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Posted: 1/3/2016 9:24:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Our 'Russian' surplus was coming from the Ukraine. Until things settle there, our supply is neutered. Demand remains healthy, market economics does the rest.
That auction is on the high side but not unreasonable as SOG and others have it in that range (SOG is 344) |
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Posted: 1/3/2016 9:38:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks, the stuff on Gunbroker is not Russian, but Bulgarian, made in the early 1980s, not sure if that makes it more valuable, but I sure can't find any of it anywhere.
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Posted: 1/3/2016 10:44:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, the stuff on Gunbroker is not Russian, but Bulgarian, made in the early 1980s, not sure if that makes it more valuable, but I sure can't find any of it anywhere. Bulgy ammo is not premium as the seller claims, merrly better in general accuracy than say 50s Pole light ball. With Ukraine in disarray, the flow of surplus x54r and refurb crates of M91/30s have been disturbed. It's been well over year now since that happened and no be source of either has been found. This pretty much proves those that say "there's still ton of it everywhere" wrong. Appears only Ukraine has the any stock left. |
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Posted: 1/3/2016 12:58:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, the stuff on Gunbroker is not Russian, but Bulgarian, made in the early 1980s, not sure if that makes it more valuable, but I sure can't find any of it anywhere. missed the bulgarian part, that's what I get for surfing arfcom before caffeine has kicked in. bulgy is decent, on par with Russian from the 70s and 80s. (I would take russian plant 188 over it as a slight preference). |
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Posted: 1/3/2016 1:28:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Try Academy - they have Serbian Privi Partisan labeled as their Monarch brand.
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Posted: 1/3/2016 6:42:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Supply and Demand...
No more Ukrainian, No More Russian....with nearly a Million mosins imported.......... The days of cheap surplus 54R are long gone, if you didn't stack deep when tins were $29 or <..... you are SOL. The current prices of tins is near or more than some non corrosive commercial 54R. |
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Posted: 1/4/2016 1:43:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supply and Demand... No more Ukrainian, No More Russian....with nearly a Million mosins imported.......... The days of cheap surplus 54R are long gone, if you didn't stack deep when tins were $29 or <..... you are SOL. The current prices of tins is near or more than some non corrosive commercial 54R. This +1 Milsurp has a fixed supply. Once the old stock is sold, there is no more. Prices then quickly run up to new production prices. Although it doesn't matter now since basically most of the post-WWII and cold war surplus stores are gone... the lesson is... if something is cheap, hoard as much as you can get because it won't stay cheap forever. I'm glad I bought enough cases of 7.62x54R to piss my wife off. She now understands why as she's seen the prices climb... |
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Posted: 1/4/2016 9:12:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Lot of shooting/counter terrorist wars going on now.
Ukraine Syria Iraq Yemen Ukraine is probably hording all those extra rifles themselves. |
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Posted: 1/4/2016 9:42:33 AM EDT
[#9]
This is exactly why any time you buy a "cheap" surplus gun in an odd ball ( to the American market any way) caliber your first investment besides the gun should be 100 boxer primed cases and a set of reloading dies. Sure buy and shoot cheap available surplus when it is around but reloading is always plan b and prepare for it prior to scarcity becoming rampant. I grew up in the days the old odd surplus calibers were much harder to find than today and reloading was the only answer. Back in the late 70's or early 80's my brother bought one of the first import ak 's a maddi from Egypt. Back then if you did not reload you were out of luck. At that time custom brass was like 40 cents each ! And with the guns ejection pattern unless you were on a manicured range expect to find only 1/2 the empties fired.
