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Posted: 9/17/2014 8:18:03 AM EDT
I never thought I would have a "C&R" rifle but I picked up a p17 for $325. It has some orange paint on the forend with "30-06" painted on it, and the finish is long gone from the metal, but no rust.
Intending on stripping it and using the action for a dangerous game rifle build, I didnt look at the barrel when I bought it, but the barrel looks like brand new and I cant bring myself to take it apart.  I have figured out enough to know that the stock is Remington and the rest is Eddystone, and the bolt dosn't match but it headspaces fine. So now I have this Enfield and know very little about them. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 8:19:50 AM EDT
[#1]
If the barrel is clean, it is complete and in good over all condition it's worth $600 all day long. Red paint and '06 markings denote it was British lend lease and they marked these rifles so as not to get them mixed with their P14 chambered for 303.
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Posted: 9/17/2014 9:07:08 AM EDT
[#2]
First off, there isn't any such thing as a P'17 rifle. There is a P'14 rifle, and an M1917 rifle, but no P'17 rifle and no M1914 rifle.
Second, "bolt doesn't match"? M1917 bolts weren't numbered to begin with. If it has a number, that number was applied by a country that wasn't the US (as we didn't serialize anything but the receiver in most cases) - generally that would be either the UK or Denmark. As said, the red band indicates that this rifle was given to the UK as aid during WWII; many of those rifles were then passed off to Denmark post-war. The bolt could have been numbered by either of those two countries. Please don't mangle an intact M1917, especially one with British Lend-Lease markings. Find an already mangled one. ETA: It should be noted that the Danish Navy unit that patrols Greenland (the Sirius Patrol) still uses M1917s; in Danish service these are called the Gevær M/53. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 9:10:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First off, there isn't any such thing as a P'17 rifle. There is a P'14 rifle, and an M1917 rifle, but no P'17 rifle and no M1914 rifle. Second, "bolt doesn't match"? M1917 bolts weren't numbered to begin with. If it has a number, that number was applied by a country that wasn't the US (as we didn't serialize anything but the receiver in most cases) - generally that would be either the UK or Denmark. As said, the red band indicates that this rifle was given to the UK as aid during WWII; many of those rifles were then passed off to Denmark post-war. The bolt could have been numbered by either of those two countries. Aren't those some of the M1917s that were made into drill rifles (hole drilled in barrel) and later rebarreled? |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 9:17:01 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aren't those some of the M1917s that were made into drill rifles (hole drilled in barrel) and later rebarreled? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First off, there isn't any such thing as a P'17 rifle. There is a P'14 rifle, and an M1917 rifle, but no P'17 rifle and no M1914 rifle. Second, "bolt doesn't match"? M1917 bolts weren't numbered to begin with. If it has a number, that number was applied by a country that wasn't the US (as we didn't serialize anything but the receiver in most cases) - generally that would be either the UK or Denmark. As said, the red band indicates that this rifle was given to the UK as aid during WWII; many of those rifles were then passed off to Denmark post-war. The bolt could have been numbered by either of those two countries. Aren't those some of the M1917s that were made into drill rifles (hole drilled in barrel) and later rebarreled? You're thinking of that batch of P'14 DP rifles that came from India. To my knowledge most of the M1917s we gave to the UK either wound up in the hands of Dad's Army and then were transferred to the Danes post-war, or were given to the RCAF and stayed mostly in Canada. I haven't seen any red-banded M1917s turned into drill rifles. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're thinking of that batch of P'14 DP rifles that came from India. To my knowledge most of the M1917s we gave to the UK either wound up in the hands of Dad's Army and then were transferred to the Danes post-war, or were given to the RCAF and stayed mostly in Canada. I haven't seen any red-banded M1917s turned into drill rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
First off, there isn't any such thing as a P'17 rifle. There is a P'14 rifle, and an M1917 rifle, but no P'17 rifle and no M1914 rifle. Second, "bolt doesn't match"? M1917 bolts weren't numbered to begin with. If it has a number, that number was applied by a country that wasn't the US (as we didn't serialize anything but the receiver in most cases) - generally that would be either the UK or Denmark. As said, the red band indicates that this rifle was given to the UK as aid during WWII; many of those rifles were then passed off to Denmark post-war. The bolt could have been numbered by either of those two countries. Aren't those some of the M1917s that were made into drill rifles (hole drilled in barrel) and later rebarreled? You're thinking of that batch of P'14 DP rifles that came from India. To my knowledge most of the M1917s we gave to the UK either wound up in the hands of Dad's Army and then were transferred to the Danes post-war, or were given to the RCAF and stayed mostly in Canada. I haven't seen any red-banded M1917s turned into drill rifles. I suspect you are correct. The CMP sells M1917 drill rifles when available but not like the ones I was thinking about. Theirs come from within the US from VFWs and such. http://thecmp.org/Sales/m1917.htm |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 10:57:01 AM EDT
[#6]
What has been said above is correct, I also implore you not to cut up an intact M1917, there are plenty of already chopped ones that can be picked up for cheap and redone if one wishes.....
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Posted: 9/17/2014 11:20:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What has been said above is correct, I also implore you not to cut up an intact M1917, there are plenty of already chopped ones that can be picked up for cheap and redone if one wishes..... Also, pics:     Best pics I could get of the bore:   |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 12:51:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Canadian property marking on the receiver - this is a Canadian-issue rifle, possibly an RCAF rifle. Look on the buttstock for an RCAF marking.
