Hi everyone!

I'm f***ing stumped.

I'm looking for a plate carrier that does/has the following:


-Elastic cummerbund (inside, wraps around front just like iotv)
-Front of vest has Velcro that wraps around left and right side to don the vest
-pals webbing front and back

To give some visualization, this looks a lot like the air warrior vest, but with pals webbing added.  I love the air warrior, but I cannot for the life of me find anything similar out there on the market, and I can't find any used or new for sale air warrior vests.

I despise the front Velcro//buckle and flap systems that is the predominate way of donning the vest.  I just want to flip the thing over my head, wrap the elastic cumber bund around my gut, and smooth the sides around me and its f'king on.  It's lighting fast.  

Does anyone know where such a holy grail for me piece of equipment exists?  or do I need someone to just make this for me?

The Osprey Mk4? It has lots of velcro and an inner belt around the stomach. Not very comfortable, but a very well made armor carrier.

Thanks for the reply!  I'll go check it out.

not what I need, but thanks again for writing.

I'm not sure if what I'm looking for actually exists.  But any help is appreciated.

You mean like this but with MOLLE?

Attached File

I have a PC similar to that, he seems to be interested in one with an elastic underbelt rather than cummerbunds.

Crye Precision.

Tyr Tactical.

First Spear.

Ferro Concepts.

Blueforce Gear.

Diamondback Tactical had one called the TAS-MOLLE that sounds kind of like you described.  That may help your searching some. 


CHRIS

MAR-CIRAS?

~Augee

Slightly off topic...

I still scratch my head as to why everyone wants a plate carrier these days.  It is the last option I would go for in most domestic situations.  Soft/concealable vests are vastly more practical and provide more coverage that is relevant to likely threats.  Plates fit a very narrow set of threats and provide uber limited coverage.  A 9mm to the gut will end you in short order...and plate carriers don't cover much.  Soft vests, however...

If you are going to go overt with hard armor...go overt and get a full vest.  If you are going low vis...soft armor and stay low vis.  You could even get a low vis soft carrier that also accepts plates (best option).  

YMMV...not judging...just seems strange that so many people seek expensive gear that has little relevancy CONUS outside Mil/LE work.

That above vest is about as easy to conceal as soft armor, but stops rifle rounds.

I do have some soft armor cummerbund inserts I've thought about incorporating with the elastic but haven't gotten around to it.

Untill then I'm ok with just plates. In my TEOTWAWKI masterbation fantasy I understand that a shot outside the perimeter of my plate may very well kill me eventually. By protecting my most vital organs I am hopefully going to stay in the fight long enough to spite my foe, protect my wife just a little bit longer, and maybe make it to medical help. If I do 1 and 2 I'm ok not doing 3.

I've taken shots to my plate overseas and having a set is just comforting.

I also like to run in it.

I suggest the tubes cummerbund from First Spear if speed of donning is important.

I hate soft armor. It's too hot. I run a plate carrier with no soft armor under the plates for comfort and practicality.  I also don't like how soft armor changes the way you shoulder a rifle. Hard armor is SO much easier to move in and hold the stuff I want. Plus soft armor gets so nasty and the carrier smells. Plate carrier does not have that issue. I NEVER wear my soft armor when given a choice and ALWAYS go plate carrier only. Soft in the cummerbund gives you 90% the coverage of soft armor.

A 9mm to the gut will not end you in short order. A rifle round to your torso will end you in short order. Statistically,  you are more likely to survive a handgun round than die. The opposite is true for rifle rounds... a torso hit is likely going to be fatal.

Rifle plates stop as many handgun rounds as you may ever encounter, yet soft armor is no better than wearing a jean jacket when hit with a rifle round... pretty much zero impact on terminal performance.
While rifle threats may have been limited in the past, they are very common now. The coverage difference is small, an inch here or there. To me, soft armor makes little sense.

Why would anyone consider soft armor before a plate carrier? Seems silly outside LE use to buy soft armor for most situations.  Plate carrier is just so much more useful and comfortable.

We may be working off different assumptions-

I am assuming CONUS where threats are 90% handguns.  

Also, I am assuming relatively low vis...not fully jocked up for Falujah as that it pretty stupid outside of Falujah.  

By soft armor, I am talking a concealable LE type vest...not the Army or Marines Kevlar blanket of a vest that is retardedly huge and makes everything impossible.  

So, here is where I disagree to a point-

You need real coverage.  LE soft armor, when cut correctly, is not hot or a problem with mounting your rifle.  Plate carriers are a huge problem with mounting the rifle, assuming you are running ESAPI shape/thickness plates as high as they are supposed to be run.  Nobody I have ever seen could do it without resting the stock partially on the plate.  That is all kinds of fucked up from a shooting perspective.  I can run my rifle/pistol perfectly normal in a LE soft vest...no different.  I have never seen anyone that could do that in plates unless the plates were low down on the chest or swimmer cut...which is where swimmer cut came from.