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Posted: 1/4/2016 6:45:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try Academy - they have Serbian Privi Partisan labeled as their Monarch brand. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 12:38:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is exactly why any time you buy a "cheap" surplus gun in an odd ball ( to the American market any way) caliber your first investment besides the gun should be 100 boxer primed cases and a set of reloading dies. Sure buy and shoot cheap available surplus when it is around but reloading is always plan b and prepare for it prior to scarcity becoming rampant. I grew up in the days the old odd surplus calibers were much harder to find than today and reloading was the only answer. Back in the late 70's or early 80's my brother bought one of the first import ak 's a maddi from Egypt. Back then if you did not reload you were out of luck. At that time custom brass was like 40 cents each ! And with the guns ejection pattern unless you were on a manicured range expect to find only 1/2 the empties fired. here here. The truth of the matter is the majority of milsurp buyers in my opinion have been guys that didn't want to spend too much money and didn't want to get to invested otherwise. They just wanted cheap blasters with cheap blasting ammo. Reloading is out of the question for that segment. I know more than a few gun owners whose only gun is a m44 or m91/30. The same guys that delay cleaning after shooting their corrosive ammo. That said, I'm with you, I have fun reloading and casting for my milsurps. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 9:26:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This +1 Milsurp has a fixed supply. Once the old stock is sold, there is no more. Prices then quickly run up to new production prices. Although it doesn't matter now since basically most of the post-WWII and cold war surplus stores are gone... the lesson is... if something is cheap, hoard as much as you can get because it won't stay cheap forever. I'm glad I bought enough cases of 7.62x54R to piss my wife off. She now understands why as she's seen the prices climb... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Supply and Demand... No more Ukrainian, No More Russian....with nearly a Million mosins imported.......... The days of cheap surplus 54R are long gone, if you didn't stack deep when tins were $29 or <..... you are SOL. The current prices of tins is near or more than some non corrosive commercial 54R. This +1 Milsurp has a fixed supply. Once the old stock is sold, there is no more. Prices then quickly run up to new production prices. Although it doesn't matter now since basically most of the post-WWII and cold war surplus stores are gone... the lesson is... if something is cheap, hoard as much as you can get because it won't stay cheap forever. I'm glad I bought enough cases of 7.62x54R to piss my wife off. She now understands why as she's seen the prices climb... The Janitor is correct . 8mm Mauser is a good example . It used to be everywhere and cheap . A guy I know loaded up with it at $40 a case and is still shooting it . |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 9:29:11 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm good until I get a Maxim
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Posted: 1/5/2016 11:30:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is exactly why any time you buy a "cheap" surplus gun in an odd ball ( to the American market any way) caliber your first investment besides the gun should be 100 boxer primed cases and a set of reloading dies. Sure buy and shoot cheap available surplus when it is around but reloading is always plan b and prepare for it prior to scarcity becoming rampant. I grew up in the days the old odd surplus calibers were much harder to find than today and reloading was the only answer. Back in the late 70's or early 80's my brother bought one of the first import ak 's a maddi from Egypt. Back then if you did not reload you were out of luck. At that time custom brass was like 40 cents each ! And with the guns ejection pattern unless you were on a manicured range expect to find only 1/2 the empties fired. you will never be able to reload as cheap as surplus can/could be had when plentiful. Just buy enough to last ya a lifetime at that time. |
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Posted: 1/6/2016 9:39:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Correct usually that surplus ammo is cheaper than reloading - until a supply is gone and then becomes the best and only option. I see plenty of people posting concerns how do I feed my garand when m2 ball from cmp is no longer available? At that point it will be dollar a round boutique ammo or your reloads at a much lower price.
Another thing to consider is with reloads you can often squeeze maximal accuracy out of the rifle ( not important for a lot of blasters I know) with groups shrinking to half or greater with hand loads. Where I am from most people who collect and shoot old rifles tend to shoot them a great deal and stocking up on multiple cases of cheap ammo is not always feasible for some. But 100 empty cases and a set a of reloading dies is always a good investment |
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Posted: 1/6/2016 11:44:27 AM EDT
[#16]
When dirt cheap surplus dries up, it becomes economically viable to import modern steel case (see 7.62x39)
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Posted: 1/7/2016 1:15:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Janitor is correct . 8mm Mauser is a good example . It used to be everywhere and cheap . A guy I know loaded up with it at $40 a case and is still shooting it . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Supply and Demand... No more Ukrainian, No More Russian....with nearly a Million mosins imported.......... The days of cheap surplus 54R are long gone, if you didn't stack deep when tins were $29 or <..... you are SOL. The current prices of tins is near or more than some non corrosive commercial 54R. This +1 Milsurp has a fixed supply. Once the old stock is sold, there is no more. Prices then quickly run up to new production prices. Although it doesn't matter now since basically most of the post-WWII and cold war surplus stores are gone... the lesson is... if something is cheap, hoard as much as you can get because it won't stay cheap forever. I'm glad I bought enough cases of 7.62x54R to piss my wife off. She now understands why as she's seen the prices climb... The Janitor is correct . 8mm Mauser is a good example . It used to be everywhere and cheap . A guy I know loaded up with it at $40 a case and is still shooting it . I got some but not nearly what I wish I had bought. I remember buying the Turk surplus 8mm for dirt cheap... Miss that stuff. |
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Posted: 1/7/2016 9:08:39 PM EDT
[#18]
The last Turk I bought was 3600 rds for $130 shipped, good stuff for long barrel Mausers.
