***Update: Finally got a call from G Code's LEO rep today (1/26), I assume because they saw this thread… They requested me to send it back for examination so I will get that done this week or early next. ***

So early December 2016, I had a catastrophic failure with the RTI mounting system causing my holstered weapon to come off the belt. Before anybody jumps on me, I have attempted countless times to get in touch with G Code with no response since the week it happened. I got close one time, I was put on hold when I called during business hours waiting for someone to discuss the issue, and about 5 minutes later they just hung up on me with no answer on callback… I have re-sent my email after about a week each time, just as they ask on their website.

Background, I am a cop with a large department in the DFW area. I work in a street crimes unit, and we respond on a regular basis with K9 for searches. On this night we had located a fleeing felon using air and K9. Once he was narrowed down to a yard, we prepared to make entry and I took the 3 position (K9 handler, officer with rifle, me) so I holstered my weapon to be hands man as the dog was released. We follow the dog in through the broken wooden gate, and I feel a hard pull on my right side. Reach down to check my weapon and the entire holster is gone. In this situation, it wasn't the end of the world as there were other officers covering, but Im sure folks can imagine other situations where that could be very bad.

Afterwards, I examined the holster to try and find out what had happened. The holster was still connected to the RTI wheel, and that entire package had come off of the holster hanger on my belt. These pieces were not broke, flexed, or damaged in any way, but all of the hardware was gone. I looked in the grass and couldn't find them anywhere. I do not know if they all stripped or what, but somehow all 5 of those screws failed at once from the holster hanging up on the fence. Note that I regularly check my gear, which includes loctiteing(?) and checking the screws on my holster and taser holster.

Telling the story to other guys, it appears this is more common with G Code than I ever thought. One guy deployed as a marine with the exact same holster I use (XST RTI) and experienced the same failure numerous times leading to a personal purchase safariland. I had a spare set of hardware from G Code, so I repaired it to last until my ALS got in. Once it got in, I was able to replicate the exact same failure by putting a lot of pressure on the barrel edge/bottom of the holster. I can't stress enough how mild of an impact this was, my belt moved a bit on the waist and thats it, but I guess the stress is too much for this design. Basically, if the leading edge or barrel edge of the holster get hung up the RTI wheel is likely to come off.  I could not make it happen with the ALS I now carry.

So there you go, just my experience and warning to folks who use the RTI system. If you have extra hardware, test it for yourself and see if you get different results. I will be sending a link to this thread to G Code as well, but I doubt I will hear a response from them.

I'm no expert. And I don't post to add comments here except recently. But I want to say something about this and what I see as the problem.

1) Thanks for posting your problem...

2) It seems to me that the real problem isn't so much the equipment as much as it is the type of equipment. Today we collectively have a huge fascination with plastic gadgetry. Most of it, by nature can't be any stronger than our best plastic toys.

3) The problem partly stems from a failure to heed to the principle: If its not broken why fix it. As an example, was that equipment that much better than its leather predecessor? Or, would a similar setup be that much better under the same or slightly worse condition?

Maybe I'm wrong, but then again...

I agree to an extent. Is modern polymer/kydex more durable, consistent, and faster than leather? Yes in my opinion. But, by using the quick detach methods on holsters, we are adding a weak point. I still use one, because it is really convenient to swap the holster to different platforms than to buy another holster for everything. But I think any holster where another QD piece is added is slightly weaker than its non-QD version.

I've seen similar complaints about the rti system and g codes CS in the battle belt thread.

I'll be sticking with the safariland stuff for duty work.

Well that doesn't really make sense, unless I misunderstood the original post. Clearly there's nothing wrong with the RTI itself, as both components remained together during the failure you experienced. What failed, as I understand it from your original post, were literally the nuts and bolts.

If the wheel remained attached to the holster, then QD had nothing to do with it. If the holster had been directly attached to the hanger with the same bolts, in theory the bolts would have failed just the same, right?

Yeah I guess you're right, like I said I haven't used one without the wheel. I think the wheel magnifies the tension on the hardware when the holster is pried somehow, I don't know. Maybe because the RTI wheel requires longer hardware than just holster to hanger attachment? Im not an engineer so I don't know where the problem lies exactly, but I guess G Code's engineers don't either...

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about myself. I'm totally open to the possibility that Safariland uses better hardware.

Is it possible for you to photograph the damage?

Thanks for sharing your experience and very glad that you're ok.

