Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 7/20/2014 7:10:43 PM EDT
Hive, here is a question: Is it legal to buff out the importers mark on a pistol, ie: a browning hi power from AIM. As long as no serial numbers are touched. I just hate the big billboard size importers stamps, Also this is a gun I will never sell or misrepresent as a non-import. Don't want to get in trouble with the law. Thanks in advance for your serious answers.
Link Posted: 7/20/2014 7:27:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Is it legal to buff out the importers mark on a pistol,
View Quote



in a word no.

Marking requirements[edit]
The law also required that all newly manufactured firearms produced by licensed manufacturers in the United States and imported into the United States bear a serial number. Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act and firearms manufactured by non-FFLs remain exempt from the serial number requirement. Defacement or removal of the serial number (if present) is a felony offense.

Link Posted: 7/20/2014 10:06:10 PM EDT
[#2]
This is all I could find in answer to your question.  If it were me, I'd contact the ATF, and ask them, if it goes your way, I'd request a letter verifying it.
Section 5861(g) of the NFA, it is unlawful "to obliterate, remove,
change, or alter the serial number or other identification of a firearm
required by the chapter" as well as Section 5861(h) which makes it
unlawful "to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or
other identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed,
changed, or altered." Section 5842 of the NFA requires that, each
firearm manufactured imported or made be identified by a serial number,
the name of the manufacturer, importer or maker, and "other
identification" as prescribed by the regulations. The additional marking
requirements are prescribed by 22 CFR 479.102, and include the model of
the firearm, caliber or gauge, name of the manufacturer or importer of
record, and the city and state of the manufacturer who made the firearm
or name of the country in which the firearm was manufactured. Pursuant
to section 5861(g) of the NFA, it a criminal offense for an individual
to obliterate any of the required markings found on an NFA firearm.


 
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 1:08:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Hive, here is a question: Is it legal to buff out the importers mark on a pistol, ie: a browning hi power from AIM. As long as no serial numbers are touched. I just hate the big billboard size importers stamps, Also this is a gun I will never sell or misrepresent as a non-import. Don't want to get in trouble with the law. Thanks in advance for your serious answers.
View Quote


The solution is to buy a Hi-Power from Gary Cole, CDI Sales on Gunbroker. No import markings, same gun, similar price if you don't want the CAI stamps.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 7:11:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



in a word no.

Marking requirements[edit]
The law also required that all newly manufactured firearms produced by licensed manufacturers in the United States and imported into the United States bear a serial number. Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act and firearms manufactured by non-FFLs remain exempt from the serial number requirement. Defacement or removal of the serial number (if present) is a felony offense.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is it legal to buff out the importers mark on a pistol,



in a word no.

Marking requirements[edit]
The law also required that all newly manufactured firearms produced by licensed manufacturers in the United States and imported into the United States bear a serial number. Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act and firearms manufactured by non-FFLs remain exempt from the serial number requirement. Defacement or removal of the serial number (if present) is a felony offense.




The importer's mark has nothing to do with the serial number, which is illegal to remove.  Most imported milsurp rifles have the import mark on the barrel, once purchased from the importer/dealer, barrels can be swapped out by the gun owner or gunsmith of his choosing with ones with no import mark without any violation of the ATF.  Many imported milsurp handguns have the import mark on the slide, there is no violation of the law to replace slides with other slides that have no markings.  As long as the serial number on the frame or receiver is not removed or altered, I don't see where the ATF forbids the removal of the mark by the guns legal owner, or his gunsmith.

Just my opinion.


Just to clarify; the above mentioned ATF regs are for NFA firearms, and for persons involved in the  manufacturing, sales, and purchasing of NFA firearms.

There are two kinds of firearms under U.S. (federal) law, title 1 firearms and title 2.  Title 1 firearms are long guns (rifles and shotguns), handguns, and firearm frames or receivers.  Most NFA weapons are also title 1 firearms.  Title 2 weapons are NFA weapons.  Title 2 of the 1968 Gun Control Act is the National Firearms Act (codified at 26 U.S.C. sec. 5801 et seq.), hence NFA.  Title 1 is generally called the Gun Control Act, (18 U.S.C. sec. 921 et seq.).  NFA weapons are also sometimes called class 3 weapons, because a class 3 SOT is needed to deal in NFA weapons.

These weapons may also be further regulated by states or localities, and while these weapons can be legally owned under federal law, some states and localities further regulate ownership or prohibit it.  The NFA Branch of ATF administers the taxation of the guns, and the registration of them in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.

NFA weapons are: machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a. silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, destructive devices and "any other weapons".

I do not believe that the OP's Hi-Power falls under the NFA classification. However, I am expressing my opinion only and not providing legal advice or a legal interpretation of the code.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 8:39:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Ggggggg
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 8:41:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 9:02:25 AM EDT
[#7]
sorry guys; you are right i misread his question. Its what i get for surfing the boards late.