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Posted: 1/7/2016 9:17:00 PM EDT
[#19]
"I remember when you could get a mosin for 80 bucks". Makes me feel old due to the nature of the statement, but this was only a little while ago. I haven't invested time and money on restocking/stocking up on surplus ammo. I just bought a 308, 308 is the new cheap surplus round.
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Posted: 1/7/2016 10:42:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I remember when you could get a mosin for 80 bucks". Makes me feel old due to the nature of the statement, but this was only a little while ago. I haven't invested time and money on restocking/stocking up on surplus ammo. I just bought a 308, 308 is the new cheap surplus round. I remeber 59.99 in the old shotgun news. Or when wolf 7.62x39 was $69.99 a case shipped. $100 sks. that was 1998 when I first got into shooting. ( I was 18) 
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Posted: 1/7/2016 10:46:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remeber 59.99 in the old shotgun news. Or when wolf 7.62x39 was $69.99 a case shipped. $100 sks. that was 1998 when I first got into shooting. ( I was 18) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "I remember when you could get a mosin for 80 bucks". Makes me feel old due to the nature of the statement, but this was only a little while ago. I haven't invested time and money on restocking/stocking up on surplus ammo. I just bought a 308, 308 is the new cheap surplus round. I remeber 59.99 in the old shotgun news. Or when wolf 7.62x39 was $69.99 a case shipped. $100 sks. that was 1998 when I first got into shooting. ( I was 18)  |
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Posted: 1/8/2016 3:42:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those days are gone forever and will never be seen again. We're getting down to sub-$400 build your own ARs. Those are going to go up for a bit while the Salesman-In-Chief demonstrates his impotence, but with every scare the industry builds capacity. |
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Posted: 1/8/2016 2:03:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're getting down to sub-$400 build your own ARs. Those are going to go up for a bit while the Salesman-In-Chief demonstrates his impotence, but with every scare the industry builds capacity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those days are gone forever and will never be seen again. We're getting down to sub-$400 build your own ARs. Those are going to go up for a bit while the Salesman-In-Chief demonstrates his impotence, but with every scare the industry builds capacity. |
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Posted: 1/8/2016 2:48:21 PM EDT
[#24]
There is a shop here that has a can for 139 + tax..... tempting. I only have 5 or 6 cans. Just don't know if I should jump on it for that.
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Posted: 1/9/2016 2:14:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I remember when you could get a mosin for 80 bucks". Makes me feel old due to the nature of the statement, but this was only a little while ago. I haven't invested time and money on restocking/stocking up on surplus ammo. I just bought a 308, 308 is the new cheap surplus round. I remember buying a 6 pack of like new Chinese Type 53s in around 1989 for $49 each including transfer fees (those were not C&R). In those days Chinese SKSs were around $80 in quantity one in gun stores. Last 6 pack of Rusian M44s I bought was the "battlefield pickups" special from Centerfire systems a few years back for $39 each... |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 2:15:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a shop here that has a can for 139 + tax..... tempting. I only have 5 or 6 cans. Just don't know if I should jump on it for that. If you think there is a chance you will find it cheaper before you run out then pass on it, otherwise pounce. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 6:28:01 PM EDT
[#27]
OK, official price check because I am going to sell some locally. How much per sealed 880 crate of Bulgarian surplus? Is $275 butt rape? Or is $250 more like it?
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Posted: 1/9/2016 6:51:52 PM EDT
[#28]
At the local shows its been selling for $150 a can. Not too many available so people are buying it.
If I didn't have any I would gladly pay $300 for a crate. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 9:28:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Holy poop. Never thought I'd see $300 crates of 54r so soon, kinda makes me sad. That stuff is a blast!
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Posted: 1/13/2016 7:28:06 PM EDT
[#30]
If anybody is looking I put some in the classifieds. I don't want to ship but for regular posters in the C&R forum I will make an exception and ship single cans if anyone will pay shipping costs.
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Posted: 1/15/2016 7:09:37 PM EDT
[#31]
I see that my drunk purchases from years earlier are finally starting to pay off. At least when my 401K gets taken for the FSA, I still have my ammo fort.
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Posted: 1/17/2016 11:59:53 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see that my drunk purchases from years earlier are finally starting to pay off. At least when my 401K gets taken for the FSA, I still have my ammo fort. Investment guys always tell you to diversify... |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#33]
There is a reason I saved all my brass Yugo x54. It was quality brass and I can convert it to boxer primed real easy.
