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Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/17/2011 12:09:21 AM
For those of you who are like me, thinking that the MK22 is vaporware or another ACR cluster f^$& episode that will drag on forever; I am very happy to present proof that the MK22 is real! I received my two yesterday and overall I am very happy with them!

*******This is just a quick info and image post for now, till I have the time to come back and finish it up. I just wanted to give those of you that were like me, something more to look at for the moment, till yours arrive.*******

In the images, you will see the progression from the prototype to the final product. I like the final product the best (for the most part) and I am well pleased with the MK22 so far (have not shot it yet though). The only things that I am not crazy about, is the gas block (appears to be pot metal) and the molded in pistol grip, but I can live with it and I am just very happy that this thing is finally here! Check out the ambi, multi position, charging handle! Also, in the images you will notice that the upper receiver area looks darker on one of them, that is because it had some bad smudges when it arrived, so I oiled it to clean it up.

In short, for those of you that are on the fence about getting one, I think you will want to get it! To me, it is my favorite out of the tactical .22lr line up. I will go into more detail later, but out of all of them that I have held, the MK22 is the best look, quality, and feel overall (some of the others are real close though!). However, the ultimate test is how well it shoots, so my total endorsement is not there yet!


Enjoy!,

Red*Dawn





















benzo
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Posted: 1/17/2011 2:41:25 AM
Is the build quality better than the German sports gun mp5 clones? How does it take down?
bloodsport2885
Use of live ammunition is now authorized
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Posted: 1/17/2011 5:28:33 AM
[Last Edit: 1/17/2011 5:29:25 AM by bloodsport2885]
Well it looked like a SCAR, and now it doesn't. WTF?

It looks like a SCAR and UMP fucked.
Originally Posted By ecgRN:
Floridahunter had to get some one to shoot him. Twonami and I manned up and did it ourselves....

spector
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Posted: 1/17/2011 8:17:46 AM
[Last Edit: 1/17/2011 6:50:52 PM by spector]
First of alI.. I would like to think Red -Dawn for posting the pics, and for the information. Second.. I think with a little work, the front sight can easily be made back to what the real SCAR looks like. Also im in the works, on a different butt stock as having a..6 position instead of 3 position butt stock. Thanks again for the pics, I get mine before this coming Friday. I am going to do a big video reveiw of it. Thanks again Red-Dawn. Also I am testing 5 different brands of 22 ammo, to see if she is picky on what she eats.

Federal Bulk-Walmart 550 Pack
Federal Target
Winchester
Remington Golden Bullets
Aquila

Bear of....www.tacticalimageguys.com

Zamo
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Posted: 1/17/2011 7:02:42 PM
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
Well it looked like a SCAR, and now it doesn't. WTF?

Lawyers.
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/17/2011 7:40:33 PM
Originally Posted By benzo:

Is the build quality better than the German sports gun mp5 clones?

How does it take down?



Benzo,

From the GSG MP5's that I have held, I would have to say that the GSG is robust and very well built. When you pick one of the GSG's up, you quickly notice that it is the heaviest of the tactical .22lr line up, which makes it feel more like the large caliber line, so it has a slight advantage over all others in that regard I think. For me, I think that the GSG has quality construction and realism, but it was never comfortable for my body structure (tall with long arms) and I could never consider it for enjoyable shooting and why I passed it by. Also, IIRC, the GSG's that I held had some mag wobbles and I did not like that. I should mention, all of what I have said about the GSG is from on outside perspective, I have never cracked one open and studied the internal workings of one yet.

On the MK22, it has the best ergonomics out of all of them for me personally. Overall, it has the right amount of look, feel, and quality. None of the tactical .22lr line up are 100% perfect, but I would call the MK22 as being in the 'Goldie lock zone'. Not exactly identical to the SCAR, but close enough. Not too heavy, but not too light; just right for what it is. Not as robust in construction as the GSG MP5's, but really close to it. I have held all of the tactical .22lr line up, numerous times, and point for point, the MK22 has come out on top to me. I am glad that I took the chance on it.



