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kstarr
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Posted: 7/7/2011 1:05:53 AM
[Last Edit: 7/7/2011 1:09:04 AM by kstarr]
I think it's Italian and at some point it was a 6.5 rimmed caliber. But I think there was a conversion done by someone and I have no idea what the magazine looks likes. It has DF1534 on the right side of the receiver, 1889 Torino on the left, and P.P. with a circle around it stamped on the top. Do you think there are any remaining magazines for it anywhere? Maybe I'll spend this weekend cleaning it up but it worthless if I can't find a magazine for it. I'm sure it's not worth anything but I would love to shoot it.

Thanks for any insight you might have.









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Posted: 7/7/2011 3:52:53 AM
[Last Edit: 7/7/2011 3:58:39 AM by _DR]
Vetterli made 1889 6.5mm rifles - Torino would be the factory IIRC.

Here is another example

http://www.auctionarms.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6216187.0
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iamkris
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Posted: 7/7/2011 11:49:54 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetterli_rifle

http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/

http://www.angelfire.com/nh/milarm/vert71.html

http://oldrifles.com/Italian.htm

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=33312&view=next
ODA_564
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Posted: 7/7/2011 2:45:48 PM

M1870 Italian Vetterli

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The M1870 Vetterli was the Italian service rifle from 1870-1878, when it was replaced with the M1870/87 Italian Vetterli-Vitali variant. The M1870 was a single-shot bolt action rifle chambered for the 10.4mm Vetterli centrefire cartridge, at first with black powder and later with smokeless powder. The M1870 was based upon the M1869 Swiss Vetterli but simplified for economy.

M1870/87

  • 10.4mm Fucile di Fanteria, Modello 1870/87 Vetterli-Vitali
In 1887 (until 1896), the Italian Army began converting the M1870 to a four-shot repeating rifle, based on the system designed by Italian Artillery Captain G. Vitali. This conversion added a box magazine fed from a Mannlicher-style en-bloc clip, in the same caliber 10.4x47R mm as before. The conversion is indicted by a cartouche "ARITG. FAB. D'ARMI TERNI 1888" (date varies), on the butt stock. The center of the cartouche displays a Crest of Savoy and the word, "Riparazione" (Italian for repair) is directly below the cartouche.
Shortages of small arms appeared from the very beginning of Italy’s entrance into World War I on the side of the Allies. As more of the population mobilized for the first total war in European history, the supply of modern small arms fell short before the end of 1915 and a large number of obsolete Modello 1878/87 Vetterli-Vital were issued to newly formed regiments that were not expected to be in combat, however, troops carried these antiquated rifles into battle on several occasions.




M1870/87/15

During World War I, many M1870/87 rifles were converted to share the same 6.5mm smokeless powder round as the primary service rifle, the Carcano, by adding a 6.5mm barrel lining and a Carcano-style magazine. These conversions are not considered safe to fire with standard 6.5x52mm loads.



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BlitzPig
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Posted: 7/7/2011 5:20:30 PM
It does not use a magazine to load ammo, the mag is already there.

It has a straight "en bloc" clip that looks sort of like a stripper clip. The clip falls out of the bottom of the magazine when the last round is chambered. (I'm fairly sure that's how is worked, a common system at this point in the development of the repeating turn bolt rifle).
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surplusnut
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Posted: 7/8/2011 5:30:31 PM
If you want to shoot the rifle, you will have to load your own reduced loads. The clips for this rifle are easy to find and cheap.
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bigstick61
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Posted: 7/9/2011 4:56:47 AM
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
It does not use a magazine to load ammo, the mag is already there.

It has a straight "en bloc" clip that looks sort of like a stripper clip. The clip falls out of the bottom of the magazine when the last round is chambered. (I'm fairly sure that's how is worked, a common system at this point in the development of the repeating turn bolt rifle).


Looks like a Mannlicher enbloc clip/magazine system. If it is 6.5mm the Carcano clips should not be hard to find.
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dnmccoy
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Posted: 7/9/2011 12:00:44 PM
The stock looks to have a nice tiger striping to it, or is that just the pics?
ODA_564
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Posted: 7/9/2011 1:06:49 PM

Originally Posted By surplusnut:
If you want to shoot the rifle, you will have to load your own reduced loads. The clips for this rifle are easy to find and cheap.

You MUST handload for it.

Clips - http://www.combathunting.com/HUNTING_SPECIALS-Carcano_Rifle_Stripper_Clips_3_pack.html




The main issue is that this is a black powder cartridge rifle that was sleeve converted form a large (10.4mm Vetterli) black powder cartridge to a higher pressure smokeless powder 6.5x52mm. This wasn't a good idea it turns out.

Discussion on reloading for it - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=84158

Another - http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?3159-Shooting-the-Vetterli-Vitali-6-5mm-Conversions...

New brass - http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=1&categoryId=7427&categoryString=9315***652***670***9013*** - ain't cheap but since the rifle is unsafe with standard 6.5 Carcano, it is what you have to start with.

Dies - http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=691635

Of course you will also need a press, powder (that works with a safe load), case lube (supposedly this is a hard caliber to re-size), bullets, primers (and priming tool), powder measure, scale. etc. I recommend Lee equipment if this is the only caliber you are going to reload for.
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kstarr
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Posted: 7/10/2011 1:32:54 PM
Thanks for all the info fellows. Unfortunately I don't reload yet and probably won't be able to get a setup like that until I get a new house. I guess I'll just clean it up and stick it in the closet for now.
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