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Posted: 8/14/2014 6:12:41 PM EDT
[#1]
the 7.62x25 ammo drought sure killed a budding market...
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Posted: 8/14/2014 6:32:49 PM EDT
[#2]
There are plenty of C&R guns out there. But they're mostly on the secondary market (that is, Gunbroker, Armslist, and the classifieds sections of various milsurp forums).
But you're correct that the online retailers don't have much right now, and they likely will never have the huge numbers of different surplus rifles that they've had in the past. Most of the overseas arsenals have been emptied of their surplus firearms, and what is left tends to be the bottom of the barrel in quality. And the surplus ammo supply for many of the traditional surplus firearm calibers has dried up, which makes some of these companies reluctant to bother importing guns in calibers with limited supply and therefore limited interest. But despite that, several of them are still managing to keep coming up with small shipments of interesting milsurps. |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 6:33:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are plenty of C&R guns out there. But they're mostly on the secondary market (that is, Gunbroker, Armslist, and the classifieds sections of various milsurp forums). This |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 6:52:46 PM EDT
[#4]
I think I would die happy for one more shipment of decent Enfields
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Posted: 8/14/2014 6:59:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I think I would die happy for one more shipment of decent Enfields There's no need to be so melodramatic. There are lots of great Enfields for sale out there. I've bought three Enfields in the last year alone! Instead of just checking the Aim Surplus and J&G Sales sites, and then shrugging and saying "Oh well, I guess there's no Enfields left", you'll have to branch out. Start keeping an eye on places like Armslist, Gunbroker, the AR15.com C&R EE, the Gunboards.com Trader Forum, and any other milsurp forum with a classifieds section. Enfields show up for sale on those sites all the time. Plus, when you go that route and buy an individual rifle from a private seller, you get to see exactly what you're buying before it arrives, instead of putting in an order for a random rifle from a large shipment and simply crossing your fingers. And you're often able to get them for a price that's below what a retailer would sell a comparable rifle at, if you're patient and you keep your eyes open. |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 7:26:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no need to be so melodramatic. There are lots of great Enfields for sale out there. I've bought three Enfields in the last year alone! Instead of just checking the Aim Surplus and J&G Sales sites, and then shrugging and saying "Oh well, I guess there's no Enfields left", you'll have to branch out. Start keeping an eye on places like Armslist, Gunbroker, the AR15.com C&R EE, the Gunboards.com Trader Forum, and any other milsurp forum with a classifieds section. Enfields show up for sale on those sites all the time. Plus, when you go that route and buy an individual rifle from a private seller, you get to see exactly what you're buying before it arrives, instead of putting in an order for a random rifle from a large shipment and simply crossing your fingers. And you're often able to get them for a price that's below what a retailer would sell a comparable rifle at, if you're patient and you keep your eyes open. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think I would die happy for one more shipment of decent Enfields There's no need to be so melodramatic. There are lots of great Enfields for sale out there. I've bought three Enfields in the last year alone! Instead of just checking the Aim Surplus and J&G Sales sites, and then shrugging and saying "Oh well, I guess there's no Enfields left", you'll have to branch out. Start keeping an eye on places like Armslist, Gunbroker, the AR15.com C&R EE, the Gunboards.com Trader Forum, and any other milsurp forum with a classifieds section. Enfields show up for sale on those sites all the time. Plus, when you go that route and buy an individual rifle from a private seller, you get to see exactly what you're buying before it arrives, instead of putting in an order for a random rifle from a large shipment and simply crossing your fingers. And you're often able to get them for a price that's below what a retailer would sell a comparable rifle at, if you're patient and you keep your eyes open. +1 again.. my brother just picked this up on another popular forum for 320 shipped. Just 2 wks ago.. Longbranch noimport marked. 1944 
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Posted: 8/14/2014 7:33:24 PM EDT
[#7]
It is so nice to see photos where the owner knows the advantages of a neutral background and overcast skies to keep the contrast down.
