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Posted: 5/17/2015 1:18:28 PM EDT
Went to the gun show today, with my surplus JC Higgans "riot gun" and, after some horse trading and a minimal cash outlay, I now own a rifle I've been "meaning to buy" for a while: A late-war Type 99 Arisaka. Not a last-ditch, but probably only a version or two removed from the last-ditch and the machine work shows it.

The bore looks good and I suspect she might be a decent shooter, but I bought it mostly to have an Arisaka for the collection.

The quick pictures I took, I'll try to get better later.





The Mum, sadly, has been ground.



The numbers seem to be matching, but I haven't given it a thorough going over yet.



It still bears it's old rack number.

Overall, I'm happy, especially for what I have into it. I freely admit I know little about IJN weapons. Any input is appreciated.

This will be a day long remembered by the empire. It marks the first time in a long time that a Mosin-Nagant lost out to another rifle, for me.

There was a rack of 91/30s at the show, all marked at $260, which I judged was too high, until I spotted on that didn't look to have gone through a rebuild. Sure enough, it was a Finn-captured 91/30. I have one, and a nice one, so I passed in favor of the rifle I didn't own. Hopefully I'll get a crack at the 91/30 during the fall show.  
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 8:36:24 PM EDT
[#1]
I really like that one as it still has it's original finish and cleaning rod.

Don't sweat the Mum thing. It's a entirely over-blown issue unless it compromises the safety of the weapon.  

The ground Mum is also part of it's history.

I guess you know already but don't mess with the finish as it's very hard to duplicate.
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 9:09:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Oh, I know. I'm not sweating it, I just like the look of the Mum (and, of course, non-defaced Mums make for a more collectible rifle)

Ironically, I saw a sporterized Arisaka on Armslist a few weeks back, with an intact Mum. I almost went for it, anyways, but I'm into this one for less.An arisaka "shooter" in 30-06 still has some appeal, provided it was done right.

Oh yeah, nothing on this will be altered, in any way. I disassembled it and inspected/cleaned/lubed the works and put her back together. The bore on ths rifle looks REALLY nice. It only took a few patches to get it to shine up nicely. The bore is mirror and the rifling is well-defined. She should shoot.

The stock has a lot of "character", but I like 'em that way. These were workhorses and they weren't made for the museum. Good, honest wear makes them more attractive, to me.
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 9:28:04 PM EDT
[#3]
That rifle has been well taken care of over the years. Hardly any rust at al on the bare metal where it was ground.  Nice find
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 10:18:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Oh, I know. I'm not sweating it, I just like the look of the Mum (and, of course, non-defaced Mums make for a more collectible rifle)

View Quote


To a long-time collector of Japanese weapons the ground mum means pretty much squat. It's just a nice bonus. Matching numbers, series, condition, and factors like (to those weapons it applies to) sling, matching dust cover, cleaning rod, AA sights/ mono-pod mean much much more.

It is only within the last several years that the mum thing even became worth mentioning as interest in Jap. weapons have evolved with the newer "collectors". I certainly would not pay a premium for a whole mum.

If I had a choice between your rifle and one in like condition that was missing the cleaning rod with a full mum I'd take yours every-single-time.

Of course anyone would take a full mum over a defaced one all else being equal.....But that's the thing, they seldom are equal as Type 99s can be "widget" intensive.
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 10:41:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Interesting...
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 11:20:02 PM EDT
[#6]
1srelluc, Roger that.

Thanks for the information. I really didn't know most of that. (Well, I knew the dust covers are somewhat rare.)

I can't say I'm disappointed in the least. Going to have to locate a few rounds, to try her out with.

I passed on a nice Finn-Captured 91/30 to buy it and I'd do it over, given the same choice.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 8:40:02 AM EDT
[#7]
From GunBoards:

Great score !, it is a Nagoya Arsenal 7th series "transitional version", this one is unique in that it has the short rear ladder sight, the thin cupped metal butt plate, the cylindrical bolt handle, 2 screw front barrel band with the short stacking / cleaning rod still present.
A closeup of the serial number will help as more than 80,000 rifles with these features were manufactured in the 1943 - 44 period. Question does the end of the safety knob face has straight grooves or is it welded and rough ?. The last 5000 rifles of this series marking ( the character inside a circle in front of the serial number ) became the first of the " Last Ditch " production run at Nagoya ( 8th, 10th, 11th & 12th ) .
View Quote


It has the grooved cocking piece, so it looks like It's just outside being the first of the "Last Ditch".(SN 61255) Pretty cool.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 8:59:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Nice rifle! 7.7 is a pain in the ass to find, though. I have like 20 rounds.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 9:04:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nice rifle! 7.7 is a pain in the ass to find, though. I have like 20 rounds.
View Quote


Yeah, I know.