Just in case this could be of help to any of you trying to decided blindly, not being able to hold any of the guns before buying them, I will mention these points about the multiple examples that I have held. When considering all of the key factors that were important to me, I would rate these as my top (3) choices in the tactical .22lr line up.

1). MK22: Adjustable length. Stock had only a very tiny amount of wobble to it. Mag has only the very, very tiniest amount of movement from front to back, but is solid on any side to side movement. Modular, offering lots of options.

2). HK 416: Adjustable length. Stock had only a tiny amount of wobble to it. Mag had a small amount of movement. Modular, offering lots of options.

3). SIG-522 SWAT: Adjustable length. Stock had a good bit of wobble to it. Mag had a little movement from front to back, but side to side movement was like a earthquake, horrible! Modular, offering lots of options.



I will take images from the manual of the take down for you and upload them as soon as I can get to it.


Red*Dawn
spector
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Posted: 1/17/2011 8:59:18 PM
Thanks so much for the reply. I am like a Big Kid at Christmas waiting this week for my own MK22!! Thanks again, and post pics of take down ASAP if possible.
frog5215
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Posted: 1/17/2011 9:40:27 PM
Originally Posted By Red-Dawn:
Originally Posted By benzo:

Is the build quality better than the German sports gun mp5 clones?

How does it take down?



Benzo,

From the GSG MP5's that I have held, I would have to say that the GSG is robust and very well built. When you pick one of the GSG's up, you quickly notice that it is the heaviest of the tactical .22lr line up, which makes it feel more like the large caliber line, so it has a slight advantage over all others in that regard I think. For me, I think that the GSG has quality construction and realism, but it was never comfortable for my body structure (tall with long arms) and I could never consider it for enjoyable shooting and why I passed it by. Also, IIRC, the GSG's that I held had some mag wobbles and I did not like that. I should mention, all of what I have said about the GSG is from on outside perspective, I have never cracked one open and studied the internal workings of one yet.

On the MK22, it has the best ergonomics out of all of them for me personally. Overall, it has the right amount of look, feel, and quality. None of the tactical .22lr line up are 100% perfect, but I would call the MK22 as being in the 'Goldie lock zone'. Not exactly identical to the SCAR, but close enough. Not too heavy, but not too light; just right for what it is. Not as robust in construction as the GSG MP5's, but really close to it. I have held all of the tactical .22lr line up, numerous times, and point for point, the MK22 has come out on top to me. I am glad that I took the chance on it.



Just in case this could be of help to any of you trying to decided blindly, not being able to hold any of the guns before buying them, I will mention these points about the multiple examples that I have held. When considering all of the key factors that were important to me, I would rate these as my top (3) choices in the tactical .22lr line up.

1). MK22: Adjustable length. Stock had only a very tiny amount of wobble to it. Mag has only the very, very tiniest amount of movement from front to back, but is solid on any side to side movement. Modular, offering lots of options.

2). HK 416: Adjustable length. Stock had only a tiny amount of wobble to it. Mag had a small amount of movement. Modular, offering lots of options.

3). SIG-522 SWAT: Adjustable length. Stock had a good bit of wobble to it. Mag had a little movement from front to back, but side to side movement was like a earthquake, horrible! Modular, offering lots of options.



I will take images from the manual of the take down for you and upload them as soon as I can get to it.


Red*Dawn


Sounds like a shill.

I haven't laid hands on a SCAR, but your assessment is, uh, interesting.

What could feel more like a tactical carbine than a genuine M-4 5.56x45?
That's EXACTLY what an M-4gery .22 feels like. Actual milspec forgings for upper and lower receivers, with milspec finishes on some models.

HK 416?? Are you serious? Just another Colt with different markings. Clamshell innards held together with machine screws. Trigger swap? forget it.
This is your 2nd favorite? Handle CMMG's cheapie Quebec. Besides a plastic buffer tube, the other parts would work with a .223 barrel and bolt carrier group.

