https://mikerogers.house.gov/press-release/rogers-let-cmp-handle-army-surplus-vintage-firearms

Hopefully, but don't hold your breath. I seriously doubt this will go through.

The NDAA is going through. No reason an amendment by the majority party wouldn't come through.

Can I pre-order one NOW!

Just wait until the teeth gnashing about "surplus Army pistols in the wrong hands" starts.

They'll shy away from the NDAA and these will probably remain in storage for the foreseeable future.

Congress hasn't shown me anything that makes me think they'd go for anything as "controversial" as the NDAA.

Let's hope. I'm not optimistic, but I'm still going to dare to dream.

ETA - I didn't think the Army had large numbers of serviceable 1911s left. Hasn't Orest talked about this in the past, and has said that most of them are just frames at this point?

The old dcm sold pistols until passage of gca 68. The current congressional mandate for the cmp states rifles only. A lot of behind the scenes wheel and deals would have to happen to make a change authorizing release of 1911's or other pistols. I am not optimistic about this. Honestly with the market flooded with 1911's ( I know not the same as a real usgi pistol) I am not sure this would be all that profitable for the cmp.
At the time of the beretta adoption one of the cited reasons was a lack of serviceable 1911's in inventory - it was stated then and probably accurate that there was about a 50/50 splint in the armed forces regarding pistols with half the services actually using 38 revolvers instead of the old 1911's.
Considering over the service life and production of gi issue 45's there were roughly 4 million total and by the early 80's it was said less than 100000 were left functional, I suspect there is not a lot left. Keep in mind besides attrition from combat, wearing out , previous surplus sales, there were also large numbers given away as aid to countries like Vietnam Iran and others from which they can never be recovered.

Thanks for that!  

There are not that many 1911s left and those that are left  will be in terrible shape.

In fact, the M9s will also be in bad shape, plus their aluminum alloy frames don't last the way a forged 1911 frame does.  

That leaves only the M11 - which is a decent gun.  But not uncommon.

The condition is a who knows sort of thing - for example a pistol in inventory at Fort Knox when it was the base all tankers were trained at  where every trainer shot a pistol ( only other soldier trained on the pistol typically were mp's) those would certainly be beat.
On the other hand the 1911's stored in my unit arms room when I was an enlisted guy ( guard med unit with only officers authorized pistols and most of them not even carried at annual training and shot once a year ) were all original never rebuilt Remington rand with about 90% finish.

I had to exhale a while ago...





 

The bill has passed committee in the House.  It has not been voted on by the House as a body.  The Senate bill is nowhere to be seen.  Who knows what might happen in the Conference Committee.   Plus a presidential signature is required.

We are a looooooonnnnnnng ways away from seeing this come to pass.  I rate it's chances at lottery-like odds.

Obama can't line item veto, so if it comes out of conference committee, if required, he will have to sign it or kill a major funding bill.

That is a really good point.   It also illustrates why the composition of the Supreme Court is important.Before the SCOTUS decision he could have line item vetoed.

I read somewhere there were 92k or so in inventory.

As far as condition I've seen the gamut I guess.

1987 Parris Island boot camp fam fire 1911's were clapped out, I was aiming half way down the left target frame leg to hit paper.   By far that was the worst 1911 I've ever shot.
My USMCR unit had brand new 92F's when I got there.

Years later I jumped over to the guard;  HHC of a tank battalion, we had lots of 1911's and they were rebuilds and pretty good, I'd say 80-90% condition.  IIRC we never shot them though, we all shot the M16A1 on the range despite what your issue weapon was.  After that unit was shut down I jumped to an MP unit and their 1911's were a bit more worn, I'd put them at 70-80% finish.  They shot well enough if you didn't get some shit mags from the box.   All the company's pistol mags were in a footlocker,   at the end of the range they all went back in the box even if you told them a magazine was bad.  I also saw a few maintenance issues crop up.  One winter we were deployed by platoons in succession to Panama to augment AD MP's during the holiday season.  As a convenience they only deployed the first platoons weapons so the succeeding platoons utilized the first platoons weapons.  I got one that was defective, fired with the grip safety not depressed.  I tried to refuse the weapon to the AD arms room guy.  He apologized and said, your unit doesn't have any spares here.  So I was working gates and doing foot patrol with a loaded but partially defective pistol that I've never fired before.   I did bring my own chip mcCormick mags though.  At least I knew they worked in my own 1911.  