Link Posted: 7/21/2014 11:36:25 AM EDT
[#8]
I have an old letter from BATF saying that it is ok for the end user to remove import marks.  However, some states have laws against removing any "identification markings" from firearms.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 12:19:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Only downside is some marks are quite deep.  You would end up buffing a trench into the gun.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 12:51:49 PM EDT
[#10]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Only downside is some marks are quite deep.  You would end up buffing a trench into the gun.
View Quote




 
If you want a spray on finish, then you could use Durafill (something like that) from Duracoat to fill the marks, buff it smooth and then apply the top coat of whatever Duracoat color you want.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 6:10:14 PM EDT
[#11]
thanks everyone for the answers. I would never touch a serial number, some importers renumber their guns, like my mosin its registered under a number given by the importer. But the markings on the current lot of Hi Powers from Aim are the business only and not a serial number. Again thanks for the great answers and your time. Ill post picks when the gun comes in. I ordered a MK3 before the sold out, keeping fingers crossed.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 2:11:23 AM EDT
[#12]
Nothing illegal I know of but as some folks will pay a premium for a mil-surp with no import mark I put the practice of removing the import markings in the "humping" realm.

You may want to remove the import mark for your own gratification now but when that weapon leaves your hands (and it will someday) who is to say that a unscrupulous future seller will sell it stating that it has no import mark?

Savvy mil-surp buyers can usually tell if a import mark has been removed or a re-barrel done but folks just starting out in the mil-surp game could be very easily fooled.

Hard to tell how many re-barreled/reparked Blue Sky/Arlington Ord. Carbines/Garands are being misrepresented.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 9:37:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 12:13:49 AM EDT
[#14]
my import marks was on the slide.

Got another slide with none on it and replaced it.

no more import marks.

Link Posted: 7/23/2014 1:30:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Are they really any more of a misrepresentation than any of the other Garands that have been rebarreled over the last 75 years?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hard to tell how many re-barreled/reparked Blue Sky/Arlington Ord. Carbines/Garands are being misrepresented.



Are they really any more of a misrepresentation than any of the other Garands that have been rebarreled over the last 75 years?


Given their extreme receiver wear yes, I would want to know it was a former BS/AO weapon. I've seen Carbine receivers so worn that when shot the slide jumps right out of it's groove.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 8:22:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
my import marks was on the slide.

Got another slide with none on it and replaced it.

no more import marks.

View Quote



There was an ATF letter addressing a similar situation & import marks - although I recall the letter addressing a Garand specifically with the import mark on the barrel.

One way to understand this issue is by analogy:  your mattress (when new) had tags on it that said something like "do not remove under penalty of law!" - but that does not apply to the buyer/owner.  It only applies to the registered business selling the mattress.

In gun terms, look at the Romanian WASR AK-47s.  Legally, they MUST be limited to 10 shot single stack magazines - FOR IMPORT.  Once they arrive on our soil, its OK to open up the mag well to take a 30 round or drum mag, replace a few parts, and sell them as something entierly different from what was originally imported.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 4:49:10 PM EDT
[#17]
This issue is a dead horse. It's not illegal to remove an import mark, it has nothing to do with a serial number and is not an identifying item to the gun.  People read too much into the verbiage in the NFA about markings. Serial numbers are the only critical item.








Link Posted: 7/25/2014 8:22:54 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This issue is a dead horse. It's not illegal to remove an import mark, it has nothing to do with a serial number and is not an identifying item to the gun.  People read too much into the verbiage in the NFA about markings. Serial numbers are the only critical item.
View Quote


Yes - and as is fitting to this C&R forum, in some cases:  SERIAL NUMBERS ARE NOT ALWAYS REQUIRED!!!!!  2 EXAMPLES:

1) a gun manufactured before 1968 that never had a serial number from the factory.  There WAS NO requirement for a factory to serialize a gun made before the GCA of 1968.  While MOST guns made before 1968 actually DO, in fact. have serial numbers, many did not - including many .22 rifles and some inexpensive shotguns sold in the USA.  I've worked at a gun shop that sold lots of old, C&R and antique guns.  Some never had numbers.  - there are provisions for selling these non-serial numbered guns.  And,

2) Home made guns.  Yes, it is generally lawful to make your own guns at home - including AR-15s.  You ARE NOT REQUIRED to mark such guns with a serial number - though I think it would be foolish not to. But if you make the gun for yourself, and later decide to take up a different hobby (or your kids find it after you drop dead) - it can still be legally sold off- even without the serial number.
Link Posted: 7/26/2014 9:37:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Not illegal to remove an import mark. However, I wouldn't do it because the obvious grinding/polishing marks would probably look worse than the import stamping. Besides, the import marking is an interesting bit of provenance. Personally, it wouldn't bother me.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top