GSG5s are so good the furniture breaks with regularity, by many reports.
Splitting the receiver to take out the bolt? Machine screws?
Are you nuts?

Sig seems pretty solid to me.

Try a CMMG Quebec or Quebec-A, or an upgrade for $499 and up MSRP, or a Spike's Tactical or TacSol upper on a milspec lower.

My info is that the SCAR is just GSG innards in a SCAR shaped shell. Might as well but a Colt; somebody's got them on sale for$399.

Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/18/2011 2:31:55 PM
Originally Posted By spector:

First of alI.. I would like to thank Red-Dawn for posting the pics, and for the information.



Second.. I think with a little work, the front sight can easily be made back to what the real SCAR looks like. Also im in the works, on a different butt stock as having a..6 position instead of 3 position butt stock. Thanks again for the pics, I get mine before this coming Friday. I am going to do a big video reveiw of it. Thanks again Red-Dawn.



Also I am testing 5 different brands of 22 ammo, to see if she is picky on what she eats.

Federal Bulk-Walmart 550 Pack
Federal Target
Winchester
Remington Golden Bullets
Aquila



Bear of....www.tacticalimageguys.com






Spector,

You are most welcome. I am glad to be of any help that I can. I spent months looking for info & images of the MK22 and day after day I could only find the same old stuff, so I wanted to post something for others that were like me, looking for something new about the MK22.



Yes, with a little creativity, I am sure that someone can conjure something up on the installed gas block. A custom gas block made by another manufacture would be another option as well. I like your idea on the 6 position buttstock and I would like to have that option for mine. Even though the MK22 is just at the minimum of being long enough for me (being tall with long arms), I could still use some more length in order for it to be truly comfortable for me.



I look forward to hearing your results with the ammo test. These are the types of ammo that I will be testing mine with. I am trying to mainly stick with the higher velocities. These have all received excellent reviews in other semi auto 22's, so I am hoping for the same results.

1). CCI / Stingers

2). Remington / Yellow Jackets

3). SK / Match & Standard Plus



Something else that may be of interest to you. I have been told that spare (22)rd mags are going to be hard to come by for a little bit. However, in February, there is supposed to be a (110)rd drum released for the MK22. I am crossing my fingers for that one and a quicker delivery to market than the MK22 was!



Red*Dawn
spector
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Posted: 1/18/2011 2:58:53 PM
Thanks so much Red Dawn for again, all the appreciated info you have provided. I will be selling a gas block that looks identical to the real FNH S.C.A.R. as a replacement for the ISSC MK22. If you ever want one, I will sale you one at cost. I always like to do things like that for those that share the same passion as me. That was the only thing I could not get over, the Gas block...no flip up front sight, and also no 6 position stock. Also I am certain I can make the 6 position stock work. Also I have the same problem with length of pull. I am 6'4" and lop is always a factor. I will post video this week for certain, even if its raining. It got shipped today via FedEx. Thanks again for your help, and info.

Spector
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/18/2011 3:40:33 PM
Originally Posted By frog5215:


What could feel more like a tactical carbine than a genuine M-4 5.56x45? That's EXACTLY what an M-4gery .22 feels like. Actual milspec forgings for upper and lower receivers, with milspec finishes on some models.

HK 416?? Are you serious? Just another Colt with different markings. Clamshell innards held together with machine screws. Trigger swap? forget it.This is your 2nd favorite? Handle CMMG's cheapie Quebec. Besides a plastic buffer tube, the other parts would work with a .223 barrel and bolt carrier group.

GSG5s are so good the furniture breaks with regularity, by many reports. Splitting the receiver to take out the bolt? Machine screws? Are you nuts?

Sig seems pretty solid to me.

Try a CMMG Quebec or Quebec-A, or an upgrade for $499 and up MSRP, or a Spike's Tactical or TacSol upper on a milspec lower.

My info is that the SCAR is just GSG innards in a SCAR shaped shell. Might as well buy a Colt; somebody's got them on sale for$399.





