I've been wearing soft level III armor for a few years now on duty (under my uniform), however given the new climate facing LE, I picked up an outer plate carrier (with soft level III armor) inside it. It gives over the uniform and holds (2) 10x12 plates and two small side plates.

Can't decide if I should go level IV Ceramic (Paraclete) plates  or level III AR500 steel plates. Remember this is going in front level III soft armor in an outer carrier (over a uniform shift). Once I start wearing this I'll obviously stop wearing my issued soft armor underneath my uniform.

I'm open to all suggestions and any other LEOs suggestions

TIA

Ceramic plates

Or

Coated/Curved Steel Plates

I say ceramic armor.  But what are the particulars of your needs in terms of comfort and threats?  Now I haven't really paid much attention to AR500 or whatever number armor in a few years but my understanding is that it is heavy as shit and still doesn't stop green tip M855.  If that's not the case, someone can correct me.  

You are in Florida so I'm sure you've thought about the added weight of hard armor.  Either you're a PT stud or you're looking to lose a few pounds in water weight .  Personally a plate carrier tossed on over my issued IIIA soft armor is where it's at.  I would rather take a second to pull over and don my carrier than suffer the whole southern summer long.  

Do you or your guys find AR's at crime scenes?  If so, what's in the mags?  We find a random mix of corroded shit from Walmart white box to Wolf steel case to M855.  I think the M855 is from burglaries and with the meth problems we have here, there are a lot of break ins.  




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Are you wearing plate backers with plates? Or an armor carrier (concealment cut / BALCS cut) with plates? Hopefully the latter. Either way, rifle plates aren't exactly practical for daily wear as a patrol officer, unless you are springing for something like Velocity API plates, and even then... The number one threat to police is still handguns. Wearing just plates, or plate sized soft armor, dramatically reduces your safety. As a patrol officer, your best defense is situational awareness, physical fitness, and training.

Edit: Steel is a no go (M193 / spall), as is poly (M855 / thickness). You're a professional, you need what professionals use - ceramics.

I was looking at the ceramic/poly hybrids for a outer carrier. They seem to be the best compromise of weight/thickness and they stop M855.

The cheaper ceramic plates are a bit heavy for every day wear. I did it in the army, I just don't think the threat level warrants it for a patrol cop.

The thickness of anything other than steel plates would also be an issue. Adding 2 inches of thickness to your vest is a big deal when driving a car all day.

I'll probably puchase something later this year just to have it. Don't know that I'll actually wear them.

Wearing plates for daily duty use is going to get real old real fast, both in terms of heat and weight.  That goes double if you have any sort of heat sensitivity or previous back/hip injuries.

IMHO, keep your current soft armor setup and build a plate carrier.  I have a Banshee with 2 ceramic plates, 2 AR mags, IFAK, and 5 12ga 00B shells.  It rides on my front passenger side of my LE car, stuffed behind my duty bag with one side unfastened and I can have it on in a few seconds.

For starters Im assuming when you say level III soft armor you actually mean IIIA as lvl III armor is provides rifle protection and is hard ceramic, steel or polymer.

I would still continue to wear a soft armor vest under your uniform. Its very light weight at only a lb per square foot, flexible and excellent at stopping pistol rounds which according to the FBI accounts for 97% of all shootings. Plus soft armor provides WAY more coverage that plates do. Put plates in your PC and toss it in your trunk or in the passenger seat. If you find yourself in an active shooter situation you can just toss it on and have rifle protection.

I would avoid AR500 steel, they are very heavy and can be defeated by numerous types of rounds including M193 and steel core ammo all of which is fairly common, lvl III ceramic will be much lighter and have no problem stopping these rounds. You can go with lvl 4 ceramic if you want to be sure to stop higher powered AP rounds, it only adds a few pounds.

Lots of AK shootings. Almost weekly. Fortunately not directed toward us. It won't be worn all shift, just during our 3-4 shootings/stabbings or in progress robberies/burglaries a shift.