I use my gear for a much less serious role and am a believer in Safariland because of their reputation and long history making this type of equipment. Sure the qls/mls is more bulky than the tacticool rti wheel, but it's brick shit house solid.

Were they actually through bolts with a t-nut style nut or were they wood type screws threaded into the plastic? If they were wood or sheet metal type screws threaded into plastic then I could see that being a very plausible reason for failure, and a very poor design.

Gunna need some pics of what happened.... Maybe a video of you replicating the event.  From the details stated I don't know what you are talking about. How did the bolts fail?  I have used gcode rti holsters for close to a decade with zero failures of any kind. Im in no way implying that it couldn't happen, but just can't understand what happened exactly.

Ive been wanting to comment on G Code for a little while now.

I am currently deployed to AFG with my unit, and through RFI we were issued GCode XST RTI Systems with MOLLE Wheel, Drop Leg, Belt Drop and Belt Loop. These holsters were for M9s and issued to everyone from staff officer sitting in TOCs all day, to infantry PLs/PSGs and joes running PSD details. Out of the 50 that we received, over 20 have had issues.

Most common is that the screws/nuts that hold the RTI Wheel to the user's mount (Belt Drop/Molle mount/dropleg) have backed out and fall out easily. Obviously some guys have locktite in their kits, but the issue wasnt noticed until more than a few guys lost screw hardware. Whats worse, is that as an XO I reached out to G-Code and they didnt want to send any extra screws/nuts to us. I mean for a company that has thousands of dollars in this contract, the least they could do was send us some screws.

Two of my soldiers have cracked the kydex in the Belt Drop, and not from anything strenuous. One just snapped it on a chair.

Three of the XST Systems have failed on the user, rendering the hood either stuck/inop, or freely rotating.

This is only been in 6 months of deployment. I have to say Im less than impressed. I am using a Safariland ALS for my M9 from 2013 and its still going strong. For the amount of talk and reviews I read on GCode, I was excited for my unit to get them, but they seemingly dont seem to hold up to normal duty use. My philosophy is if joe is having issues, its not built well enough. While the locktite thing is solvable, it shouldnt take a fix, much less the other issues weve had

This mirrors my experience as well.  Granted it was about 10 years ago but same problems/issues.  The thing is that when the G-code stuff gets used, it fails.  Those that haven't had issues for the most part are the guys that take pretty pics of their stuff and use it on the range 1x to declare it "awesome".  G-code concept was good, modularity and all, but materials and service sucked.  Go with Safariland....

Cracking in Kydex is usually a sign of overheating in the molding process.

Yes the way it works is the RTI wheel itself is attached to the holster belt hanger via 5 screws that thread into nuts. These 5 screws either sheered or stripped out, causing the RTI wheel with holstered weapon attached to come off.

No video, sorry. Im not the type to post a lot of media and stuff online so never even crossed my mind.  I don't really know how else to explain how the hardware failed… The 5 screws/nuts that hold the RTI wheel to the belt hanger were just flat out gone after the impact. You're guess is as good as mine on how they failed. But because they repeatedly backed out early on when I bought it they had been resecured with loctite and never backed out again... so they had to have stripped or sheered right off. The wheel was on the duty height belt hanger by the way if that helps.

This is another issue entirely that was making me look at a new holster before the incident. Maybe one out of 20-30 draws from the holster the hood freezes/delays after falling about 10 degrees. Any further movement on the pistol/holster would make it drop open entirely, but by that time it had already prevented the pistol from coming out. I kept the little channel with the spring clean and lubed, even tried a small amount of grease in there. Couldn't fix it.

Since bringing up the issue at work, a couple of natl guard guys with several deployments have told similar stories to yours and stories mirroring mine where holsters came off entirely.

I use a Safariland 7Ts while deployed but attach it to the RTI system. I have to recheck my screws on a regular basis since they continually back out. I also had a RTI belt slide loop crack after only about 4 months of use. I would have returned it but I got it on clearance for only $7. After this deployment, I'll be going back to 100% Safariland pure system.

I would love to see a picture of this failure because I sincerely apologize but I can't really fathom it in my mind.

The local sheriff's office issues Safariland exclusively, but usually with the "plastic" hanger. Those hangers break quite often, and get replaced with the leather hangers which do not tend to break (ETA: as easily, anyway). So, anecdotally, plastic hangers from any brand can break.