Frog5215,

If you will read my post again, you should be able to gather, I stated that none of these items were 100% perfect, that I was realistic about what these are for their type & price range (not expecting an exact replica of a $2K firearm in .22lr for a $500 price point), I did not know the internal workings of any of these models nor of their shooting abilities or overall durability with time, and that my assessments were based only on checking each type for the key aspects that were important to me for making my purchase of the types generally available to me in my area. I do agree with you that there are other options that I did not list, but those were not items that I had available to lay my hands on to consider from.


I was only able to check these items at gun shows, which are elbow to asshole deep in people bumping into you, and the items are not yours to monkey fart around with and study, while the dealer is constantly asking "Are you going to buy that?". I made the best assessments that I could, under the limited parameters that were available to me. Due to the two jobs that I work and all of the people that I have to take care of, I have not had the chance to crack open or shoot the MK22 yet. Hopefully, in the future, I will be able to do so and speak about more aspects of it than just the initial observations that one can make from handling it.


Red*Dawn
Sigurd
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Posted: 1/18/2011 3:50:25 PM
I own the ISSC "Glock" and I would never buy anything from them again.
frog5215
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Posted: 1/18/2011 4:45:39 PM
[Last Edit: 1/18/2011 4:46:53 PM by frog5215]
RD, next gun show, look up the mag well of the Colt, HK, SCAR.
On the Colt and HK, you see how the inner receiver is split longitudinally.
The SCAR I don't know
I've been messing around with AR conversions/dedicated guns 6 or 8 years now, they're not really replicas; they're actual AR 15s with rimfire bolts and barrels, with a few functional differences(like nonfunctional forward assist and bolt catch) which CMMG is now ironing out.
.22 ARs are as solid as what our troops carry into battle.
CMMG is bringing these down into the price range of cheapie (or not so cheapie, in the case of msrp)replicas.

I got spoiled.
My .22 AK is an actual folded Romanian AK with .22 barrel and bolt.
My several .22 ARs are the same way. My triggers include JP Engineering, Timney, and Chip McCormick; I'm thinking about a Giessele for my kid's LEFT HANDED(Stag receiver) .22 M-4. Try that with any of the AirSoft Armory you're examining.
I was really excited about the GSG5 until I laid hands on one. Colt? HK? Crap. Might as well be ArmsCor.
Except at blowout prices (and especially then) these things appeal to the inexperienced and to fanboys.
I look at them as cheap, junky, glitzy imports. HK416, Colt, SCAR?, GSG5, ISSC M-22, Chiappa 1911, GSG/ATI 1911, Sig Mosquito, Walther P-22.
If you have money to burn, go ahead, but don't expect the kind of service you'd get from a Marlin M-60, a Ruger 10/22, Buckmark, or Ruger MKX.
They're all zinc and plastic.

The truth is out there...
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/18/2011 6:14:40 PM
Originally Posted By spector:


Thanks so much Red Dawn for again, all the appreciated info you have provided.


I will be selling a gas block that looks identical to the real FNH S.C.A.R. as a replacement for the ISSC MK22. If you ever want one, I will sale you one at cost. I always like to do things like that for those that share the same passion as me.


That was the only thing I could not get over, the Gas block...no flip up front sight, and also no 6 position stock. Also I am certain I can make the 6 position stock work. Also I have the same problem with length of pull. I am 6'4" and lop is always a factor.


I will post video this week for certain, even if its raining. It got shipped today via FedEx. Thanks again for your help, and info.

Spector





Spector,

Once again, glad to do what I can. I have been trying to catch up on replies here today from work. Perhaps, later tonight, I can take and post images of the take down instructions.


I will be very interested in that when you get them done. I greatly appreciate it and I will be talking to you about that more in the future.


