave_Markowitz
A little short for a Storm Trooper
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:31:16 PM
The NFA does not apply to muzzleloaders firing non-fixed ammunition. AAMOF, you can buy current production muzzleloading shotguns with barrels under 18", and shoulder stocks to fit Colt 1860 Army revolvers.
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Posted: 6/5/2012 11:05:18 AM
Thanks that is what I was thinking but wanted to check I am thinking this will be a fun little project and look cool but I dont think it will have any practical use but should be fun to play with
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Posted: 6/5/2012 4:32:58 PM
Be sure to check local laws s well. They are generally not considered fire arms, but they are generally considered dangerous weapons and there may be local laws that could apply.
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Posted: 6/5/2012 7:25:23 PM
Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:
Be sure to check local laws s well. They are generally not considered fire arms, but they are generally considered dangerous weapons and there may be local laws that could apply. +1 |
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Posted: 7/13/2012 12:01:27 AM
[Last Edit: 7/13/2012 12:10:09 AM by ARCollector157]
I know this was asked somewhere else but I would like to know. Since BP guns are not considered firearms, would a permanently affixed suppressor (integral) be considered NFA, considering it can not be used on a firearm since it is permanently affixed to the barrel of a bp gun. The atf gave people trouble with paintball silencers because they could be modified to muffle the report of firearms in their supposed tests, but obviously a permanent integral suppressor can not be removable because it is a permanent piece on the bp gun. It could never be used on a firearm at that point. I don't see how it could be breaking any laws by definition.
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TerryC
where the ways cross
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Joined: Feb 2009 GA, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2012 7:56:36 AM
Originally Posted By ARCollector157:
I know this was asked somewhere else but I would like to know. Since BP guns are not considered firearms, would a permanently affixed suppressor (integral) be considered NFA, considering it can not be used on a firearm since it is permanently affixed to the barrel of a bp gun. The atf gave people trouble with paintball silencers because they could be modified to muffle the report of firearms in their supposed tests, but obviously a permanent integral suppressor can not be removable because it is a permanent piece on the bp gun. It could never be used on a firearm at that point. I don't see how it could be breaking any laws by definition. In theory, maybe. But I would think it would be a nightmare to keep clean and choke with fouling very fast. If it could be cleaned without being removed (outer shell integral, baffles come out the front?) then maybe. |
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Posted: 7/15/2012 11:06:21 AM
Originally Posted By corrosionguy:
I was thinking that barrel lengths did not apply to muzzle loading long guns does anyone no the official stance with the ATF on this reason I ask is I was givin an old cva rifle and the barrel is ruined but the first 12-14" are in a little better shape than the rest so I was thinking of cutting it down and reworking the wood as a project to make a little trapper carbine and have nothing in it but time thanks for the help You can about anything with muzzle loaders and cap and ball. 
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Posted: 7/17/2012 2:30:27 AM
That's cool!
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JAD
Law and Order Conservative
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Posted: 7/25/2012 1:14:55 AM
Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:
The NFA does not apply to muzzleloaders firing non-fixed ammunition. AAMOF, you can buy current production muzzleloading shotguns with barrels under 18", and shoulder stocks to fit Colt 1860 Army revolvers. Remember, though, that ATF does not apply the exemption to disguised firearm AOWs- or at least they didn't when I enquired about doing an NAA Companion with an operational wallet holster. |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 4:01:02 PM
Originally Posted By corrosionguy:
Thanks that is what I was thinking but wanted to check I am thinking this will be a fun little project and look cool but I dont think it will have any practical use but should be fun to play with Well, some Frontier gunsmith felt there was a practical use for one. I just bought this today, but I don't know anything about it other than it's a rifled .58 barrel. 