What stands out to me in this thread is that despite issues with G-codes hangers, screws and holsters, the ONLY thing no one has actually documented failing in this thread is the RTI system itself. It's nothing to me, I just wanted to point that out given the thread title.

Well yes, that is true - the RTI system (wheel with metal attachment plate) have not failed. However, every other part of the product system has (retention hood, drop adapter, attachment method of wheel to anything). So while the RTI interface works, they obviously need to re-look how their screw/T-nut system holds up. It just seems to not tighten up and lock, as opposed to my Safarilands (6004 SLS and an ALS) which use a screw with ratcheting flange which "grips" the plastic when tightened and does not come loose.

A multi-platform system like this is only as good as the quality of the attachment method to transition it, and in this case G-Code definitely fails compared to Safariland for duty use. I was going to go with a G-Code for my Sig 320, but now Im going to stick with tried and true Safariland ALS/SLS.

That sucks. I just spent $200+ on g-code holsters this weekend. I'm not LEO nor military but I wasn't excited to see the 4-6 week lead time, this thread makes me feel worse.

Sorry man, no pictures of the actual failure but I took some pics tonight of the different pieces. Do you have this holster setup? Because I re-read what I have posted and I think it explains it pretty well, maybe the pics will help you though.

This is the duty height belt hanger.

This is the holster attached to the RTI Wheel.

This is the hardware that attaches the RTI wheel to the belt hanger, just screws and t-nuts. All hardware went MIA when the failure happened, this is some of the spare hardware I have.

All pieces next to each other.

This is one of the screw/nut combos used for the replicating we did. My phone camera cannot get detailed enough to show you, but when we were able to duplicate the failure the nuts were stripped out, all but one of the screws looked ok. This one is stripped out, and since then has been buggered up as we tried to get the screw back in for more testing since I have run out of G Code factory hardware.

Also when taking the pictures, I noticed that my belt hanger is also broken, with several hairline fractures running throughout it. Only noticeable when the hanger is flexed. Honestly, I don't know if this happened during the at-work failure or during testing, or heck earlier than that for all I know. Either way, Im not surprised at this point.

I think the title is very accurate, is the hardware they deem acceptable for their product not a part of the system they stand behind? Without the hardware, the RTI "system" doesn't work. So sure, the hardware may be the primary cause for the failure I experienced. But hey, G Code needs to fix it. I really am tempted to buy a new hanger (see my update in photos, mine is done) and go to home depot and buy high quality hardware. I do think that with high quality hardware, the plastic would have had to completely shatter before the rti wheel would have separated from the hanger.

Of course they back out, they are tiny threaded screws and a tiny nut inside a plastic housing mounted at your hips.  If you read the instructions inside the NSN G-code kit, it actually tells you that you have to loctite the screws into the RTI wheel or they will do exactly that.  Im pretty sure all G-code products tell you that.

I find the cant I like, used red loctite on the inside threads, then a dab of epoxy where the screw meets the nut.  Never had a problem since, been using G-code for the past 3 deployments.  Did a lot of running, riding, climbing, etc.  No issues.

I've used the RTI belt mount, drop belt and also a drop belt on my war-belt for several deployments.  Used daily, beat the crap out of it, zero issues.

OF COURSE every screw was secured with Loc-tite.

Not sure why some folks think this problem could be solved with loctite, that wasn't the issue here. But if that works for you then rock on.

As a delayed update, I shipped everything back to g code. All parts were returned and they replaced everything with new products, so good on them. They never told me if anything was out of spec or what, so I think everything was just as they designed it and it failed.

Anyways, I have since switched to safari land and this shiny new g code holster, hanger, and paddle will be available in the EE if anyone is interested.

Mainly because the RTI system comes with a little notice in it telling you to secure it with loctite.  Since doing so I have climbed walls, banged around vehicles, caves, helicopters, etc. without issue even with a weapon three times the size of a pistol clamped to my RTI wheel.

While we're on the topic of anecdotes, here's a present for you.

safariland failures

Nothing is perfect.

Nobody is saying anything is perfect. But does loctite fix the plastic holster hanger that cracked? Seriously, if it works for you then keep on, nobody is telling you to trade in your stuff. Just because it rides in a helicopter doesn't mean it gets the seal of approval from everyone

Using Loctite will prevent the screws and fasteners from loosening and backing out. This, in turn, prevents rattling and flexing and causing undue stress against the hangers and mounts, no matter how small the movement. Using Loctite could have very well prevented cracks and failures like this.