I'm considering just buying dies and components.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 9:38:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nice rifle! 7.7 is a pain in the ass to find, though. I have like 20 rounds.
View Quote


I found two boxes of old school Norma (wood grain box) 130 gr sp 7.7 last week at the flea market for $5.00.

I'm in good shape 7.7 wise but like you I'm down to just one box of 6.5.

Why Prvi does not load 7.7 & 6.5 Jap. is beyond me. I suspect they would sell it as fast as they could produce it for several years running.


BTW OP....Did you notice that on GBs not a single person mentioned the ground mum. They were all about the features of the series. That's the difference between seasoned collectors and the new breed that have come on board since  "Letters from Iwo Jima".  
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 9:42:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I found two boxes of old school Norma (wood grain box) 130 gr sp 7.7 last week at the flea market for $5.00.

I'm in good shape 7.7 wise but like you I'm down to just one box of 6.5.

Why Prvi does not load 7.7 & 6.5 Jap. is beyond me. I suspect they would sell it as fast as they could produce it for several years running.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice rifle! 7.7 is a pain in the ass to find, though. I have like 20 rounds.


I found two boxes of old school Norma (wood grain box) 130 gr sp 7.7 last week at the flea market for $5.00.

I'm in good shape 7.7 wise but like you I'm down to just one box of 6.5.

Why Prvi does not load 7.7 & 6.5 Jap. is beyond me. I suspect they would sell it as fast as they could produce it for several years running.


You WOULD!

I'm shocked Prvi doesn't load it, too. It seems like something they'd sell a decent amount of.

The ammo guys at the show were out of 7.7, of course. Going to have to shop on-liine, I suppose. Anyone who's likely to have it locally will probably have it marked pretty high, too.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 10:33:54 AM EDT
[#12]
I have no idea why Prvi doesn't make loaded 7.7. They do make the brass... they just don't load it.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#13]
The Hillsville flea market is this weekend, and I almost always find a box or two of 7.7 there.  I paid $20 a box for a couple last year.  No more than I shoot it, I can pay that easier than trying to load it.  The 6.5 I almost never see, maybe this is the year though!
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 11:39:03 AM EDT
[#14]
i posted some pics of my friends in another thread. his had the mum, mono pod, dust cover, and cleaning rod. its in great shape
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 12:41:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Nice rifle.  7.7 Jap used to be expensive, but now that seemingly all rifle ammo is expensive, it's not so bad.

6.5mm Jap fired out of a 7.7 will split the case neck & go,"Bloop!" my brother tells me.  He no longer test fires my rifles...  
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 2:49:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Needs matching war era Gun-to sword.  I could make room for that.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 5:50:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Nice rifle.

Well done.


I too am in the lack of ammo boat for my Type 38.  I have one box of the old "woodgrain" box Norma 6.5, and two stripper clips of post war (I think) 6.5 that was supposedly police issued, that is loaded so long that it won't cycle properly.

I'd buy a case of Privi 6.5 straight away if it were offered.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 5:52:03 PM EDT
[#18]
There is an ammunition company in Ca that has a rep at all the local shows and always has 6.5 and 7.7 but at $33 for 20. They do phone orders but with a 5 box minimum.
I wish my rifle had the cleaning rod but oh well it shoots better that I do and it has plenty of character and no bubba.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 10:16:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Nice rifle.  7.7 Jap used to be expensive, but now that seemingly all rifle ammo is expensive, it's not so bad.

6.5mm Jap fired out of a 7.7 will split the case neck & go,"Bloop!" my brother tells me.  He no longer test fires my rifles...  
View Quote


LOL! You'll have that,I guess.
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 10:19:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I found two boxes of old school Norma (wood grain box) 130 gr sp 7.7 last week at the flea market for $5.00.

I'm in good shape 7.7 wise but like you I'm down to just one box of 6.5.

Why Prvi does not load 7.7 & 6.5 Jap. is beyond me. I suspect they would sell it as fast as they could produce it for several years running.