That is a really nice Longbranch. Coincidentally enough, that is the manufacturer I need to round out my Enfield No4 family. Also still need a Long Lee or two. Mavs1306, I just picked up a Indian .22 trainer a couple months back and just missed a nice post war No5 a week or so ago on Gunbroker. Spread your feelers out a little wider. |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 7:42:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is so nice to see photos where the owner knows the advantages of a neutral background and overcast skies to keep the contrast down. . I know right.. everyone seem to want to stick their rifles in harsh sunlight and wonder why the pictures come out like crap - Its the first thing i tell folks who look for help taking better pictures - natural light is always the best and your best friend. |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 8:15:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know right.. everyone seem to want to stick their rifles in harsh sunlight and wonder why the pictures come out like crap - Its the first thing i tell folks who look for help taking better pictures - natural light is always the best and your best friend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is so nice to see photos where the owner knows the advantages of a neutral background and overcast skies to keep the contrast down. . I know right.. everyone seem to want to stick their rifles in harsh sunlight and wonder why the pictures come out like crap - Its the first thing i tell folks who look for help taking better pictures - natural light is always the best and your best friend. Some 'shop skills help too. I do like Spax's pics though. |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 9:37:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some 'shop skills help too. I do like Spax's pics though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is so nice to see photos where the owner knows the advantages of a neutral background and overcast skies to keep the contrast down. . I know right.. everyone seem to want to stick their rifles in harsh sunlight and wonder why the pictures come out like crap - Its the first thing i tell folks who look for help taking better pictures - natural light is always the best and your best friend. Some 'shop skills help too. I do like Spax's pics though. True, but ironically i don't use photoshop; and thank you for the compliment. 
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:46:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Meh, I have not bought a mil-surp C&R from a distributor since '06 nor do I buy off of auction sites but I don't have any trouble finding mil-surp C&Rs to buy.
BTW....If you are limiting yourself just to mil-surps in the C&R game you are really missing out. Lots of nice 50+ year old guns out there for reasonable prices if you know where to look. I picked these up local in just the past two months. None are mil-surps but all are top quality guns and C&R eligible. Mossberg 46B (b) .22 w/ Parker-Hale sight. 
Manurhin 7.65 PP 
1946 S&W M&P .38 Special. 
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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:08:24 AM EDT
[#12]
The surplus C&R market may have slowed but the commercial C&R market is really going to pick up. Right now we are looking at 1963 guns and earlier. In 10 years we will be well into the 1970s, 20 years in the 1980s and things will really pick up. Not cheap surplus stuff mind you but plenty of quality commercial firearms that you can transfer to your home under a C&R. You will have to look harder, ask more questions, and do some research to prove the 50yo mark but I can see my C&R license being used a lot more. The flip side is that if sellers figure out they have a C&R AR15 lets say, the asking price may be raised and not worth it.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 1:46:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the 7.62x25 ammo drought sure killed a budding market... Serbs need to start cranking out the stuff. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:48:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The surplus C&R market may have slowed but the commercial C&R market is really going to pick up. Right now we are looking at 1963 guns and earlier. In 10 years we will be well into the 1970s, 20 years in the 1980s and things will really pick up. Not cheap surplus stuff mind you but plenty of quality commercial firearms that you can transfer to your home under a C&R. You will have to look harder, ask more questions, and do some research to prove the 50yo mark but I can see my C&R license being used a lot more. The flip side is that if sellers figure out they have a C&R AR15 lets say, the asking price may be raised and not worth it. C&R commercial guns will sky rocket in price. Look at Pythons as an example. Good quality Smith & Wesson guns are jumping up in price too. The days of cheap C&Rs are gone. Sure, they'll be out there but the internet is a double edge sword. Every person that has something now looks up the supposed value and prices accordingly.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 10:03:20 PM EDT
[#15]
There are any number of factors that have helped to dry up the import C&R market.
