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FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/1/2012 1:36:59 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I am thinking of picking one of these up as CDNN has them really cheap and Black Dog Machine makes a drum magazine for it. Anyone have any experience with these?

holyshift
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Posted: 3/2/2012 10:19:56 AM
Local Duhnams store has one,had them get it out of the case,and has the drum mag with it. Seemed like an alright gun. Wasn't sold on it,kinda wanted to hear other peoples reviews myself.
crazykg85
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Posted: 3/3/2012 4:40:32 PM
I owned a PPS22 and I did like it. However, you have to use ammo that is 1300 fps or more out of the barrel to make the action cycle properly. I tried a few different types of ammo, but the only one I found to make the rifle cycle properly was CCI stingers. If you dont use the correct ammo, it will not cock the rifle-and that is EXTREMELY annoying. However, it was accurate, fun to shoot, and with the Stingers, the 50 round drums from Blackdog machine were worth the price. If you have any other questions let me know.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/3/2012 7:59:50 PM
[Last Edit: 3/11/2012 7:47:42 PM by FiremanFrank]
Thanks for your reply. I think I will go ahead and order one as I really like the look.

Edit. Ordered the other day from CDNN and it should be here in a few days. Also ordered a Black Dog Machine 50 round drum so time will tell if everything works.
holyshift
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:49:29 PM
Post up when ya get it and report back.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/15/2012 5:23:49 PM
Just picked it up today. It shipped with one 10 round magazine but I picked up two of the 30 round magazines from Midway and one 50 round drum from JoeBob.

It looks really cool but the range is closed for a SASS event so no shooting it until Monday. There does not appear to be a bolt hold open on the magazines which will make it more difficult to not dry fire it. Dry firing for most rimfires is a bad thing and it does mention in the manual not to do that.

Now for some pictures. Thread is useless without photos.













I have a vast array of .22 ammo so I will see what allows it to work. Not really concerned about accuracy but once I find out what works I will throw a scope on it and see what it can do. If it will hold 1.5-2 inches at 25 yards I will be happy for what I plan to use it for.
crazykg85
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Posted: 3/15/2012 5:35:23 PM
Originally Posted By FiremanFrank:
Just picked it up today. It shipped with one 10 round magazine but I picked up two of the 30 round magazines from Midway and one 50 round drum from JoeBob.

It looks really cool but the range is closed for a SASS event so no shooting it until Monday. There does not appear to be a bolt hold open on the magazines which will make it more difficult to not dry fire it. Dry firing for most rimfires is a bad thing and it does mention in the manual not to do that.

Now for some pictures. Thread is useless without photos.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/FiremanFrank/008-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/FiremanFrank/010.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/FiremanFrank/011-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/FiremanFrank/012-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/FiremanFrank/013-2.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj243/FiremanFrank/018.jpg

I have a vast array of .22 ammo so I will see what allows it to work. Not really concerned about accuracy but once I find out what works I will throw a scope on it and see what it can do. If it will hold 1.5-2 inches at 25 yards I will be happy for what I plan to use it for.



I had fun with my rifle. The mags from black dog will def. not dissapoint. Have fun! I really hope that it is not as picky with the ammo that mine was!
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:07:45 PM
So am I right that it doesn't have a last round hold open when the magazine runs dry? I am thinking of running the blackdog plastic .22 snap caps as the last round in each mag to keep from dry firing it.
Anaxes
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Posted: 3/16/2012 12:17:17 AM
[Last Edit: 3/16/2012 12:21:04 AM by Anaxes]
Nice rifles that Pietta made at some point during the '80's and maybe '70's. I don't know when production restarted, but they were quite rare until it did. Bring something like CCI Velocitor to shoot if you want to make sure it will function well, although Mini-Mag should be enough.

I have a few Italian rimfires and they usually work well if cleaned every few hundred cartridges. One useful tip is try using dri-lube as it doesn't attract as much fouling as typical oils. If it works with that sort of lube, it may keep it running a bit longer without cleaning.

Originally Posted By FiremanFrank:
I am thinking of running the blackdog plastic .22 snap caps as the last round in each mag to keep from dry firing it.


That's a fairly original idea! It shouldn't damage it too much if you only dry-fire occasionally.

crazykg85
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Posted: 3/16/2012 6:59:50 AM
Originally Posted By FiremanFrank:
So am I right that it doesn't have a last round hold open when the magazine runs dry? I am thinking of running the blackdog plastic .22 snap caps as the last round in each mag to keep from dry firing it.


yup. the snap caps are a good idea!
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/16/2012 8:49:01 PM
Haven't made it to the range yet but the 30 round magazines that I picked up from Midway have a last shot bolt hold open (raised follower). I am going to stick to using those and the 50 round magazine only. With a snap cap only in the drum mag this gun will be a lot easier to use.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/20/2012 12:34:59 AM
[Last Edit: 3/20/2012 4:58:01 AM by FiremanFrank]
Went to the range earlier and it initially functioned with the following: CCI stingers, CCI mini-mag HP, Aguila SuperMax (30 grain HP), Aguila High Velocity and Winchester 333.

After about 100 or so rounds it started to have problems. After a bit I figured out it was due to the stock to action screw coming a little loose and allowing the action to shift in the stock slightly. The screw has a very tiny slot and my screwdriver kit was too large so I will have to tighten it and try again.

The gun seemed pretty accurate with all the different ammo. I was shooting offhand and it was grouping good enough for plinking and general fun. I will eventually do a real test once I confirm I am good to go with it being reliable.