I'd like to buy a 1911 or A1 even if a rebuild.   I wouldn't want to pay a premium for it either.  CMP is getting pretty proud of their stuff in questionable condition so I'd be waiting to see what they'd price them at if it ever really happened (which I doubt it will happen).   At least buying at a gunshop or person to person, you're buying a specific pistol in specific condition and not paying the going rate and maybe getting a pot luck bottom of description.    I've bought a number of CMP guns and they've mostly been good, only got burned on one that was lesser than described but overall I was ahead before the prices really escalated.  I really don't buy anymore there at their current prices.   That's a whole nuther discussion.

I have purchased several Garands and have yet to get one that didn't at least meet the minimum description.  I have never received a junker yet and the prices are still WELL below the going rate on the street.  With that said, I don't expect to ever see these 1911's.

As much as I'd love to see this happen, I doubt it does.  Even if it does happen, CMP prices are getting near retail so I imagine they'll price them pretty high, keeping a lot of people who really want one from being able to afford one.

Or worse... auction them...

I doubt they would auction them. Someone else pointed out that if they auctioned 20 a week (more than they do with carbines), it would take 88 years to go through all of them. I think they would follow the pattern of the IHCs. batch releases periodically, but unavailable most of the time.

The number floated around on the CMP boards is 92,000 1911s. Its some previously published 100k figure minus 8k shredded in the 90's.

I was at the Anniston CMP a few years ago and hung out for the better part of the day. I bought 2 woodless and a complete field grade. I was speaking to a gentleman there and asked him about the 1911's. He stated that he doubted that it would ever happen. Mosy of the were worn out, rebuilt over and over and crushed for scrap.



me: I would sure like to have a few words with that fellow (or a comment similar).







him: (raises his hand) that would be me.



It was Orest himself.



Hey, what did I know.

How did they calculate that? I thought there was no accurate count of built or build-able 1911's in storage?

Another thing...

It's relatively easy to put a garand together. not a lot of "fitting"... 1911's require a different skill set. Just wonder how hard it would be to train their crew to do it? I for one hate stripping down my 1911's. Just field stripping is a PITA.

What would be the age of these beasts? I have a WWII Colt US Army. It's beautiful. I find it's historic value more important because it's WWII (at least to me). I am not sure I can to own a later model. What kind of value do you place on a WWII vs. say Korean or Vietnam era 1911?

There will be no "fitting" of these pistols.
A pistol of that era will be as loose as a trailer park meth head.
If they come in parts, they can be put together in minutes with what is available.
I'm sure they may pay some attention to some of them and ask a premium.
But don't expect one of these pistols to have matching parts numbers.

The political/media fire storm that this would create, for any administration, will preclude this ever happening.

They will all end up in the shredder.

This!

 

FYI, the last goverment contracts for M1911A1s were fulfilled in 1945. Those M1911A1s I carried well into 1996, were all from that WWII production run or earlier. Similarly, any VN-, Grenada-,  or  Desert Storm -issued 1911 is too.


If you find a pistol that left the service with the guy who was carrying it in WWII, it might be in better condition, or worse, if he bubba'd it.



Anything 1911-ish after that were relatively recent special limited runs for the Kimber Det 1, the M45, and M45A1, all of which were not intended for regular issue to the armed forces.

Well, I know some of you fellas don't visit General Discussion much.  Can't say I blame you; it can be pretty bad.

But this post about the CMP possibly getting 1911s showed up in GD in case you didn't t see it.  

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748049_Defense_Bill_Would_Put_100_000_Untraceable_Guns_On_Streets.html

Fair warning: it might make you see red.  Some people must really hate guns to tell lies like this.