I will be wearing level III under my vest and the plates/level iii armor over the inform and other armor during above listed situation.

I won't be wearing it daily/all shift. I already have a carrier w level IIIA soft armor in it, just needs plates. Reading through I'm leaning toward ceramic...

That's what I plan on doing. And yes level IIIA soft armor (point blank to be exact).

Plates all day sounds very unfun, especially in Florida.

Since you will already be wearing IIIA, maybe get III of IV ICW plates.  You will save a little in weight and have the same protection.  If you feel 855, 7.62 steel core, etc are realistic threats I'd go with a level IV or III that is "rated" for those threats.

I'd get level IV-ICW plates, the lightest you can afford.

Got any sources??

Some good options here http://www.midwestarmor.com/body-armor and here http://store.atarmor.com/category_s/1909.htm.

The level iiiA soft armor is point blank...thinking of marrying it with Paraclete (point blanks ceramic plate division). Anyone have any experience?

Paraclete is GTG, just be sure to get multicurve if you're actually going to be wearing it.

Unfortunately I have very little clue about the current market.
Did you see this? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_10/474900_20--Off-Highcom-Hard-Armor-Plates-Rest-Of-February--Code---EST1997.html
And this: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_76/1949828_Need-to-take-an-informal-poll--READ-ALL-CHOICES--multi-allowed--on-patrol-Armor.html&page=1&anc=64708335#i64708335

Everything I've ever seen made by Paraclete (not much) has been very high quality gear.

My agency doesn't issue hard plates. All the SWAT guys around here have had to source their own stuff. I run old (but pristine) black SAPI plates in my rig. They're rated IV-ICW and I have IIIA backers in my DBT carrier. Back when I was on patrol, I omitted the IIIA backers in favor of leaving my IIIA patrol vest on underneath when I donned the carrier.

All I can tell you about price/performance is that once you hit "actually certified by NIJ Level IV, or IV-ICW" then you're just paying for features. Lighter weight is a feature. Multi or triple-curve is a feature. Spall-protective coating (like the ESAPI has) is a feature. I would stay away from the "Level III+ special threat" stuff, and strictly go by the product's certified NIJ rating. Many vendors advertise a threat level without even obtaining certification, so be careful.

Try to find a place somewhere that actually has some different models to touch and hold, if you can.

I'd keep wearing your soft armor under your uniform and keep a low pro plate carrier with icw lvl4 plates. Even SAPI plates would be OK imo.

Get ceramic. Steel is a no-go, IMO.

https://www.pointblankenterprises.com/paraclete/assets/10048-hard-armor-plate-2017.pdf

http://www.pointblankenterprises.com/paraclete/assets/10046-hard-armor-plate-2017.pdf

Thinking of maybe one of these...10x12 multi curved shooters cut

Get the thinner/lighter one. 1.2" over your 3A soft vest is gonna suck. Make sure you have something soft and symmetrical on your lower back/belt if you are going to ride in a car all day with heavy armor, like a trauma kit.

Make sure it's soft. Keeping hard objects at 6oclock is a recipe for a fractured vertebrae.

I think you'd be better off with a foam block or pillow that stays in the car.

There's nothing on my back. All my gear on my belt is up front and on the sides. Nothing past 9 or 3 o'clock

Thinner one is NIJ 101.04 vs the other is 101.06

Rma has a $99 level 4 sale right now.

We issed ceramic this year.  Every sworn deputy has the plates to put on or wear as they see fit.   They can set it up as they see fit, use the issued carrier or buy their own.
For duty, ceramic is king.
This is what we issue with a carrier..
http://highcomsecurity.com/collections/plates

And that matters not at all for you.

Thanks for such helpsul insight. From what I understand the .06 is a newer NIJ testing rate...?

 

Very nice, not so much for us. Priorities are elsewhere.

http://m.galls.com/paraclete-triple-curve-level-iv-rifle-plate?PMSRCE=GAPLA&gclid=CPDV57eNstICFZcDhgodRssEhw

On sale for $170 a plate and free shipping. Thinness under 1", little on the heavy side at 7.3lb.