BTW OP....Did you notice that on GBs not a single person mentioned the ground mum. They were all about the features of the series. That's the difference between seasoned collectors and the new breed that have come on board since  "Letters from Iwo Jima".  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice rifle! 7.7 is a pain in the ass to find, though. I have like 20 rounds.


I found two boxes of old school Norma (wood grain box) 130 gr sp 7.7 last week at the flea market for $5.00.

I'm in good shape 7.7 wise but like you I'm down to just one box of 6.5.

Why Prvi does not load 7.7 & 6.5 Jap. is beyond me. I suspect they would sell it as fast as they could produce it for several years running.


BTW OP....Did you notice that on GBs not a single person mentioned the ground mum. They were all about the features of the series. That's the difference between seasoned collectors and the new breed that have come on board since  "Letters from Iwo Jima".  


I did. (Saw you were reading that thread earlier)

Talked to a gun shop owner I've bought a LOT of interesting Mosin-Nagants from and he said he's only seen one that wasn't ground and he's been in te business for 23 years.

I guess I had some unrealistic expectations about the mum. I've learned a LOT about that, and other things, in the last couple of days.

You guys are the best!
Link Posted: 5/19/2015 9:45:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Did Hornady stop making their 7.7?
Link Posted: 5/19/2015 12:49:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Did Hornady stop making their 7.7?
View Quote


The way I had it explained to me is they do a run "from time to time".

Apparently, they haven't done a run in a while, because no one seems to have it in stock.
Link Posted: 5/19/2015 5:40:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Easier to just make it from 30 cal brass and use 7.62x54 heavy ball ammo for components..
Link Posted: 5/22/2015 11:07:21 AM EDT
[#24]
For you guys looking for 6.5 Japanese:

http://www.selwayarmory.com/65jap.aspx

These guys actually have it in stock (but no 7.7, ironically)

Expensive ($40/20 rounds), but they have it
Link Posted: 5/31/2015 11:39:22 AM EDT
[#25]
I also have a 7th series Nagoya type 99, and I have to be honest...I REALLY wish the ammo was cheap and plentiful, because I would shoot it all day long.  I've shot a lot of rifles, and they mostly all sound the same, but there is something special about the sound a type 99 makes...almost like a whip cracking.  It kicks good and hard, as any vintage surplus rifle ought to.  It's also a lot lighter (to me) than rifles of similar size (i.e. the No4 Enfield).  

I also have a type 38 carbine made at Nagoya.  I got it for $120 plus tax.  Sadly, someone had sporterized the original stock and painted it tacticool black.  I did find an original, well worn stock for it but it cost me another $150 AND I still need the very front piece, I think the nose cap as it is known.  However...it also came with about  1 3/4 boxes of Norma 6.5 Jap....so I feel I did ok.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:53:49 PM EDT
[#26]
I saw one of these yesterday. What is the going rate for something that condition? The one I saw had the Mum completely ground off. They were asking $270 I believe.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:24:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I saw one of these yesterday. What is the going rate for something that condition? The one I saw had the Mum completely ground off. They were asking $270 I believe.
View Quote

Hard to say without seeing it.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 2:23:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  I saw one of these yesterday. What is the going rate for something that condition? The one I saw had the Mum completely ground off. They were asking $270 I believe.
View Quote


Sounds reasonable.  I don't want one that bad, but excellent action, just lack of aftermarket parts.
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 4:09:26 PM EDT
[#29]
OP, what did you pay for your Arisaka if you don't mind me asking? Nice rifle...
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 8:18:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Privi makes 6.5 jap brass.  Buffalo arms sells it.   http://www.buffaloarms.com/Japanese_Reloading_Brass_it-161984.aspx?PROD=161984
Not sure who else sells it.   Spendy though
8mm mauser brass will work for 7.7.  The necks will be short.  Or form 06 cases in a 7.7 die and trim them.  I think Lee used to sell 7.7 dies.  
Both my 7.7 and 6.5 jap die sets were found discounted at a LGS.    have a set of 221 fire ball dies that I also bought that way for $10 but those haven't morphed into a gun in 221 fire ball like the two arisaka sets.
I would like to find a box of jap surplus for each caliber.  Or maybe just a couple of surplus cartridges in each.
 
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 4:33:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP, what did you pay for your Arisaka if you don't mind me asking? Nice rifle...
View Quote


I ended up at $175.

Too good a price to pass up. I regularly see them for a good deal more.
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