I just don't understand some people opposition to CMP selling these heirloom pieces of our history  back to the  American citizens who's parents and grandparents fought for our freedoms.

Lol.

USGI weapons didn't do matching serial numbers on parts. Why? The touchstone of US Army Ordnance ever since about the Civil War was parts interchangeability.
Meaning that the GI spec for 1911s also mandated parts interchangeability, without fitting.
That's also why GI 1911s tend to have not-great trigger pulls and aren't match-tight.

Quoted:


Lol.

USGI weapons didn't do matching serial numbers on parts. Why? The touchstone of US Army Ordnance ever since about the Civil War was parts interchangeability.
Meaning that the GI spec for 1911s also mandated parts interchangeability, without fitting.
That's also why GI 1911s tend to have not-great trigger pulls and aren't match-tight.


Edit: Sorry about cutting the quote tree wrong.
Not sure why the "LOL" was needed.
You said exactly what I said, but with different words.

Colt put matching serial numbers on Military 1911A1 slides and frames from serial number 710001-1140000.  Mismatched guns in this serial number range command significantly less from collectors.  Less still if they are refinished or are full of other incorrect parts.  

 

I would expect few gems if any of these are offered through the CMP.  Any correct or rare specimens would go to the CMP auction, and anything else would be mixmaster, rearsenaled shooter quality guns, or guns for parts.

This is why this won't happen, ass clowns like these writing about a subject they know nothing about to a audience that generally believes whatever there told

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/12/ndaa-guns_n_7265184.html

Its going to happen (passing Congress) the question is : will Obama  veto the bill?

Changing the law's wording from "Rifles" to "Firearms" will allow the CMP to sell off the .mil's surplus M1911A1s (rebuilt and ready-to-issue as well as a surprisingly large number in damn-near Smithsonian condition); shot-to-hell M9s; all the revolvers that armed Air Force Security Police and multi-service aircrewmen and investigators (OSI, NCIS, and CID); odds-and-ends General Officer pistols (Browning .32s); as well as ROTC and MWR Rugers and 5- and 7-inch Smith and Wesson 41s; and a large number of shotguns.

Other odds-and ends that would become available would be AMU pistols beyond service life or obsolete (.22 Short Olympic rapid fire pistols) and others issued to USASOC (old Glocks) and the Navy and Coast Coast Guard (Sigs).

Really?  Do you think the administration that just said "Oh officers those nice little MRAP's, bayonets, pistols (including same 1911's mind you), rifles, etc. that you were getting from us - you ain't gonna no more because you been marching on my homies with em.  And by the way I have my lackeys administration looking at how to get back all the cool stuff we done give to yo honkey assed rednecks....gimme all that chit back right now ya here!"

You think that he would stand aside and allow American's handguns from the US military?  Won't happen in his administrative lifetime....

Earl

Without a line item veto he will have to scrap his military spending or sign it

HR 1735 has passed the Senate, but I don't have time to look and see if it was amended in a way that will prevent the CMP from selling pistols.

I don't see any amendments related to this at all, unless they're really well hidden somewhere.

ETA: I see it. It's no longer an amendment, it's actually part of the bill itself, and the Senate version of the bill contained it. If the bill isn't vetoed, CMP can now receive any surplus firearm the Army has in inventory - not just pistols, shotguns too.

Awesome - thanks guys!  Fingers crossed.

Cautiously optimistic here.  

Just hope they don't try some regulatory end-run around this like ordering them all destroyed as Clinton tried to do.

This is cool.

The CMP already has 1911's by the case full. They would receive them mixed in with the cases of rifles, and couldn't sell them so they have sat in storage for many years.

I'd just buy one and frame that fucker. Put it on my wall with the 1903 USMC rifle I don't have yet.. but will one day own.

I don't ever see it happening.  If the media printed stories about the CMP selling PISTOLS to civilians and mailing them to people's homes it would incite panic in the streets.  

I think the plan with pistols is to ship them to FFLs, or at least the rumor I heard.

I am betting he can find a way - EO or something - to thwart this.

Look how Bill Clinton alone ordered the destruction of all those M14s?