1) Huge numbers of firearms have been imported into the US since the 1950s, the well has to dry up sometime! 2) International Arms agreements have also slowed down trade in firearms and ammo. 3) Dealers in other countries have the internet too, and realize how much this stuff is selling for here. They raise their asking prices up to the point importers cant make money, and they don't buy. 4) Starting in the 1950's, more and more countries went to select fire service rifles. Those can only come into the country as parts kits without barrels. In my humble opinion, there were three "Golden Eras" in C&Rs. That was after WWII, when the world was awash in un-needed surplus arms. And, when China opened up and they dumped all the stuff they had been saving for a century . Then, when the Wall came down, and the armories of Eastern Europe emptied out. As was stated above. There are plenty of C&R guns out there, you just wont find any barrels of $15 Carcanos at the local hardware store anymore! 
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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:05:04 PM EDT
[#16]
FWIW, I just got an email that AIM has a bunch of nice Polish Radom (11) built TT-33 Tokarev pistols in... Decent price too at $229. Mine is already ordered...
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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:39:15 PM EDT
[#17]
I can't bring myself to buy a tt....they're so damned ugly haha
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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:49:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW, I just got an email that AIM has a bunch of nice Polish Radom (11) built TT-33 Tokarev pistols in... Decent price too at $229. Mine is already ordered... That import mark kills it for me... This is how it should be done: 
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Posted: 8/22/2014 1:13:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't bring myself to buy a tt....they're so damned ugly haha I can almost overlook the ugly, but I won't add any more calibers this year. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 10:35:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can almost overlook the ugly, but I won't add any more calibers this year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can't bring myself to buy a tt....they're so damned ugly haha I can almost overlook the ugly, but I won't add any more calibers this year. You snooze, you lose... there probably won't be any more next year... at least not at current prices. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:09:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You snooze, you lose... there probably won't be any more next year... at least not at current prices. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can't bring myself to buy a tt....they're so damned ugly haha I can almost overlook the ugly, but I won't add any more calibers this year. You snooze, you lose... there probably won't be any more next year... at least not at current prices. That's ok. I won't adopt that caliber next year either.  Kudos to those that got em though. I at least thought about it.
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:44:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no need to be so melodramatic. There are lots of great Enfields for sale out there. I've bought three Enfields in the last year alone! Instead of just checking the Aim Surplus and J&G Sales sites, and then shrugging and saying "Oh well, I guess there's no Enfields left", you'll have to branch out. Start keeping an eye on places like Armslist, Gunbroker, the AR15.com C&R EE, the Gunboards.com Trader Forum, and any other milsurp forum with a classifieds section. Enfields show up for sale on those sites all the time. Plus, when you go that route and buy an individual rifle from a private seller, you get to see exactly what you're buying before it arrives, instead of putting in an order for a random rifle from a large shipment and simply crossing your fingers. And you're often able to get them for a price that's below what a retailer would sell a comparable rifle at, if you're patient and you keep your eyes open. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think I would die happy for one more shipment of decent Enfields There's no need to be so melodramatic. There are lots of great Enfields for sale out there. I've bought three Enfields in the last year alone! Instead of just checking the Aim Surplus and J&G Sales sites, and then shrugging and saying "Oh well, I guess there's no Enfields left", you'll have to branch out. Start keeping an eye on places like Armslist, Gunbroker, the AR15.com C&R EE, the Gunboards.com Trader Forum, and any other milsurp forum with a classifieds section. Enfields show up for sale on those sites all the time. Plus, when you go that route and buy an individual rifle from a private seller, you get to see exactly what you're buying before it arrives, instead of putting in an order for a random rifle from a large shipment and simply crossing your fingers. And you're often able to get them for a price that's below what a retailer would sell a comparable rifle at, if you're patient and you keep your eyes open. AIM and J&G ship to 03 FFLs. From my experience most dealers and joe blows won't ship obvious C&R guns to 03 FFLs or even try to date guns to see if they are 50+ years old. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 7:28:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Then you aren't dealing with the right dealers and Joe Blows.