On the Gas Block, the problem that I have with it is the pot metal. I actually like the rail on the bottom of it. For me, the perfect combination on the Gas Block would be: made from better material, allowing flip up sight placement on top, and having the rail on the bottom. As far as the Stock goes, I would really like to have the 6 position, and I am looking forward to working around things to achieve this. On another item, just to be a bit picky, I would like to see some improvements made to the Charging Handle/Carrier, as it is a little weak. I know that some people will complain that the MK22 and others are not exact replicas, but we have to be realistic in that we are dealing with a .22lr replica market that has limitations; such as laws, costs, etc... . We are still in the early years for the .22lr replica market and over time maybe we will see vast improvements from where we are now, though there are examples available that are there or close to there for being like the "real thing" already. That is also part of what makes things fun to me in firearms collecting and in the past has even started new companies to make secondary custom parts or total new gun lines altogether. The constant desire to create, tinker with, and improve designs is a moving force for many of us. I spent time visiting with Mikhail Kalashnikov several times and he is a great example of someone making constant improvements to a weapons system. Kalashnikov told me once, designing a weapon was the easy part; overcoming the complexities of making it simple, functional, and dependable was the true test. This was from some criticism that he had received, saying that his guns were simplistic. He felt that many people did not give him credit for taking something complex and making the end product simple; whereas other guns had so many more parts that were needed to make them function. I think that we are seeing more of these simple systems that work well today, due to the efforts of those that take the time to create and make those improvements, as Kalashnikov did. As time goes by, the secondary custom parts market for the MK22 should spring up and perhaps, more options on factory parts and color choices for the MK22 could be available from ISSC.


I look forward to seeing that. I hope that yours will arrive soon and that you have more time to play with it than I have had so far.



Red*Dawn
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Posted: 1/18/2011 6:20:47 PM
Originally Posted By Sigurd:

I own the ISSC "Glock" and I would never buy anything from them again.




Sigurd,

I have heard some complaints about those.


Red*Dawn


Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/18/2011 6:30:40 PM
Originally Posted By frog5215:

I got spoiled. My .22 AK is an actual folded Romanian AK with .22 barrel and bolt. My several .22 ARs are the same way. My triggers include JP Engineering, Timney, and Chip McCormick; I'm thinking about a Giessele for my kid's LEFT HANDED(Stag receiver) .22 M-4. Try that with any of the AirSoft Armory you're examining.

I was really excited about the GSG5 until I laid hands on one. Colt? HK? Crap. Might as well be ArmsCor.
Except at blowout prices (and especially then) these things appeal to the inexperienced and to fanboys.
I look at them as cheap, junky, glitzy imports. HK416, Colt, SCAR?, GSG5, ISSC M-22, Chiappa 1911, GSG/ATI 1911, Sig Mosquito, Walther P-22.
If you have money to burn, go ahead, but don't expect the kind of service you'd get from a Marlin M-60, a Ruger 10/22, Buckmark, or Ruger MKX.
They're all zinc and plastic.

The truth is out there...




Frog5215,

I agree with you on that. There are other choices, that are better, but they did not fall under the options that I was choosing from, for what my needs or obsessions were

I appreciate you mentioning them and making this a more informative base of product knowledge, than what I was able to offer.


Red*Dawn
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/19/2011 12:07:47 AM
Here are some of the images that I promised. They did not turn out well, as I was in a rush, but it was the best that I could do with the time that I had.


Red*Dawn










spector
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Posted: 1/19/2011 1:14:55 AM
Thanks for the diagram. Is the barrel threaded, or can it take a suppressor or flash hider?
mac1045
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Posted: 1/19/2011 12:27:34 PM
Hey Red Dawn - Thanks for all the info!!!

I don't mind a "shell gun" - just as long as it is at least as well executed as the GSG5 (or the "HK416" is reported to be).
We better get used to these kinds of setups - it looks like GSG is in fact coming out with a .22LR MP44 in 2012!!

These "shell guns" allow a mfg to create a kewl gun without the kind of massive investment that SIG had done for their 522 Uber-rifle. (Which has paid off in terms of the best mag-fed .22 EBR in the known universe.)

