User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 2:15:23 PM EDT
[#1]
I am no authority on this subject, but I can't see any problem.
I have a M1895 Chilean Mauser which was rebarreled to 7.62 NATO. I have shot it with a variety of surplus and a couple of commercial .308 loads. No problems so far. As I understand it, the main difference between 7.62 NATO and .308 is that the .308 brass is thinner. Might be a problem in some machine guns with less than ideal case head support, but shouldn't be a problem in a bolt action. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 2:37:18 PM EDT
[#2]
I have an Izzy Mauser in 7.62. I tapped and put a mount on it, it shoots commercial 308 fine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 2:47:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I have enough surplus 7.62x51 where I don't think I'd ever need to, but can I shoot 308 Winchester in this? Can it handle the difference in pressure? The close in weight to the mil bullet (147-150 gn) that the civvy bullet is, and the closer to mil-spec velocity it is when it leaves the barrel (IIRC, 2750 fps), the more nearly your rear sight will be GTG. This assumes that the rear sight was calibrated for the 7.62 NATO round, I.E., a properly calibrated rear sight was installed in place of the OEM rear sight intended for another round altogether. If this was not done, and the original rear sight was left on, then sight the thing in for a bullseye at 275 yds/250M for a battlesight zero. You might need to obtain a new, tall Front sight blade and file it down for elevation zeroing purposes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 3:16:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a M1895 Chilean Mauser which was rebarreled to 7.62 NATO. I have shot it with a variety of surplus and a couple of commercial .308 loads.  .308" has a bit more bolt thrust than 7x57mm Mauser. Watch your bolt lugs.
IIRC, someone was shooting an older Mauser(small ring, like yours) w/ a round that was considerably overpowered for it, and the receiver let go, letting the bbl cartwheel down the firing line, and killing the person it struck in the head. Will have to ask someone else for confirmation of that story. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 4:54:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.308" has a bit more bolt thrust than 7x57mm Mauser. Watch your bolt lugs.
IIRC, someone was shooting an older Mauser(small ring, like yours) w/ a round that was considerably overpowered for it, and the receiver let go, letting the bbl cartwheel down the firing line, and killing the person it struck in the head. Will have to ask someone else for confirmation of that story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I have a M1895 Chilean Mauser which was rebarreled to 7.62 NATO. I have shot it with a variety of surplus and a couple of commercial .308 loads. .308" has a bit more bolt thrust than 7x57mm Mauser. Watch your bolt lugs.
IIRC, someone was shooting an older Mauser(small ring, like yours) w/ a round that was considerably overpowered for it, and the receiver let go, letting the bbl cartwheel down the firing line, and killing the person it struck in the head. Will have to ask someone else for confirmation of that story. Several years since I shot it, but no problems. Most of what I shot were cast bullet reloads, at modest pressures, so there should be no problems there. This was a Chile military conversion, so I suspect after 6 decades of 7x57, and a few more decades of 7.62, the weak receivers have been weeded out. Mine has had an honorable semi-retirement for the last decade, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it on a cool day. I also had a similar Spanish M1916 rifle, and now have its M98 brother. No problems there, either. Not saying it can't happen, but at least 2 countries have done this conversion on the older action, and the M98 has been rebarelled to 7.62 several times also. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 5:24:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.308" has a bit more bolt thrust than 7x57mm Mauser. Watch your bolt lugs.
IIRC, someone was shooting an older Mauser(small ring, like yours) w/ a round that was considerably overpowered for it, and the receiver let go, letting the bbl cartwheel down the firing line, and killing the person it struck in the head. Will have to ask someone else for confirmation of that story. Pressure is my concern more than headspace (thanks though, Raf). A situation as described above is my concern. I won't shoot 308 through my FR-8 because, maybe internet lore, but I've read enough warnings in the 10 years or so I've had it not to. Was wondering if the same applied to the Kar98. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 5:48:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pressure is my concern more than headspace (thanks though, Raf). A situation as described above is my concern. I won't shoot 308 through my FR-8 because, maybe internet lore, but I've read enough warnings in the 10 years or so I've had it not to. Was wondering if the same applied to the Kar98. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
.308" has a bit more bolt thrust than 7x57mm Mauser. Watch your bolt lugs.