No, but my anecdotal experience is just as good as yours.

Also, like I stated before, when using equipment I trust my life to, I tend to go above and beyond, such as using loctite and also putting a tab of epoxy on the screw heads.  Most of the time I have seen holsters fail it is because of repeated flexing, usually from something like the position it is mounted on your belt versus where you sit in a vehicle every day while wearing it causing it to catch on the seat and flex.  

This can happen easily with the RTI because it sits out a little further from your belt.  It's even more possible with a 2" drop hanger. Most modern quality plastics usually dont just shatter for no reason whatsoever, but they dont like to be flexed out of shape every day.  Just another possible scenario.

If your intent here is to have everyone believe that the G-code is ultimately defective across the board due to your singular situation you may walk away disappointed.



Again, im not sure if youve ever actually taken a look at what happens to any 2" drop adapter when you sit with it while mounted to your pants belt, but the holster gets pushed upwards by chair, hanger gets pushed downwards by body.  That simple physics lesson is why I only wear 2" drops on my battle belt, which I remove before hanging out in a chair, and molle belts have the ability to sit a little higher on my body for vehicle use unlike pants belts.

That was my first deployment lesson years ago. If it moves mechanically, in Iraq/Afghanistan it will soon stop.  I had a safariland in 2007 that gunked up the mechanism regularly to where the hood would stick.  Water and Q-tips usually solved it for a while.

Now that I'm mostly Glock it doesn't matter as much to me now, but are there any other options for high-quality quick release holsters? My G-Code stuff will likely either get sold or relegated to competition use. 

I've been using Safariland over the years and I've now mostly converted to them for any serious use, but my battle belt had RTI for simplicity. Time to change that 

ETA: How is Safariland's proprietary system? I don't have any experience with it but I just received a holster with it. 

Sounds similar to what the OP is describing, note that only three of five retaining bolts remain (in addition to the cracking):






Also, cracked light cowl that would then allow the pistol to be removed from the holster without deactivating the retention, and just slipped/canted out the bottom:






To be fair, G-Code was very good about sending me replacement parts to an APO and taking care of my needs, and the RTI retention itself never failed--I was a big fan of the modular system as well, but ultimately, G-Code just did not work for my needs, and I have since returned to Safariland.

Others have, of course, reported good experiences with G-Code--FWIW, I would agree with @daemon734 that holsters don't like having to do a lot of flex on a day to day basis--and I think that time spent in vehicles, many of them smaller Hiluxes and Rangers, rather than armored vehicles, had a lot to do with the continued failures of my G-Codes--the polymer is much thinner and seems more brittle than the Safarilands, and sitting in a seat, especially a "car" seat with the sides contoured to fit your butt, but not your holster, can put a lot of pressure on an attachment if done on a regular basis.  

~Augee

I went ahead and ordered a couple of Safariland QLS hangers to try out. If they suck I'll just mount my holsters permanently. 

All five screws and nuts stripped out at once with minimal force? And you used threadlocker? A video would be really helpful to replicate the problem.

Augee,

Are these by chance G-Code/Eagle items purchased through Natchez? I know some of those old contract items weren't the best quality. Your items look older than what G-Code is currently putting out.

The parts in the photographs were all from G-Code direct, though I did get some MOLLE accessories from Natchez that I never really ended up having a use for--the SOC cowling had to be made-to-order for the Surefire X300 + MR11 for the M9, IIRC.  

That being said, those photographs and my experience dates from the 2012-13 timeframe, so they are older production items, if G-Code has changed/upgraded/updated their parts, I wouldn't really know about it, but I could believe it, and I took these photographs for G-Code and sent them to them as examples of the failures I was experiencing and to get warranty service.  FWIW, as I mentioned, their CS was very good and expedited shipping for my replacement parts, though I never ended up getting the cowling--but given the vagaries of shipping to APOs, I give them the benefit of the doubt that it shipped, just never got to me.  

I was able to tape up the cowling well enough for it to continue to function, and actually ended up using the holster for a good while after until I was able to track down a Multicam covered Safariland that will support that combination.  

~Augee

I've been using the QLS stuff for a bit now and I'm sold.  I like being able to switch between light/no light holsters.

I received my hangers and so far I'm pleased, they lock up really tight and feel sturdier than the RTI stuff. I'll know more once I have them mounted and in use.