Also - I'm betting that since ISSC OEM'd the GSG5 guts for their MK22 - the very same kinds of issues us GSG5 owners have faced - screws and nuts, riveted ejector, LSBHO - will also be in the MK22 as well.
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/19/2011 3:00:51 PM
Originally Posted By spector:

Thanks for the diagram. Is the barrel threaded, or can it take a suppressor or flash hider?




Spector,

Yes, 14x1 threads and Flash Hider is removable.

One of my fellow 'Kalashnikov Collectors Association (KCA)' members, Mitch (AKA: Brick, on most of the forums), makes custom muzzle devices. I think I am going to ask him about making up something for my MK22's.

Here is a link to his ACR ones. If he has anything that you want to purchase, tell him that Red*Dawn sent you and he will take care of you. He also works for Harlan @ NoDakSpud, which is also a fellow 'KCA' member, that makes AK, M16, & 10/22 receivers. Mitch and Harlan are both great people and super enthusiast of firearms. They will fix you up on your item needs.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=212388492


Red*Dawn
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/19/2011 3:50:00 PM
Originally Posted By mac1045:

Hey Red Dawn - Thanks for all the info!!!

I don't mind a "shell gun" - just as long as it is at least as well executed as the GSG5 (or the "HK416" is reported to be).


We better get used to these kinds of setups - it looks like GSG is in fact coming out with a .22LR MP44 in 2012!!


These "shell guns" allow a mfg to create a kewl gun without the kind of massive investment that SIG had done for their 522 Uber-rifle. (Which has paid off in terms of the best mag-fed .22 EBR in the known universe.)


Also - I'm betting that since ISSC OEM'd the GSG5 guts for their MK22 - the very same kinds of issues us GSG5 owners have faced - screws and nuts, riveted ejector, LSBHO - will also be in the MK22 as well.




mac1045,

You are most welcome.


Same here, I just try to look them over the best that I can to see which ones are constructed better for what they are. These are fun guns for me, so I don't get bent out of shape about them not being exactly like this or that. I realize what type of category I am purchasing from and I do not expect the moon and the stars from them, just shoot good enough so that my sons, my daughters, and me can enjoy them.


An MP44, really? Wow!, now they are starting to really expand their era scope.


Correct. I loved the looks of the SIG 522, but when I held it, I was really worried about feeding problems with the mag wobble that I noticed on all five examples that I picked up and also it was just a little to short for me. I am glad to hear that it runs smooth, as I never checked into it anymore after I held it.


Perhaps so, I can only cross my fingers on that not happening.



Red*Dawn
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Posted: 1/19/2011 8:22:04 PM
I am hearing some chatter about a camo version MK22, but I have not been able to find any images or get any clarification on what type of camo pattern it is in, yet. Hopefully, I can find out some news soon and I will pass it along as soon as I do.


Red*Dawn
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/19/2011 10:28:42 PM
I did not have time to take images of the mag in earlier posts, but I had a few extra moments tonight and I finally got this done. Both sides of the mag are identical.


Red*Dawn



spector
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Posted: 1/20/2011 3:13:31 AM
Thanks so much Red Dawn. I appreciate that link and the courtesy you have extended me. Will definitely hit him up for a FH.
Herr_Freud
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Posted: 1/20/2011 12:47:44 PM
[Last Edit: 1/20/2011 1:05:51 PM by Herr_Freud]
Got one too.


I tested out a number of different ammunition types (100 rounds each). 'CCI Standard' and 'Geco .22lr Rifle' performed flawlessly, whereas 'SK Rifle Match' produced several extraction failures, and 'Lapua Center - X' failed to cycle a number of times.

Shot rapidly at 25m whilst adjusting the red dot, these were the very first two groups (Geco):



After a bit of adjustment, the following two groups were the result (SK Rifle Match):
Red-Dawn
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Posted: 1/20/2011 1:34:50 PM
Originally Posted By spector:

Thanks so much Red Dawn. I appreciate that link and the courtesy you have extended me. Will definitely hit him up for a FH.




Spector,

You are welcome.

Well, your MK22 is supposed to arrive to you tomorrow, right? The count down begins


Red*Dawn


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