IIRC, someone was shooting an older Mauser(small ring, like yours) w/ a round that was considerably overpowered for it, and the receiver let go, letting the bbl cartwheel down the firing line, and killing the person it struck in the head. Will have to ask someone else for confirmation of that story. Pressure is my concern more than headspace (thanks though, Raf). A situation as described above is my concern. I won't shoot 308 through my FR-8 because, maybe internet lore, but I've read enough warnings in the 10 years or so I've had it not to. Was wondering if the same applied to the Kar98. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 5:48:32 PM EDT
[#8]
You might find this article of interest: http://www.chuckhawks.com/small_ring_mausers.htm
FWIW, I suffered not one, but two catastrophic case failures when shooting my '98 Mauser, a Chilean Modelo 1912, made by Steyr of Austria. The ammo was the notorious Izzy 7.62 NATO ammo, which I subsequently learned about. By catastrophic case failure, I mean that the case split from the side of the primer pocket, across the base of the ctg, and halfway up the side. Can't get much more catastrophic than that. The gas vent in the side of the action worked as intended, and neither I nor the rifle suffered any damage. This does not speak directly to your question, but serves to illustrate that a '98 Mauser in good mechanical condition is pretty sturdy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 5:51:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Think of all the big caliber guns built on a 98 action.... .308 isn't a concern.. IMHO.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 5:56:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pressure is my concern more than headspace (thanks though, Raf). A situation as described above is my concern. I won't shoot 308 through my FR-8 because, maybe internet lore, but I've read enough warnings in the 10 years or so I've had it not to. Was wondering if the same applied to the Kar98. The Kar98 of WWI (One) is not the same rifle as the 98k of WWII (Two). The Kar98 is not a good choice for .308 for reasons to detailed to type on my phone. 98k is GTG with .308. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 6:05:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FR-8 and Izzy Mausers are fine. Both are built off large ring Gew 98 spec'ed receivers. My izzy is going strong after YEARS of shooting nothing but Commercial Winchester White Box. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
.308" has a bit more bolt thrust than 7x57mm Mauser. Watch your bolt lugs.
IIRC, someone was shooting an older Mauser(small ring, like yours) w/ a round that was considerably overpowered for it, and the receiver let go, letting the bbl cartwheel down the firing line, and killing the person it struck in the head. Will have to ask someone else for confirmation of that story. Pressure is my concern more than headspace (thanks though, Raf). A situation as described above is my concern. I won't shoot 308 through my FR-8 because, maybe internet lore, but I've read enough warnings in the 10 years or so I've had it not to. Was wondering if the same applied to the Kar98. It is the Spanish FR-7 that were built from 93 Mausers that should not be shot with .308 Win or 7.62 NATO. They were chambered in 7.62 CETME. On a phone so Google the caliber for details. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 6:33:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is the Spanish FR-7 that were built from 93 Mausers that should not be shot with .308 Win or 7.62 NATO. They were chambered in 7.62 CETME. On a phone so Google the caliber for details. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 6:52:29 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm not seeing the pics...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 7:51:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Random question, did Israel get some of these from France?
There is a stylized "f" serial number that looks french to me. It's absolutely not Hebrew. Will post a pic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 7:54:54 PM EDT
[#15]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 7:55:27 PM EDT
[#16]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 7:56:03 PM EDT
[#17]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 7:56:55 PM EDT
[#18]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 7:59:31 PM EDT
[#19]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 8:01:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote Historythat 6 point star is known as a french acceptance stamp IIRC. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 8:38:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryThe 'f' is part of the serial number. 1 to 9999 1a to 9999a Repeat through z, then aa. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 8:45:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FR8s were built on Spanish M43 Large Ring Mausers. They're fine. The FR7 is not what I was talking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is the Spanish FR-7 that were built from 93 Mausers that should not be shot with .308 Win or 7.62 NATO. They were chambered in 7.62 CETME. On a phone so Google the caliber for details. We are saying the same thing..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 8:51:01 PM EDT
[#23]
IRC there was a problem with Spanish (?) Mausers, they used a round that was dimensionally identical to the 7.62x51 but considerably lower pressure loading.