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Posted: 8/4/2012 2:14:20 PM
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Originally Posted By corrosionguy:
Thanks that is what I was thinking but wanted to check I am thinking this will be a fun little project and look cool but I dont think it will have any practical use but should be fun to play with Well, some Frontier gunsmith felt there was a practical use for one. I just bought this today, but I don't know anything about it other than it's a rifled .58 barrel. http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/Hawglegf44/f569f984.jpg That is cool!!!!! |
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Posted: 8/4/2012 3:09:13 PM
Originally Posted By bwanasimba:
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Originally Posted By corrosionguy:
Thanks that is what I was thinking but wanted to check I am thinking this will be a fun little project and look cool but I dont think it will have any practical use but should be fun to play with Well, some Frontier gunsmith felt there was a practical use for one. I just bought this today, but I don't know anything about it other than it's a rifled .58 barrel. http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/Hawglegf44/f569f984.jpg That is cool!!!!! Thanks to a member over at Gunboards.com, it turns out this isn't a Frontier gunsmith job, it's actually an 1842 Austrian Cavalry Musket that was converted to percussion for use by the Union during the Civil War. I'd like to locate the correct buttplate and saddle ring assy for the side of the stock. It's not what I thought it was, but it's still different anyway. |
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JAD
Law and Order Conservative
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Joined: Nov 2006 CT, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:58:02 PM
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Originally Posted By bwanasimba:
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Originally Posted By corrosionguy:
Thanks that is what I was thinking but wanted to check I am thinking this will be a fun little project and look cool but I dont think it will have any practical use but should be fun to play with Well, some Frontier gunsmith felt there was a practical use for one. I just bought this today, but I don't know anything about it other than it's a rifled .58 barrel. http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/Hawglegf44/f569f984.jpg That is cool!!!!! Thanks to a member over at Gunboards.com, it turns out this isn't a Frontier gunsmith job, it's actually an 1842 Austrian Cavalry Musket that was converted to percussion for use by the Union during the Civil War. I'd like to locate the correct buttplate and saddle ring assy for the side of the stock. It's not what I thought it was, but it's still different anyway. Not being a hack-job makes it even cooler. |
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Posted: 8/26/2012 11:59:38 PM
I was thinking about this thread the other day.
I wonder if the ATF would fuss if I rebuilt a cap & ball pistol into a fully automatic machine gun. 
Probably wouldnt work too well since the caps would bind up the cylinder after 2-3 shots |
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Posted: 9/12/2012 11:03:10 PM
The NFA does apply to many muzzleloaders
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Posted: 9/12/2012 11:16:16 PM
Originally Posted By CRC:
The NFA does apply to many muzzleloaders Tell Cabella's that! Baker Cavalry Shotgun |
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Sixgun_Symphony
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Joined: Apr 2002 WA, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2012 6:02:59 PM
Dixie Gun Works is better than Cabela's. Be sure to get their printed catalog. It has a few chapters in back with all kinds of useful information on blackpowder. I like the instrutions on using cigarette papers to make paper cartridges for the percussion revolvers.
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Posted: 9/16/2012 7:45:18 PM
Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:
Dixie Gun Works is better than Cabela's. Be sure to get their printed catalog. It has a few chapters in back with all kinds of useful information on blackpowder. I like the instrutions on using cigarette papers to make paper cartridges for the percussion revolvers. Thanks for reminding me. I haven't ordered a new catalog from them since 1996. I guess it's time. |
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Posted: 9/17/2012 1:00:09 PM
Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:
Originally Posted By CRC:
The NFA does apply to many muzzleloaders Tell Cabella's that! Baker Cavalry Shotgun Percussion and flint ignition are NFA exempt Muzzleloaders that use a 209 primer (most of todays muzzleloaders) are not antiques |
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Posted: 9/17/2012 3:14:54 PM
As far as I know, the rules of 16" minimum rifle barrel and 18" minimum shotgun barrel also apply to muzzleloaders.
I base this on having never seen anything shorter in a muzzleloader –– and factories would offer shorter barrels for easily impressed Slackjaws at ridiculous prices if they could, to be certain. Call your local ATF office if you're unsure. From a pay phone booth at the local 7-11 if you're concerned about phone tracing. The answer may also be online in the ATF site. |
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Dave_Markowitz
A little short for a Storm Trooper
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Joined: Jul 2004 PA, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2012 4:14:54 PM
Originally Posted By Gatofeo: As far as I know, the rules of 16" minimum rifle barrel and 18" minimum shotgun barrel also apply to muzzleloaders. I base this on having never seen anything shorter in a muzzleloader –– and factories would offer shorter barrels for easily impressed Slackjaws at ridiculous prices if they could, to be certain. Call your local ATF office if you're unsure. From a pay phone booth at the local 7-11 if you're concerned about phone tracing. The answer may also be online in the ATF site. This is not true, as long as the gun in question used traditional percussion caps or flint (or matchlock, wheelock, but those are unlikely). You can buy shoulder stocks for percussion revolvers from Dixie Gun Works and Cabela's, and various less-than-18" double shotguns have been available for decades. |
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Posted: 9/17/2012 6:09:49 PM
Originally Posted By Gatofeo:
As far as I know, the rules of 16" minimum rifle barrel and 18" minimum shotgun barrel also apply to muzzleloaders. I base this on having never seen anything shorter in a muzzleloader –– and factories would offer shorter barrels for easily impressed Slackjaws at ridiculous prices if they could, to be certain. Call your local ATF office if you're unsure. From a pay phone booth at the local 7-11 if you're concerned about phone tracing. The answer may also be online in the ATF site. Look 4 posts above your post and you will see a link to Cabella's selling the Pedersoli Baker Shotgun with 12" barrels. |
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Posted: 9/17/2012 7:52:10 PM
(g) Antique firearm (Title 26 United States Code)
The term “antique firearm” means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. |
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