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Posted: 1/17/2016 5:01:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a reason I saved all my brass Yugo x54. It was quality brass and I can convert it to boxer primed real easy. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff36/jeremy2171/ammo/IMG_20140419_164701721_HDR_zpsc57421f1.jpg Measure the primers on those. If they are like some of the newer Yugo 7.62x54R cases I have the primers are larger than standard large rifle size so even if you were to convert them to boxer you may not be able to seat standard large rifle sized primers and have them hold... I ran into that... it is a bummer because these are great cases otherwise. I believe made by the Prvi Partsan factory. |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 5:59:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Measure the primers on those. If they are like some of the newer Yugo 7.62x54R cases I have the primers are larger than standard large rifle size so even if you were to convert them to boxer you may not be able to seat standard large rifle sized primers and have them hold... I ran into that... it is a bummer because these are great cases otherwise. I believe made by the Prvi Partsan factory. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is a reason I saved all my brass Yugo x54. It was quality brass and I can convert it to boxer primed real easy. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff36/jeremy2171/ammo/IMG_20140419_164701721_HDR_zpsc57421f1.jpg Measure the primers on those. If they are like some of the newer Yugo 7.62x54R cases I have the primers are larger than standard large rifle size so even if you were to convert them to boxer you may not be able to seat standard large rifle sized primers and have them hold... I ran into that... it is a bummer because these are great cases otherwise. I believe made by the Prvi Partsan factory. |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 8:53:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Now I feel good about grabbing some boxer primed 54r as well as a few extra cans
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Posted: 1/17/2016 9:47:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Notice the 1/4" copper tube bushing set into the primer pocket then swaged to the correct LR size. No issues... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a reason I saved all my brass Yugo x54. It was quality brass and I can convert it to boxer primed real easy. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff36/jeremy2171/ammo/IMG_20140419_164701721_HDR_zpsc57421f1.jpg Measure the primers on those. If they are like some of the newer Yugo 7.62x54R cases I have the primers are larger than standard large rifle size so even if you were to convert them to boxer you may not be able to seat standard large rifle sized primers and have them hold... I ran into that... it is a bummer because these are great cases otherwise. I believe made by the Prvi Partsan factory. I hadn't noticed that... I may have to try it as I also saved a large amount of that Yugo brass somewhere out in my garage... |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 4:10:22 PM EDT
[#38]
In stock at Sportsmans Guide $285 a crate. Gone are the days of $160 shipped!
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/880-rounds-762x54r-147-grain-fmj-ammo?a=1585760&CJ=1&cjaffilid=4084797&cjaffsite=Slickguns+Inc&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=Slickguns+Inc&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=SPG+Product+Catalog+-+SportsmansGuide.com |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 9:15:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In stock at Sportsmans Guide $285 a crate. Gone are the days of $160 shipped! http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/880-rounds-762x54r-147-grain-fmj-ammo?a=1585760&CJ=1&cjaffilid=4084797&cjaffsite=Slickguns+Inc&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=Slickguns+Inc&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=SPG+Product+Catalog+-+SportsmansGuide.com The importer (Bowman Arms/ Bowman & Co) who brought this ammo in for SPG stated there are only 3 container of this ammo, 1.8 million round in total. That is the only surplus 7.62x54r that was made avaiable for bids at importer level in well over a year. The owner stated the well has simply run dry after years of surplusing and huge demand out of Middle East where everybody has been shooting everybody. He's trying to work with some other countries that have some availability that aren't normally used by the importers. He doesn't have any more guaranteed leads for x54r after these 3 containers It's not surprising the stock has been depleted as even before the Sandy Hook and Ukraine mess the tin cans coming into US were all '82-87 date. We won't be seeing any post-1989 date surplus due to both fall of USSR that caused severe cut backs in military spending (and it's all located in Putins hands) and the fact in early 1990 the ball x54r was changed to hardened steel core so it's not importable. |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 9:25:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supply and Demand... No more Ukrainian, No More Russian....with nearly a Million mosins imported.......... The days of cheap surplus 54R are long gone, if you didn't stack deep when tins were $29 or <..... you are SOL. The current prices of tins is near or more than some non corrosive commercial 54R. I shoot my with wheel weights down the bore. I may alter them slightly with a 314299 mold.  Cheap and fun.