Coverage for a plate carrier is a joke...even with the side armor.  Regular LE vests are already reduced coverage.  Going farther down is a point of negative returns IMO.

Most people survive handgun wounds because they get to a real trauma center in minutes...if that isn't your reality, plan to stop the bullets from penetrating your body.  Inner city shootings slant those statistics as there are ambulances 2 minutes out in the ghetto.  

Soft vests are also much cheaper than a real plate carrier and plates.  You can easily get a good soft vest for 4-500 bucks.  One decent plate can run 7-800 bucks.

Either way, I have both and use both...but my soft vest is far more practical 99% of the time.  In every situation where I could wear a plate carrier, a real overt vest is often more practical.  When I need plates...I generally need a full vest.  

YMMV.

Lots of plate carriers hold BALCS soft armor, if that's your thing go for it. However my theory is if i move fast enough and am mobile enough to get all the way behind cover then that's all the times better than getting shot but my armor made it survivable. I used to run a safariland vest under my PC, but when I got to looking at what was and wasn't covered, it wasn't that much area, and it became so much easier to move when I didn't have it on. Plus in a Texas summer the most likely kind of casualty is a heat casualty. Not having another 30 layers of fabric to hold heat in helps with that. I do use MBAV soft armor so I am weird, but that's not that uncommon.

I'll be the asshole...

Because they're not doing realistic threat assessments or considering realistic COAs in a "civilian SD/HD/SHTF" situation.  

Plate carriers are sexy and there has been an industry "arms race" to develop new plate carriers as fast paced, high risk, direct action activities have been getting more refined and getting more attention and receiving more emphasis (sometimes unnecessarily) with some organizations, many of which have deep pockets.  

Meanwhile, the shift in focus to operations in difficult terrain like the mountains of Afghanistan, and conventional military forces' requirements for more maneuverable plate carriers that sacrifice protection for reductions in weight, agility, and user fatigue have also elevated the "status" of the plate hanger/carrier as ubiquitous in the minds of many as well as contributing to the "arms race."  

As such, plate carriers have been more likely to be the latest "bright shiny object" on "tactical gear aficionados'" radar.  

Meanwhile, many forget that practically everywhere but the United States, pistols are largely regarded as a marker of status more than a practical weapon, and consequently tend to both be less common, and less likely to be used, compared to cultures of conscripts, child soldiers, and low class/caste fighters with long guns that dominate many foreign threat areas.  

Yamamato may be frequently misattributed with saying that there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass in the U.S., but it belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the threat in the U.S., it's less the rifle behind every blade of grass you need to worry about, as it is the pistol around every corner.  

The reality of it is that most people have neither the discipline nor physical conditioning to wear body armor of any type more or less full time in "preparation" for an exceedingly unlikely public attack/active shooter threat/terrorist act, while in an "HD" situation, the most likely scenario is that there will be no time, and frankly no point to donning the body armor versus a realistic response (too many people imagine doing a one-person "commando clear" when they hear the downstairs window break).  Meanwhile, in the apocalyptic "SHTF" situation, most folks would be better suited with something like ALICE suspension and load-carrying gear and sneaking around, rather than being "kitted up" as if preparing for a one-to-two hour long offensive operation with front facing plates and ballistic protection--and again, mostly lack the physical conditioning for long-term wear of hard plates and body armor, something which is far different from the type of conditioning you get from daily trips to the gym to "get swole."  

At the same time, both as the nature of overseas threats and operations (both real and projected) have begun to shift, and as the plate carrier "market" has stabilized, and the plate carrier has begun to "plateau" in its development, "Lo-Vis," both soft and hard plate carrier solutions have started becoming more popular, and industry leaders have been shifting their attention to more low profile/vis designs for a while now, many of them are still little more than updated plate hangers, though things like the Crye LVS are shifting back to more soft armor solutions and coverage.  These kinds of things, I think, are far more practical options for "the average" civilian enthusiast/SD/HD/SHTF planning scenario than offensive/DA-focused "overt" hard-plate carriers covered in pouches and padded battle belts with tons of crap hanging off them.  

::shrug::

I, like you, am not trying to judge, and I don't see anything wrong with people spending money as they see fit, I am certainly not the final arbiter of what people do or do not need to have or should be allowed to have--but I do agree that in my mind, the commonly selected solutions often do not fit the realistic range of circumstances or threats.  

At the same time, I do also respect the mentality that one member mentioned, and that to a certain extent I share--after you've spent enough of your adult life wearing plates and having them available, it's comforting to have continue to have them around and ready to go, even if the chances of needing them are infinitesimally small.  

~Augee

Even in overt LE entry work, I'd still hesitate to go with a PC over an entry vest (soft & hard) absent certain circumstances, namely HR and active killer. Pistol threat is still primary in US. Still don't like daps or dick flaps.