Anyone else remember what country it was or if there were other .308 rifles affected? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 9:41:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 'f' is part of the serial number. 1 to 9999 1a to 9999a Repeat through z, then aa. Gotcha, but French, right? There's a couple peend out marks, I'm assuming (but can't say for sure) eagles/swastikas. It is also marked, by the sight with "37" |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 9:42:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IRC there was a problem with Spanish (?) Mausers, they used a round that was dimensionally identical to the 7.62x51 but considerably lower pressure loading. Anyone else remember what country it was or if there were other .308 rifles affected? I thought it was the FR-8 (Spain), but am gathering from the posts above that I am mistaken. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:19:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IRC there was a problem with Spanish (?) Mausers, they used a round that was dimensionally identical to the 7.62x51 but considerably lower pressure loading. Anyone else remember what country it was or if there were other .308 rifles affected? Sigh..... 7.62x51 CETME is a myth that just won't die. The FR8 was and is safe in 7.62 NATO. The Guardia Civil kept them in active service until the mid 1980s. The FR7 was built off Modelo 1916 Spanish Small Ring Mausers and they have an issue. Hell, Spain adopted 7.62 NATO before NATO did. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/15/2017 10:29:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sigh..... 7.62x51 CETME is a myth that just won't die. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/16/2017 12:22:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, Spain adopted 7.62 NATO before NATO did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, Spain adopted 7.62 NATO before NATO did. From 1953 prototype cartridges begin to take place in 7.62×51mm. In 1955 this caliber is adopted and soon begins to be mass-produced for the new CETME rifle. This cartridge does not meet NATO standards and is called 7.62×51mm Spanish. In the '60s, quality improves and become known as 7.62×51mm NATO-SPANISH. Only since 1988 cartridges produced in Spain are known as NATO–REGULAR and meet the specifications of this organization. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/16/2017 1:45:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Kar98 of WWI (One) is not the same rifle as the 98k of WWII (Two).
The Kar98 is not a good choice for .308 for reasons to detailed to type on my phone. 98k is GTG with .308. The Kar 98A (1st WW) was a 98 bolt on a small ring action, which I think gives rise to hoop strength issues? The GEW 98 (1st WW) was a 98 bolt on a large ring action, and was shortened between the wars to become the Kar 98k of the 2nd WW. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/16/2017 12:23:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Random question, did Israel get some of these from France? There is a stylized "f" serial number that looks french to me. It's absolutely not Hebrew. Will post a pic. Based on IDF arms procurement through the 1960s, it's certainly possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/30/2017 11:51:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Kar 98A (1st WW) was a 98 bolt on a small ring action, which I think gives rise to hoop strength issues? 
Years ago I bought an old Paul Jager sporter made from one of these actions. It was a 257 Roberts with a crappy bore. I took the barrel off and found out it had large ring diameter threads. To add to the danger it had been scrubbed so even more metal was removed.
I'll probably make it into a 22LR someday. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 12:03:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/15145139/10762656/kar%2098%200041.JPG
Years ago I bought an old Paul Jager sporter made from one of these actions. It was a 257 Roberts with a crappy bore. I took the barrel off and found out it had large ring diameter threads. To add to the danger it had been scrubbed so even more metal was removed.
I'll probably make it into a 22LR someday. You have no sense of adventure, sir. .458" SOCOM will fit. 
Why not make it a 12 ga? B/c if you don't do it, your son will lose your files, and your granddaughter will find the action, and think - I wonder why granddaddy bored this out for a large ring bbl? Well, HE must've known what he was doing - oh, and there's this .458" SOCOM +1.5" bbl that's on special @ ProMag! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 8:10:41 AM EDT
[#33]
My Izzy
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 8:59:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/15145139/10762656/kar%2098%200041.JPG Years ago I bought an old Paul Jager sporter made from one of these actions. It was a 257 Roberts with a crappy bore. I took the barrel off and found out it had large ring diameter threads. To add to the danger it had been scrubbed so even more metal was removed.
I'll probably make it into a 22LR someday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Kar 98A (1st WW) was a 98 bolt on a small ring action, which I think gives rise to hoop strength issues? http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/15145139/10762656/kar%2098%200041.JPG Years ago I bought an old Paul Jager sporter made from one of these actions. It was a 257 Roberts with a crappy bore. I took the barrel off and found out it had large ring diameter threads. To add to the danger it had been scrubbed so even more metal was removed.
I'll probably make it into a 22LR someday. Any Paul Jaeger is worth $1k. An interesting version on a less common action such as a KAR98 could bring quite a bit more. KAR98s don't have a hoop strength issue. They would stretch at the base of the threads due to an undercut machined in that location. Late production KARs and post war Polish versions eliminated this cut and the (rare) problem was eliminated. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2017 10:48:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha, but French, right? There's a couple peend out marks, I'm assuming (but can't say for sure) eagles/swastikas. It is also marked, by the sight with "37" No, the "f" is original German, its just German script....some of these letters can be really hard to decipher what they actually are...I started a like 4 page thread trying to figure out a letter suffix on one of mine on a 98k board.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/2/2017 4:04:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that 6 point star is known as a french acceptance stamp IIRC. The five pointed star is a French stamp. 
The six pointed star (aka "Star of David") is an Israeli stamp. It has the Hebrew letter "nun" inside the star. 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