As stated, if you'll buy C&R firearms off of the various milsurp forums, which are populated by milsurp dealers and other 03 FFL holders, you don't have to worry about dealing with uninformed folks who don't understand how the C&R system works. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 2:39:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AIM and J&G ship to 03 FFLs. From my experience most dealers and joe blows won't ship obvious C&R guns to 03 FFLs or even try to date guns to see if they are 50+ years old. I've bought a lot of C&R eligible firearms from dealers and individuals through auction sites w/o problems... the only ones I have run into that won't are a few @$$#@+ dealers from northeastern blue states or CA that don't seem to understand that shipping a C&R gun to a 03 licensee in a free state is no big deal. Or the few 01's who think that all 03's are taking bread out of their baby's mouths or something... But those kinds are the minority even in those F-ed up areas of the country. I just noticed... DeadSled... IA... there's your problem... you've got my condolences, that place $_(<$ almost as hard as Nebraska or Illinois... And I think I can say that with impunity, since I suffered over 30 years there before I finally escaped. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 11:35:24 AM EDT
[#25]
If the current administration gets their way, surplus firearm importation will cease. Secondary market will be only source with likely price increases.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 6:38:01 PM EDT
[#26]
got an email from Century about Star Model B 9mm's instock for $309 is mighty tempting...must....resist
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:14:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Found, what is the story with the star model b, I'm not hip on the history
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Posted: 8/28/2014 8:47:16 AM EDT
[#28]
I wouldn't be surprised if the Feds move the 50 year bar when it approaches the 70's and 80's guns. Move it to 75 years or more likely install a hard year date for before and after being C&R.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 9:16:16 AM EDT
[#29]
I don't know that the ATF alone has the authority to do that, or that such action would hold up in court. 10 or 20 more years we should absolutely enter a golden era of C&R, where almost half of the guns on the shelf are suddenly eligible.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:25:00 PM EDT
[#30]
try wikipedia for more history on the Star Model B
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Posted: 8/28/2014 10:16:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Feds move the 50 year bar when it approaches the 70's and 80's guns. Move it to 75 years or more likely install a hard year date for before and after being C&R. There has been a lot of speculation on this topic. Fortunately BATFE can't do it on their own because their power to require licensing at all comes from GCA '68. It would take action by Congress to change that , which BATFE has asked for... IF they follow the rules. The concern is that Obama or the next president (likely to be Hillary since the powers that be appear to have decided that's who they want) will sign an executive order to fix the date at a point that BATFE would find convenient. Possibly even roll it back. I've heard dates thrown out before WWII or even before WWI. Whether such an action would be opposed by congress or stand up to judicial scrutiny is another story. But it is entirely likely that before he leaves office Obama will have re-slanted SCOTUS to the liberal side, and the next president may finish the job if he can't or further tilt it beyond recovery. This whole mess is something that we need to remain vigilant on or C&R will be rendered as moot on a national basis as it is in libtard ruled blue states like CA, MA, etc., or even worse. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 1:19:20 AM EDT
[#32]
He can't make SCOTUS more liberal without conservative retirements. That's not even in question. Let's not raise false fears with bad facts.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 1:57:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He can't make SCOTUS more liberal without conservative retirements. That's not even in question. Let's not raise false fears with bad facts. While he can't control conservative justice retirements... you never know when health issues by one of the conservative justices, etc., could give him the opportunity he is looking for. It may not be an immediate issue, but calling it a false fear is spinning an overly happy face onto things. Obama only has 2 more years unless he really pulls some kind of fast one... but it looks like it is entirely likely his regime will be followed by 8 years of Hillary. It is not a very safe bet to assume that all the conservative justices will remain in good health over the next 10 years, and given that the court is nearly split down the middle now, even a one seat liberal gain will very likely throw off the current tenuous balance in the court to the left. Two would completely shift the bias of the court to the point where I'd be seriously concerned about overt judicial activism to advance liberal causes. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 3:55:19 PM EDT
[#34]
I got my C&R just for the dealer discounts from companies like Midway USA, but they stopped offering them. Use to be able to save a few bucks here and there...