The 30 round magazines I picked up from Midway for $17.99 each have a bolt hold open follower. I will buy more of these and keep the drum for occasional use since it does not have a follower like that keeps the bolt open after the last shot.

Edit. Remembered the last ammo type.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 3/22/2012 2:41:07 PM
[Last Edit: 3/22/2012 4:01:50 PM by FiremanFrank]
I decided to clean it before taking it back to the range. I took the bolt out and one of the recoil guide rods on the guide plate came loose and allowed the recoil spring to move around. I know have a guide plate that needs repaired or replaced and a new recoil spring. This was after 100 rounds or so.

So I call Legacy and there is no factory warranty or support for this rifle so now I have to hope the guy they told me to call actually calls me back so I can buy the needed parts. I like the rifle and spending $20 on parts doesn't overly bother me, even though the rifle is new, but I would like to be able to buy them in a timely manner (if at all).

Edit: I heard back from the guy, who is Slaugher Gunsmithing in Nevada. There are no OEM parts available and he makes the commonly broken parts. A new guide plate and recoil spring are going to set me back $52.50 but what choice do I have? He says the guide plate is an upgraded version he makes out of tool steel so I guess that will keep that problem from happening again.

Hellraiser
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Posted: 3/23/2012 1:44:20 PM
Thanks for the reveiw, I saw one at a local gun shop and was curious about it, after the parts breakage and no warranty you are going through, I'll be sure to never buy one, thanks again for saving me the money.


crazykg85
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Posted: 3/23/2012 2:09:47 PM
I had heard of some other people going through the same thing. That is one of the reasons I "had" this rifle. It was fun to shoot, but I am not in a financial position to have a rifle that doesn't work or I can't find parts for. I am glad you have someone to fix it.
forever4
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Posted: 3/23/2012 11:37:57 PM
Over the years there have been quite a few cool looking .22's hit the market. I am old enough to remember some from long ago like that Luger .22 Erma I had...HAD... I was lucky at the time as I was taking machine shop in school and could make the new parts for it...the parts I couldn't find and that would just break anyway. Erma made this and a M-1 carbine in .22. It had a similar fate. They were cool looking but they didn't last and you can't get parts.

There is a reason Ruger 10/22's are so darn popular and why they make so much aftermarket stuff for it. They don't break, if they do you can get parts anywhere and cheap. In time some will learn this lesson like the rest of us already did. We sit back and watch these .22 firearms come and go. There is a reason CDNN had those rifles for a bargain price. They buy out old stock stuff and move it out cheap. Of course you have learned what happens when you buy an orphan. Hope you get it fixed right and that it gives you good service.
An Army Veteran and proud of it. Long time NRA member as we all should be.
BGENE
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:58:12 PM
Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Thanks for the reveiw, I saw one at a local gun shop and was curious about it, after the parts breakage and no warranty you are going through, I'll be sure to never buy one, thanks again for saving me the money.




+1 and thank you, guns like these are a lot of fun until they fall apart.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 4/5/2012 12:15:57 PM
Got in the replacement parts. The recoil spring is the same but the plate they ride on is much more heavy duty. Will take to the range and see how it does.

5StarGeneral
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Posted: 4/5/2012 1:54:12 PM
I'm so happy I stumbled upon this thread. I was so close to ordering one from CDNN. Thanks for the review....
grayparatrooper
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Posted: 4/7/2012 1:05:34 AM
[Last Edit: 4/7/2012 1:31:52 AM by grayparatrooper]
Hmm I still kinna want one I have always liked that gun and wanted one but the orig price was way too much.
mfdif
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Posted: 4/7/2012 2:36:12 AM
Very interesting .22. Like the look of it.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 5/18/2012 8:52:20 PM
Finally got a chance to shoot it and it was finicky on ammo. So I came home to clean it and I noticed the charging handle was loose. So I opened it back up and the heavy duty replacement recoil guide rod plate broke worse than the original. Both guide rods snapped at the base this time. It also then managed to damage both recoil springs. I have called the gunsmith who makes these parts to see if he will warranty them and am waiting for a call back. Nice gun but I sure wish it would work.


The gun has been to the range twice and has broken both times. Might be one to avoid.
booger-hooker
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Posted: 5/19/2012 5:04:14 PM
I have a NIB Puma PPS and an older PPS-50 that I bought used and have only taken out a couple times but I can't complain about it being finicky as I never cleaned it before taking it out to shoot. I have a friend that manufactured a full-auto sear for the PPS-50 that he has shot thousands of rounds thru in full-auto and I've never heard him talk of a problem like what you've been having. Look forward to hearing how you progress thru this issue. This thread reminds me that I need to order some BDM 50 round drums for mine and might even see if CDNN has these Pumas on sale as I could always use it for parts if it won't shoot.
mac1045
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Posted: 5/20/2012 2:58:18 AM
Thread over at RFC on the same topic; same complaints. New guns from CDNN - and no warranty for the first-trip-to-the-range beakages.

Real pity as these are sweet looking little .22's.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 5/21/2012 3:34:39 PM
Called Mitchell's Mausers who also sell the PPS but they don't have any parts either. They referred me to the gunsmith who sold me the parts that I used to fix it the 1st time it broke. Haven't heard back from him yet and hope that he eventually calls back or answers his phone. Sent an email to the manufacturer in Italy and maybe they can sell me replacement parts. The gun is fun but sure is a bit of a pain since it is so hard to find parts.
FiremanFrank
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Posted: 5/22/2012 6:34:13 PM
I sent an email to the manufacturer in Italy asking to buy the parts that are broken and how I just purchased the rifle. They are sending me the parts for free so I am quite happy.
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