You're not weird. I kinda like the idea of MBAV as bridging the gap between PC and AC. If I had to pick just one style for the overt, jocked up stuff, it would be MBAV. However, domestic LE work being what it is though, we have the ability to take a "golf club" approach to equipment. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad.

@augee - Crye LVS is sexy. Had the pleasure of being able to see it at various stages of development. I have a Velocity ULV for that kind of stuff, but I really consider coming out of pocket for the LVS. If we did more low vis work, I'd probably already have one. It truely is a revolutionary development in concealable soft armor.

Crye LVS

I wear a Large SAPI and my rifle stock seats normally, right into the shoulder pocket. Now I have to be clear on three things.

1. You have to consider the butt height. You cant stick a big ol A2 in there... you need a shorter profile stock tail. I personally cant shoot the old school military style telestock, its too short and pops up on me but a BCM or a LWRC or any shorter tailed collapsing stock fits fine and does not come down far enough to make the SAPI interfere.

2. I only use or recommend plate carriers that have nothing on the shoulder. I use a JPC, but there are several that have only some thin fabric in the shoulder pocket... if you have padding or buckles or something else there you will have problems. I was at a class today and a local SWAT team chose First Spear plate carriers and they cant shoot without the butts of their rifles sliding off, so they resort to placing the rifle inside the shoulder strap more center-line which is very awkward to compensate. The gun in essentially under the dominate eye. I have no idea how they shoot prone like that either.

3. I am not a narrow shouldered guy. If you have narrow shoulders, perhaps you will have problems. I don't. YMMV

My personal belief is that if a plate carrier interferes with your normal shouldering of a rifle, get a new carrier that does not. If your plate interferes with shouldering a rifle its too big, so get a new one that does not. A proper plate and carrier will let you shoot like you normally would, almost as if you were wearing no armor at all. I just would not prefer the plate carrier if it were any other way, nor would I accept it any other way. Combination soft and hard armor carriers, in addition to being heavy when loaded up, covers the shoulder pocket. No thank you. I prefer mobility and accuracy over extra armor. Extra armor only helps when you get hit in that extra area. It harms your performance every second unitl that moment. That is not a trade off I am willing to make.

I see there is a "its too hot in Texas for soft armor" theme here. In the summer its HOT and HUMID here. I did patrol for many years and the soft armor is ridiculous within an hour. You MUST retreat to your vehicle and cool off in under an hour or you become at risk. Heavy exertion for hours is not possible.

I just spent a full day shooting with my plate carrier on today as part of a multi-day class. I was not even hot. I have 2nd degree sunburn, but was just a little sweaty, not dying of heatstroke like I would have been in soft armor. Soft armor covers my shoulder pocket. This makes rifle shooting harder for me. When I will use a pistol, I use soft armor (like patrol). But if its crazy active shooter, or high risk warrant service, or going to the hood to locate someone in a dangerous area or anything that might require a rifle, I wear a plate carrier... an overt plate carrier. People ambush police all the time and when they do so, it is usually with a rifle nowadays. Anyone with a rifle can be mistaken for police IMO. I do not subscribe to the grey man theory with a rifle. A rifle and mags is never grey man. Just wear what works best, AKA a plate carrier. I have also never been in someone's home and had them comment about my plate carrier if I did not have a rifle... complain or comment about a rifle? Yes, many times people made comments about a rifle being unnecessary or not desired in their home or apartment complex. People don't care about your armor, they care about your long gun, in my experience.

TODAY a man opened fire on police and paramedics in Dallas. Initial reports state he used a rifle, not handgun. We have lots of rifle shootings here.

I also believe that someone with concealable armor is more likely to be attacked by someone with a pistol or a rifle. The guy with a pistol sees you as unarmored. The guy with a rifle sees you have no plates.

I also don't like soft armor for backface mitigation. I think some pontoon set up that increases airflow and stands off the plate is a better idea... again for cooling. Texas colors your proprieties. Soft armor is totally non breathable and covers every square inch of your body closely and just makes you a hot sweaty mess. With a plate carrier, I can ride in a car and stake out people all day no problem. I can wear it all day outside, no problem. It requires zero exertion to move around in it. It wears better than my soft armor which is lighter IMO. I am more comfortable in a micro battle belt and plate carrier than in a soft vest, patrol uniform, and sam brown.

Now, if you need to do concealed handgun and concealed soft vest, that LVS looks awesome. I cant think of many situations you would need it though, outside of undercover work, bodyguard work, or if you worked in a job employed by a cartel.

Whatis the difference between an overt vest and a plate carrier? Is it a combo thing like an IOTV or a CIRAS?

I have the Mayflower LPAC and it's my favorite piece of kit-- elastic cummerbunds allow quick on and I can quickly plus up my loadout or run slick if need be.

Like what some posters mentioned, if this is CONUS, I would want soft armor-- when was the last time you heard of a shooting in your area involving a rifle? Compared to shootings involving pistols? I know thots would lay themselves in front of us 24/7 when we rock our Crye JPCs, but you need to be realistic about the threats you face.