Thoughts?

Nobody?

Anyone ever order from bulletproof me?

Again... I am also a police officer. My duty belt has nothing on the back but cuff cases at kidney points. My belt for use with a plate carrier has a trauma kit at 6 oclock.

You wont like plates with an empty lower back in the car for long. It was a suprise to me. Know it going in.

Multiple orders by people in my dept. No problems at all.

https://www.scorpiustactical.com/products/10-x-12-ceramic-body-armor-triple-or-single-curve-in-conjunction-nij-iv?variant=490605013&utm_source=TPA%20On%20Google%20Shopping&utm_campaign=TPA%C2%AE%20-%20Microbid&utm_medium=cpc&product_id=1159&device=t&loc_physical_ms=9011899&gclid=CIuCmquA1dICFUFahgodPKQGKg

http://www.tacticalscorpiongear.com/gear/body-armor/level-iv-sapi-plates/level-iv-lightweight-alumina-pe-curved-armor-10-x-12-plate/

http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.html#Lightweight

Thoughts?

I sell body armor to security guards and police in departments that don't issue armor, here's my take. You want plates that you can wear without issue for several hours on end, I understand that you don't want to wear it all shift. So you're going to want plates that are light enough not to hurt your back. Between that, the issue with M193, and spalling that knocks steel out of the running. That leaves PE and ceramics as well as PE/ceramic composites. You're going to want to keep your soft armor since the most likely threat to you as an officer is a pistol or knife and soft armor covers more area. While soft armor doesn't stop stabbing vests that can stop knives and bullets exist. I'd recommend some kind of PC over if you're looking for something you can just toss on. The Grey Ghost Minimalist plate carrier is one of the best for that, and at only about $100 it's a great value. For the plates themselves I lean towards Polyethylene, my reasoning being that it's the lightest weight. Most PE stand alone plates are very bulky because they have to meet the required BFD standards, but plates that are ICW(In conjunction with) soft armor are much thinner often less than 3/4 of an inch. It's a very good option if you don't think M855 is a threat. Most PE plates can stop 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 steel core ammo as well since they're slower than M855. If you do feel M855 is a threat than a level III ICW plate is probably the thing to use. Remember while level IV plates can stop AP threats they are only rated for one hit. Companies are deceiving with this, they'll use phrases like multi hit by which they mean they can stop mutiple hits of non AP or will stop two AP rounds spaced very far or won't meet BFD specs. One way companies might make level IV "multi hit" plates is what's called a ceramic tile array. That means the plate is made

of multiple ceramic plates over a Kevlar or PE backing each one being enough to stop a AP round, however if one tile is hit the whole tile become useless. Monolithic plates usually have more damage to the whole plate when hit, but will stop rounds fired closer to the initial hit. Level III plates must stop 6 .308 rounds that are pretty close together so tile arrays usually aren't used. Don't trust that a plate can meet both standards unless it explicitly states that it meets both. Avoid plates that say that they are made overseas or made of overseas components unless they explicitly say they are not from china. The material the plate is made of also matters. Alumina/AL2O3 is the cheapest, but also the heaviest. Silicone carbide is more expensive, but lighter. Boron carbide is the most expensive but it's one of the hardest materials known to man. People may also mention that PE plates don't hold up in heat, however I've left plates in a black car in the Texas heat for a month and I had no degradation of the plate when I shot it. What's called speed plates are also another good option they are either IIIA or special threat rated and they can be PE or ceramic. They offer limited rifle protection but are often much lighter than regular plates. You're also going to want multi curved plates, it's so so so so much comfortable than single curve. I like this company http://americanblastsystems.com/lightweight-ballistic-plates/ most of their plates are in the 300 dollar range.

Wound up with Paraclete level III multi hit PE plates. About 3lbs a piece. The level IV were too insanely heavy and didn't feel the threat level justified he added weight.

Excellent choice