 fatboyslim34
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Joined: Aug 2011  IL, USA
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Posted: 7/19/2012 3:47:48 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Nagant's are obviously one of the most inexpensive and easily available C&R guns out there right now but I know hardly anything about them. I'm not a fan of most Russian weapons but it's so stinkin cheap I figure how can I go wrong. Looking into them some though it seems like there are a lot of different kinds. What should I look for? I just want a shooter but I want it to be fun to shoot...not the clunky beast I hear about sometimes. Thanks Paul |
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Posted: 7/19/2012 4:11:14 PM
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 4:16:49 PM by TJ43]
There are a ton of models, variants, and nuances; but here are the basics:
There are two Russian manufacturers: Tula and Izzy. Izzys have a Triangle with an arrow plus a hammer/sicle/wreath, Tulas have a 5 pointed star. People tend to value Tulas a bit higher. Some say they are better finished. Ive never seen evidence that this is univerally true, but there it is. There are two common variants: the 91/30 (full-length version) and M44 (carbine version with folding bayonet). There are a number of other variants, but those are the two most common and the most likely for a first time buyer. Prices are usually around $75-$100 for a 91/30 and $180-$200 for an M44. Some earlier 91/30s had hexagonal recievers. These commands a bit more value (add $10-$20 on the price of a standard 91/30). Some say they are stronger, but there is no data to back that up. The round recievers were simply easier to machine in war-time. If you want one, AIM Surplus seems to be the best deal in town. I bought mine from Classic Arms and regret that decision. If I could do it again, I would buy from AIM. |
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Posted: 7/19/2012 4:15:47 PM
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 4:16:25 PM by TJ43]
I should say one more thing: you will see alot of people touting a "numbers matching" Mosin as something that commands a premium. This is a bit of smoke and mirrors. Russian Armories re-numbered parts when they re-arsenaled Mosins. So, a numbers matching Mosin is not particularly special or rare. It is not like finding a numbers matching U.S. gun or a numbers matchin German gun.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 4:21:02 PM
+1 of everything TJ said.
One thing that I see that's apparent with some Mosin owners is as soon as they get the rifle, they don't spend adequate time to clean off all the cosmoline. Then they wonder why they have a sticky bolt, or their trigger is not crisp. |
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Posted: 7/19/2012 4:35:07 PM
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 4:37:12 PM by Tim2031]
In before someone recommeds http://7.62x54r.net
Seriously, thats a good site. Don't spend a lot, take your time, they are not going anywhere. AIM is a pretty good deal, i just got a M44 from them and it was solid. If you shop around though, you maybe able to find a HEX with no accesories for about $100. However, the accesories maybe worth going with the AIM. They are designed to be fired with the bayonet attached and the wierd oval shaped screw driver tool is pretty much a must have. I always use it when I disassemble the bolt. As far as stripper clips, you maybe able to find some origanals on the EE or actually buying clips of ammo from AIM, but the chineese replicas work fine if you load them right. There is a tutorial on You Tube somewhere. Edit: the commonly accepted (in the US) shortening of the Mosin-Nagant is simply Mosin, the Nagant refers to the Russin M1895 Nagant revolver. |
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KB7DX
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Posted: 7/19/2012 10:13:45 PM
I agree with Tim...mostly. The statement "they aren't going anywhere" is somewhat true in the sense that there were a zillion of them made and about 1/2 a zillion in the USA. However, these are surplus weapons from a foreign former Soviet block country. The supply could dry up at any minute. The UN is trying to ram through this arms treaty so even if the US doesn't sign on, the countries these weapons are coming from may. Buy them cheap now while you can, and don't just buy one, buy at least two and a few crates of surplus ammo.
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Posted: 7/20/2012 8:20:57 AM
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
I agree with Tim...mostly. The statement "they aren't going anywhere" is somewhat true in the sense that there were a zillion of them made and about 1/2 a zillion in the USA. However, these are surplus weapons from a foreign former Soviet block country. The supply could dry up at any minute. The UN is trying to ram through this arms treaty so even if the US doesn't sign on, the countries these weapons are coming from may. Buy them cheap now while you can, and don't just buy one, buy at least two and a few crates of surplus ammo. Right. The finite quantity made, IMO, isn't really the "problem", it's a constantly shifting political winds that could make the supply dry up at a moment's notice. As for model selection, I personally like the bigger rifles better. I love the old M1891s, because 1) They're older and 2) They're huge. The M1891/30 is the model most commonly seen in the American market. It's somewhat shorter than the M1891 and the vast majority of them you'll see at gun stores are arsenal refurbished rifles. As was mentioned earlier, the vast majority of these rifles had their parts force-matched during this process and are not truly numbers matching in the way we think of. The M1891/30 (hereafter referred to as "M91/30") is the easiest Mosin-Nagant to find and many are great shooters. There's also plenty of them that are collectible also, from uncommon models such as the MO double and triple date models, the ex-snipers, the Tombstone "KO" marked rifles, Finn captures, Finn capture recaptures, ect. Part of the fun of shopping for a M91/30 is looking for the uncommon variants, many of which come in with more common refurbs and are rarely separated from the more common rifles. If carbines are more your taste, the M38, M44, and M91/59 are the most common models. M44s show up for importation from time to time and AIM might still have some in stock. again soon. I've run into quite a few M38s in the last year or so, but rarely see M91/59s any more. There's also Hungarian, Romanian, Polish, and Chinese variants of the M44 that show up from time to time. The Chinese especially vary greatly in condition, but tend to be in worse condition overall that rifles from other countries. Personally, I'd recommend picking up any M91/59 you find, so long as the price is reasonable. They are reputed to be great shooters and are in enough demand that you should have little difficulty selling it, should you not like it. Finnish captured, modified, and produced models and well-regarded as some of the most accurate and refined Mosin-Nagants ever made. You will pay a premium for one, but IMO not as much as their limited numbers should command. I expect that trend will change in the coming years as more collectors become educated about them and demand for them skyrockets. Now is a good time to buy one, if you have any interest in them. I suggest you go out and look at some. You are right, it's hard to wrong when you're getting a high-powered, center fire rifle with shooting characteristics more or less similar to the 30-06 for ~$100. It's the last rifle you can do this with, so far as I know, now that even "Cheep" Mausers are approaching $200 and above and ammo for them is pretty much non-existent, save for commercial. |
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1srelluc
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Posted: 7/20/2012 6:14:14 PM
Start yourself off on the right Mosin foot. Get a Finned Mosin (any flavor will do) or a 91/59. I never did see a Finn or a 91/59 Mosin that were not great shooters with better than average triggers.