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Posted: 8/29/2014 4:25:03 PM EDT
[#35]
The milsurp market has always been feast or famine. And very difficult to predict. I suspect there is still stuff in Russia and the Ukraine but given the current festivities over there I don't expect to see much. South America has always struck me as an untapped source; unfortunately what little comes out of there seems to be hammered flat. Africa and India would also seem likely sources. Maybe they're still using all their old stuff.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 7:25:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While he can't control conservative justice retirements... you never know when health issues by one of the conservative justices, etc., could give him the opportunity he is looking for. It may not be an immediate issue, but calling it a false fear is spinning an overly happy face onto things. Obama only has 2 more years unless he really pulls some kind of fast one... but it looks like it is entirely likely his regime will be followed by 8 years of Hillary. It is not a very safe bet to assume that all the conservative justices will remain in good health over the next 10 years, and given that the court is nearly split down the middle now, even a one seat liberal gain will very likely throw off the current tenuous balance in the court to the left. Two would completely shift the bias of the court to the point where I'd be seriously concerned about overt judicial activism to advance liberal causes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He can't make SCOTUS more liberal without conservative retirements. That's not even in question. Let's not raise false fears with bad facts. While he can't control conservative justice retirements... you never know when health issues by one of the conservative justices, etc., could give him the opportunity he is looking for. It may not be an immediate issue, but calling it a false fear is spinning an overly happy face onto things. Obama only has 2 more years unless he really pulls some kind of fast one... but it looks like it is entirely likely his regime will be followed by 8 years of Hillary. It is not a very safe bet to assume that all the conservative justices will remain in good health over the next 10 years, and given that the court is nearly split down the middle now, even a one seat liberal gain will very likely throw off the current tenuous balance in the court to the left. Two would completely shift the bias of the court to the point where I'd be seriously concerned about overt judicial activism to advance liberal causes. Not to hi-jack the thread, but lets remember the approval of the Senate. If the GOP can get their thumbs out of their ass on social issues and win in the mid-terms, this is a huge protection. This check on the president has been used relatively recently, and uproar from the electorate about gun issues would certainly be a part of the Senate questioning. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 7:27:20 PM EDT
[#37]
India is a huge question in my head. They hate our enemy. They enjoy our money flooding in and need that cash as a rapidly developing nation. So why haven't importers found much in the way of surplus there? It has to be continued use...otherwise I'm missing a logical step
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:40:53 PM EDT
[#38]
India's arsenals have already been emptied of most or all of their spare surplus firearms. Masses of Indian SMLEs, 2As, 2A1s, P14s, etc. flooded into the country 10-20 years ago. What few surplus rifles remain in India are ones that are still in use with police units. (It's not uncommon to still see Indian police armed with SMLEs.)
However, there has been some movement towards replacing the various police Enfields with more modern rifles, after the 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai. (It turns out bolt action rifles don't tend to fare well against AK-47s, especially when the police had only a few bullets per man.) So there may be hope for one or two last surge(s) of Enfield imports out of India. But Indian rifles tend to be in rather rough shape, partly due to the decades of hard use in a tropical/subtropical climate, and partly due to lazy maintenance. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 11:15:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He can't make SCOTUS more liberal without conservative retirements. That's not even in question. Let's not raise false fears with bad facts. A young flaming liberal on the court is worse than an old decrepit flaming liberal on the court. |
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Posted: 9/19/2014 2:02:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Found some sub $200 Nagant pistols.
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Posted: 9/19/2014 5:20:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That import mark kills it for me... This is how it should be done: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5587/14586048309_6ab325b6ec_b.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: FWIW, I just got an email that AIM has a bunch of nice Polish Radom (11) built TT-33 Tokarev pistols in... Decent price too at $229. Mine is already ordered... That import mark kills it for me... This is how it should be done: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5587/14586048309_6ab325b6ec_b.jpg The safety kills it for me.
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Posted: 9/19/2014 5:43:30 PM EDT
[#42]
man tempted but I really don't need yet ANOTHER caliber to load for.
Not to mention I have so much 9mm laying around this might be a mixup just waiting to happen. (eh not really since I'm so particular and organized....but I say it so I won't buy this...man please don't post pics showing these look mint). |
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