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Posted: 2/2/2016 6:31:11 PM EDT
[#41]
I broke and bought one of the cans at a local shop. $150 out the door. I saw sportsmansguide had their 880rds and a free shipping code. Was only a few bucks difference so I went to the shop instead. I'm younger and didn't have a whole lot of time to stack cheap and deep. I wish I would have gotten more 8mm when I had the chance. I ration that stuff like crazy :/
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Posted: 2/3/2016 8:21:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Gettysburg gun show in PA last weekend had very little and it was $340/crate.
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Posted: 2/3/2016 12:24:03 PM EDT
[#43]
No sales in the tech forums. -pilot
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Posted: 2/4/2016 12:44:33 PM EDT
[#44]
$285 a crate? FUCK!
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Posted: 2/17/2016 1:36:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Sportsman's GUide has it for $190/crate. Best price I've seen in awhile. Free shipping codes are out there.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/880-rds-762x54r-147-gr-steel-core-fmj-ammo?a=1551247&CJ=1&cjaffilid=4084797&cjaffsite=Slickguns+Inc&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=Slickguns+Inc&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=SPG+Product+Catalog+-+SportsmansGuide.com |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 2:07:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Same pattern we saw with all the other surplus calibers over the years (303,8mm, and so on). What a shame , but it is what it is as the days of Albanian for $39 a tin with free shipping are over.
I have enough to last my life time and probably my kids lifetime. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 2:11:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sportsman's GUide has it for $190/crate. Best price I've seen in awhile. Free shipping codes are out there. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/880-rds-762x54r-147-gr-steel-core-fmj-ammo?a=1551247&CJ=1&cjaffilid=4084797&cjaffsite=Slickguns+Inc&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=Slickguns+Inc&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=SPG+Product+Catalog+-+SportsmansGuide.com The correct term is "had" it not has it. That's old SKU and price from late 2014 early 2015 |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 7:41:49 PM EDT
[#48]
I found a local guy at $230 a crate and he had about 12 left . It was marked LPS-gj . I I did not have a lot I would have grabbed one
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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:21:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Janitor is correct . 8mm Mauser is a good example . It used to be everywhere and cheap . A guy I know loaded up with it at $40 a case and is still shooting it . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Supply and Demand... No more Ukrainian, No More Russian....with nearly a Million mosins imported.......... The days of cheap surplus 54R are long gone, if you didn't stack deep when tins were $29 or <..... you are SOL. The current prices of tins is near or more than some non corrosive commercial 54R. This +1 Milsurp has a fixed supply. Once the old stock is sold, there is no more. Prices then quickly run up to new production prices. Although it doesn't matter now since basically most of the post-WWII and cold war surplus stores are gone... the lesson is... if something is cheap, hoard as much as you can get because it won't stay cheap forever. I'm glad I bought enough cases of 7.62x54R to piss my wife off. She now understands why as she's seen the prices climb... The Janitor is correct . 8mm Mauser is a good example . It used to be everywhere and cheap . A guy I know loaded up with it at $40 a case and is still shooting it . This is what I did, I just checked last weekend and I still have several thousand rounds of Turkish 8mm on the strippers in bandoliers, an unopened case of 1970's yugo 8mm, and several thousand rounds of 7.62x54R (case of czech silver tip, 2 tins of Hungarian from the 40's or 50's, and 2 tins of some type of Eastern bloc ammo that looks like the one in the gunbroker link above). I bought it years ago when the prices were ridiculously low and never shot it because I got married and had 4 kids within 8 years. Now that the kids are getting older and the wife is getting a new job, I've been looking at what I have and literally forgot how much I had until I looked this last weekend. If I was entering the milsurp market at this time I wouldn't pay these prices for surplus ammo, I'd just buy some new production for the same price or cheaper. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 9:23:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The correct term is "had" it not has it. That's old SKU and price from late 2014 early 2015 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sportsman's GUide has it for $190/crate. Best price I've seen in awhile. Free shipping codes are out there. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/880-rds-762x54r-147-gr-steel-core-fmj-ammo?a=1551247&CJ=1&cjaffilid=4084797&cjaffsite=Slickguns+Inc&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=Slickguns+Inc&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=SPG+Product+Catalog+-+SportsmansGuide.com The correct term is "had" it not has it. That's old SKU and price from late 2014 early 2015 Oh, well. I'll let you know if I actually receive it or not, I did get an e-mail confirmation. I don't really need any more 54r but thought the price was too good to pass up. |
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