Good Luck and welcome to the C&R addiction. |
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engineer1371
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Posted: 7/20/2012 6:54:42 PM
Originally Posted By fatboyslim34: I recently got a piece of paper that will empty my bank accounts Thanks Paul FIFY |
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Posted: 7/20/2012 7:44:42 PM
Buy a Finnish M39...
Nothing further. |
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Posted: 7/20/2012 7:48:50 PM
Originally Posted By cjroman:
Buy a Finnish M39... Nothing further. nah buy them all I have 1923 Izzy Ex-Dargoon On a 1917 Izzy receiver 1932 Tula 91/30 1937 Tula 91/30 MO/51 1944 M39 VKT 1944 M44 Izzy You can never have to many |
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Posted: 7/20/2012 9:21:10 PM
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
I agree with Tim...mostly. The statement "they aren't going anywhere" is somewhat true in the sense that there were a zillion of them made and about 1/2 a zillion in the USA. However, these are surplus weapons from a foreign former Soviet block country. The supply could dry up at any minute. The UN is trying to ram through this arms treaty so even if the US doesn't sign on, the countries these weapons are coming from may. Buy them cheap now while you can, and don't just buy one, buy at least two and a few crates of surplus ammo. Good point, I was thinking more along the lines of weeks to find a good one, not putting it off for months/ years. With the way the UN bs is happening you may not have months. The takeaway I was getting at is that I didn't want to see the OP, or anyone for that matter, getting taken for a ride by guys selling $200+ 91/30. I get guns America emails every day with advertisements for "the best I have ever received" 91/30 for $299. It's a '43 izzy.  |
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Posted: 7/20/2012 9:37:48 PM
Originally Posted By Spaxspore:
Originally Posted By cjroman:
Buy a Finnish M39... Nothing further. nah buy them all I have 1923 Izzy Ex-Dargoon On a 1917 Izzy receiver 1932 Tula 91/30 1937 Tula 91/30 MO/51 1944 M39 VKT 1944 M44 Izzy You can never have to many Yep, and the M39 is hardly the end all of Finn rifles. I far prefer the M28. M28/30, and M27 to the M39. The M39 is a fine rifle and I recommend one for every collection, but the earlier models have a lot to offer, as well. Personally, I think the Finn M91s are FAR undervalued, as well. |
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KB7DX
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Posted: 7/20/2012 10:38:42 PM
Originally Posted By Tim2031:
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
I agree with Tim...mostly. The statement "they aren't going anywhere" is somewhat true in the sense that there were a zillion of them made and about 1/2 a zillion in the USA. However, these are surplus weapons from a foreign former Soviet block country. The supply could dry up at any minute. The UN is trying to ram through this arms treaty so even if the US doesn't sign on, the countries these weapons are coming from may. Buy them cheap now while you can, and don't just buy one, buy at least two and a few crates of surplus ammo. Good point, I was thinking more along the lines of weeks to find a good one, not putting it off for months/ years. With the way the UN bs is happening you may not have months. The takeaway I was getting at is that I didn't want to see the OP, or anyone for that matter, getting taken for a ride by guys selling $200+ 91/30. I get guns America emails every day with advertisements for "the best I have ever received" 91/30 for $299. It's a '43 izzy. Agreed. There are many to choose from right now so don't be taken by the hucksters /cough/ Mitchell's/cough/ out there OP. In my short 7 year C&R addiction, I have seen M38's and M44's go from $69.00 each (when you buy 6 or more ) to what, $170 plus shipping now? 8mm Mauser was less than $70 a 900rd crate...shipped! And what is it now? ( I haven't bought any in years)
A very nice 91/30 should be no more than $120 shipped, many times less. I say $120 because it's what I'd pay at the local gunshop. The local gun shop has 50 or 60 of them to pick through so I consider it worth the extra $$ to handpick one myself. |
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Posted: 7/21/2012 8:24:26 AM
Originally Posted By tep0583:
Originally Posted By Spaxspore:
Originally Posted By cjroman:
Buy a Finnish M39... Nothing further. nah buy them all I have 1923 Izzy Ex-Dargoon On a 1917 Izzy receiver 1932 Tula 91/30 1937 Tula 91/30 MO/51 1944 M39 VKT 1944 M44 Izzy You can never have to many Yep, and the M39 is hardly the end all of Finn rifles. I far prefer the M28. M28/30, and M27 to the M39. The M39 is a fine rifle and I recommend one for every collection, but the earlier models have a lot to offer, as well. Personally, I think the Finn M91s are FAR undervalued, as well. I have gone beyond the M39 as well, I have a wonderful examples of both the M27 and M28. If I had to have only one Mosin the M39 would get my vote, the Finns had almost perfected the type by then. |
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