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Posted: 9/17/2014 1:18:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Canadian property marking on the receiver - this is a Canadian-issue rifle, possibly an RCAF rifle. Look on the buttstock for an RCAF marking. These were also used as training rifles by the Canadians. My Eddystone M1917 has Canadian Officer Training Corps markings on the buttstock, along with the Canadian broad arrow military acceptance marking. 
The COTC was the Canadian version of the ROTC. Here's a shot of some COTC cadets at McGill University in 1941 marching with M1917 rifles. (Full sized picture at http://news.library.mcgill.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/War2.jpg) 
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Posted: 9/17/2014 1:56:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Nice P17.
For the ones who want to be anal about nomenclature, it's Model OF 1917, not M1917, Model 1917, P17, etc. Only U.S. rifle to have the OF in the official, as adopted, designation. I've got all three makers, and I'll just go on ahead calling them P17s. Try to get it right before you sling poo. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 2:21:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Canadian property marking on the receiver - this is a Canadian-issue rifle, possibly an RCAF rifle. Look on the buttstock for an RCAF marking.  |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 2:22:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice P17. For the ones who want to be anal about nomenclature, it's Model OF 1917, not M1917, Model 1917, P17, etc. Only U.S. rifle to have the OF in the official, as adopted, designation. I've got all three makers, and I'll just go on ahead calling them P17s. Try to get it right before you sling poo. The rifle is referred to as an "M1917" in many War Department publications. 
The "P'17" designation is entirely informal; nobody ever referred to it as that in any official capacity. There are things that are Pattern 1917, but a rifle is not one of them. You can call it a banana if you like, but... |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 2:30:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is whats on the buttstock: http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag147/wsterryandco/IMG_0528_zpsaf984c9f.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Canadian property marking on the receiver - this is a Canadian-issue rifle, possibly an RCAF rifle. Look on the buttstock for an RCAF marking. http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag147/wsterryandco/IMG_0528_zpsaf984c9f.jpg RMR could quite possibly indicate the Royal Montreal Regiment. Likely, as RogueJSK said, used by them as a training rifle. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 3:31:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rifle is referred to as an "M1917" in many War Department publications. <a href="http://s747.photobucket.com/user/MVolkJ1975/media/Stuff/M1917-ORD-9-SNL-B-4-Cover_zpsb4db229d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx116/MVolkJ1975/Stuff/M1917-ORD-9-SNL-B-4-Cover_zpsb4db229d.jpg</a> The "P'17" designation is entirely informal; nobody ever referred to it as that in any official capacity. There are things that are Pattern 1917, but a rifle is not one of them. You can call it a banana if you like, but... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice P17. For the ones who want to be anal about nomenclature, it's Model OF 1917, not M1917, Model 1917, P17, etc. Only U.S. rifle to have the OF in the official, as adopted, designation. I've got all three makers, and I'll just go on ahead calling them P17s. Try to get it right before you sling poo. The rifle is referred to as an "M1917" in many War Department publications. <a href="http://s747.photobucket.com/user/MVolkJ1975/media/Stuff/M1917-ORD-9-SNL-B-4-Cover_zpsb4db229d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx116/MVolkJ1975/Stuff/M1917-ORD-9-SNL-B-4-Cover_zpsb4db229d.jpg</a> The "P'17" designation is entirely informal; nobody ever referred to it as that in any official capacity. There are things that are Pattern 1917, but a rifle is not one of them. You can call it a banana if you like, but... So, the Army basically called it a banana. Just because they used an unofficial term, should we? M1917 is every bit as informal and incorrect as all the other terms the purists hate, if you want to get down to it. It's either the Model of 1917, or it's everything else and no one should go around trying to impress by correcting others with their own informal names. For me, it's all the above. The know it all's should find some other 'fact' to impress with. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 7:21:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, the Army basically called it a banana. Just because they used an unofficial term, should we? M1917 is every bit as informal and incorrect as all the other terms the purists hate, if you want to get down to it. It's either the Model of 1917, or it's everything else and no one should go around trying to impress by correcting others with their own informal names. For me, it's all the above. The know it all's should find some other 'fact' to impress with. You're being obtuse. The Army called it an M1917 because it is an M1917 - they determine what the nomenclature is. Just as the Model of 1911 was also commonly shortened to M1911 in nomenclature, the term M1917 was commonly used as shorthand for Model of 1917. Same with M1903, etc. All of these terms appear commonly in War Department literature. Similar things were done in British Commonwealth nomenclature - the Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield became ShtLE or SMLE, etc. These terms appear in the official List of Changes. You're trying to excuse the use of an informal, non-official term for something by declaring that accepted nomenclature somehow is "unacceptable". Like I said, call it what you want to call it, but don't try to justify it. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 7:26:40 PM EDT
[#16]
I would have snatched that up for that money. It's about the only C&R I lust after other than the No4 Mk1 I already have. Nice find!
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Posted: 9/17/2014 10:04:43 PM EDT
[#17]
I like that banana with the Canadian acceptance marks.
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Posted: 9/17/2014 10:20:06 PM EDT
[#18]
I have one in good condition/all matching Eddystone 9/18 with Canadian markings. RCAF with what I think is a unit number and Canadian broad arrow on the stock. I'll post a picture when I get home tomorrow.
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